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Now in modern times all over the world gayness is being considered normal by the scientific communities and the other wisemen of society.

Gayness used to be considered a disease or a sin but that is now changing, but should it? The obvious argument is that they can form committed relationships therefore there is nothing wrong with their choice. There is dishonesty in that claim. Homosexuals can only form committed relationships under one circumstance. They can only survive if society does what it is currently doing. As long as gays do not have to worry about ideas like children needing fathers and mothers or the diseases caused by those acts, they can seem to have a certain level of sanity.

But that is where the problem lies. Gays want so much to be human and this has led to suicides, drug use, murders, atheism, parades and many other acts of debauchery. If gays are forced to accept the reality that the relationship between a child and a mother is a sacred thing and far more worth protecting than the relationship between two random men, this disease will manifest itself.

At this moment in time some gays can survive without drugs or illicit behavior because they are not being inundated with the errors of their ways. Society at large does not promote the family it promotes wealth and sexuality, so a homosexual says, “I can do that, if that’s humanity I’m there!” There is one problem, wealth and sexuality is not the definition of humanity. If a gay person was forced to accept that civilized society has to be built on the human family their emotional disorders would then become apparent. If all homosexuals ever saw were fathers running around with their children and mothers feeding and clothing and hugging, the gay psyche would be utterly destroyed, the gay mind would become disconsolate, but on the upside we could then invite them to church. Amen.

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Unfortunately ... it is the church that promotes the idea that Gays are not worthy of being in our churches. Sadly they are treated as second class citizens and not allowed to even hold offices in some of our churches.

We so much like to judge. But we are ALL sinners saved by Grace.
Wow. I knew you were good. But this one is a gem. Way to go Gabriel. Way to go ...
There is none good but God...
I would personally not be at all shocked... as long as this person wasn't living in sin while preaching God's message. As I recall Paul was not an assassin when he started preaching.
Paul thought he was doing the will of God by working to exterminate Christians. That was a sign of zeal. "Concerning zeal, persecuting the church", (Philip. 3:6). That was nothing like homosexuality. But still he was not doing this when he started preaching the Gospel. He stopped doing this, and trained for 3 years, and then started preaching.
I completely agree with you, Travis. I personally know, and have communicated with, one SDA pastor who lived the gay lifestyle for something like 15 years. He has written a book under an assumed name about his experience, and about how God helped him leave that life. We have interviewed him on a different SDA forum.

So it does happen.

The reason it does not happen more often is that most gays today are told even by "Christians" that there is nothing wrong with practicing homosexuality. Another reason is that they are given the impression that God can't really help them stop committing that sin. So they figure that God will simply have to save them IN their sins. They don't believe God CAN deliver them from it.

Also, our sexuality is so deeply and profoundly a part of who we are and how we think about everything, the devil really takes advantage of this almost overwhelming pull. He knows what makes us "tick."

For homosexuals to give up that part of themselves would be about like asking heterosexuals to stop being heterosexual. This is not an exaggeration.

Some people who used to live the gay lifestyle (i.e., sexual relations, etc.) still consider themselves "gay," because they recognize they still think and feel "gay" in many ways, even though they may be beyond the sexual aspects of it.

God does not always "cure" a gay person. What usually happens is that God is with us in our temptations and trials, but He rarely removes the temptations themselves or makes us change overnight. That does happen but it is apparently relatively rare. Most homosexuals and bisexuals struggle against it for years, but unfortunately they usually give up and commit themselves to that life. I came within an inch of doing that myself.

One reason I think that is, is that we appreciate things more when we struggle for them, and we also come to realize more deeply the evil that is in our hearts.

The more we struggle against sin, the more we can appreciate the necessity of having the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ in our lives. Personally I am well aware of this every moment I'm awake, because I have a constant pull, or reminder, of what I am apart from my Savior. If He wasn't Master of my life, I would be right now a slave to homosexuality and many other sins.

The only reason I write about it is to let people know that 1 Cor. 6: 9-11 is a reality, even today, in 2009. God delivers on His promises of power not only to resist and overcome but to come off victorious through Jesus His Son. There truly is power in the blood.
Thanks, Jany. I will look it up.

Because I only sign in on Friday nights, I have not the time to read the entire threads. Sorry for being redundant. I just hate it when the discussions start getting "angry", so I try to diffuse them.

Happy Sabbath!
Hi Esther,

I just saw your post. It's just before I leave to go to church, but today after church I'll be glad to give you some of my thoughts about how we might reach people in the gay community.

I'm not active in the gay community or in outreach to them because frankly I don't trust myself to spend that much time with gays or to associate closely with them. It's only been a few years since I left it and I know how weak I am. It is deadly to put much faith in ourselves. I did that once about 10 years ago, and I fell back after a short time of being out of it. My problem then was that I didn't want completely out, just out "mostly."

I have known of other so-called "former gays" who fell back for the same reason. They started thinking they were strong and could do it on their own, and they sunk just like Peter.

So while I won't go among the gay community right now, I do plan on it some day. And I will be very glad to talk about how gays can be helped. Just give me a few hours. And thank you, Esther, for asking!!!
Good point Gabe. If we are really converted ... we don't go back to those old habits.

"In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning". Signs of the Times, Mar 3, 1898

"When we know God as it is our privilege to know Him, our life will be a life of continual obedience. Through an appreciation of the character of Christ, through communion with God, sin will become hateful to us." --DA, p 668

" When the Father gave His Son to live and die for man, He placed all the treasures of heaven at our disposal. There is no excuse for sin. God has given us all the advantages He possibly could give, that we may have strength to withstand the temptations of the enemy." TDG 318

"So long as we are united to Him by faith, sin has no more dominion over us. God reaches for the hand of faith in us to attain to perfection of character." The Desire of Ages, 123
4 Him,

I remember your telling me a number of times that you practice deliberate, willful sin and don't plan to stop practicing deliberate, willful sin. "Practicing deliberate, willful sin" is the same as habitual sin.

I agree that if we are really converted and stay converted, we don't go back into those old sinful habits we had. But that is just the point. Converted people can and do slip back for a time but if they are truly converted they won't stay back in those old sins. 1 John 3: 9 says a person with God's seed, or nature, in him won't be able to keep doing those sins.

Truly converted people can fall away from Christ and ultimately lose their salvation. "Baby Christians," or people who have just started on their walk with Christ, sometimes fall back. They may "wander" away for a short time. But on the other hand, many people will have their names blotted out of the book of life, and will have to take responsibility finally for all the sins they asked forgiveness for. Why? Because their lives will show that they decided they would rather have sin than Jesus Christ. So God allows them to have their choice.

If we find ourselves back in those habitual "old" sins, we need to re-examine ourselves whether we are really in the faith. We need to get right with Jesus, confess those sins, and ask God for power to resist and overcome them, not just give into them.

I totally agree with your quotes here. Of course God gives us strength to withstand the temptations.

You have been telling me for years now that you don't think it's necessary to overcome sin in our lives.

Do you agree with those quotes? You seem to quote things but then say things that contradict them.

It is true that in order to Jesus to take full possession of our hearts and minds, we must stop sinning. I agree with that. Do you?
Your post about me is a complete fabrication and a lie. Please do not slander me.
Gabriel,

Yes, you are right that some "former gays" do keep moving forward. It helps to have support and prayer from other Christians.

Maybe you didn't read what I wrote in my previous post. I said that many times people fall back into sin because they didn't completely die to sin. They wanted to hold on to some sins. If we find ourselves wanting to hold onto to even one sin in our life, it will eventually trip us up.

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