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It's been awhile since I have posted, and much has happened in that time. God has shown me so much of our filth and guilt. The SDA church claims to have come out of Babylon, while the rest of the Body is still in confusion, yet I ask, is She really?

There are still Tammuz trees in the sanctuary every December. It is acknowledged that Christ wasn't born on the 25th, which is actually the birthday of several pagan gods that we inherited from catholicism, but it is never taught that He was most likely born during the Feast of Tabernacles, which is literally about God dwelling with mankind.

Every easter, which is literally a transliteration of the name of a pagan goddess of fertility and another inherited tradition from catholicism, there is an easter program, that while it may not take place on sunday, still recognizes the solemnity of the day, while never truly acknowledging that fact that Christ was literally the Passover Lamb and was crucified on that day, as well as raised on First fruits.

Christ is called Jesus, which is an amalgamation of the Greek word GE, (there was no letter J until the 1500's), which means earth, and the Latin word SUS, which means pig or swine. This speaks directly to Antiochus Epiphanes and the pig he sacrificed in the temple during the Maccabean era. Put together, the name means earth pig, instead of His given name Yashua, which literally means YHVH is Salvation. Again, another inherited tradition from catholicism.

The very word "church" comes from the Greek word CIRCE, which refers to an ancient sorceress who deceived people. She was the daughter of the sun. THE DAUGHTER OF THE SUN! She was a harlot who changed men into pigs. In the Greek of the New Testament, the Body of Christ is called the Ecclesia, (which means the gathering of people) not the church\circe, (which is where we get the word circle, as in circle of the sun) even though the word existed, because the writers knew what that word represented. That word in reference to the Body, also came from catholicism. 

These are just a few examples of many, so i must ask honestly, have we truly came out of Babylon? I encourage everyone reading this to do your own research and don't take my word for it. It's not even that hard to find. I advice you to look in encyclopedias and books about etymology (the study of words and their origins), so you can avoid any biased information towards or against what I have been led to share. Be blessed and happy studying. 

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Is Christmas pagan, Christian or just convenient?

Roman, early Christian history reveal roots of December 25 celebration


Is the celebration of Christmas on December 25 really a pagan custom that early Christians borrowed?

Atheists often mock Christians for celebrating a "pagan" festival and some Christians decline to celebrate Christmas, while others argue that regardless of its origins, Christmas is a good evangelistic opportunity. Who is right?

To answer that question we need to go to North Africa at the end of the 3rd Century.

In AD 284, Diocletian became emperor. Under his rule, the early Christian church suffered some of the harshest persecution in its history. Many Christians, including some church leaders, renounced their faith in the face of persecution. Later, with the abdication of Diocletian, persecution stopped in the West and Christians returned to a life of peace and security. This left one problem: should those Christians who gave up their faith under duress be allowed back? Could the leaders who left be allowed to take office again?

Following their Savior's example, the church said "yes," giving them the chance to start over.

In North Africa, however, there was a movement in the church that rejected this idea. There, Christians believed that if members who'd turned their back on their faith were allowed back, it would contaminate the church. They were concerned with the purity of the church and wanted to avoid any pagan influences. This group became known as the "Donatists," named after their leader Donatus.

What does this have to do with Christmas? The Donatists celebrated the birth of Jesus on December 25. This group, who were studious in their avoidance of anything that even resembled compromise with the world or hint of paganism, was following an old tradition of remembering the birth of Jesus on the same date most Christians still celebrate today.

So where did some get the idea that celebrating on December 25 has pagan roots?

Some claim Christians borrowed the day from those who celebrated the winter solstice. But the solstice is actually a few days earlier than Christmas. Some suggest that it's because of the Saturnalia festival, but that runs from December 17 to 23.

Others claim it corresponds with sun worship, citing the festival of "Sol Invictus" (Unconquered Sun) that Emperor Aurelian instituted on December 25 in AD 274. However, upon closer examination, this was not a traditional day of sun worship. The two sun temples in Rome celebrated their feasts on August 9 and 28, and even that had fallen into neglect by the time of Aurelian. By then, the new sun god Mithras was growing popular.

Although long thought of as a development of eastern sun worship, historians now believe Mithras worship to be a Roman invention -- a cult created by and for the imperial bureaucracy. But even Mithras did not have any feasts associated with solstices or equinoxes until a hundred years later.

So it appears that Aurelian, who was hostile to Christianity, picked a date with no pagan sun worship and created one. Why? Some suggest that he was trying to create a pagan alternative to another festival on that day to help unite his empire. That other festival was the celebration of Jesus' birth. In fact, in spite of Aurelian's declaration, there is no record of celebrating Sol Invictus on December 25 until AD 354/362, much later than the Christian celebration in Africa and elsewhere.

It was only in the 17th and 18th Centuries that secular enlightenment scholars started to suggest that Christianity had borrowed the date of Christmas from pagans.

Yet this leads to another problem. We know from the accounts of Jesus' birth in the gospels that it was unlikely he was born in December, so why had the church chosen to celebrate it then?

The answer is twofold: the date of Jesus' death, and Jewish tradition. For early Christians, celebrating the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus was very important. The church worked hard to determine the date of this events, a calculation made more difficult by having to work out which year it was, and which calendar to use -- Jewish or Roman. After much research, the church in the West and Africa settled on March 25 as the date of Jesus' crucifixion.

This was important in determining the date of Jesus' birth because in Jewish tradition it was thought that prophets died on the same day as they were born. This idea may seem strange to us, but was understood and accepted by the early church. Jesus was different from the prophets, however -- his life didn't start at his birth, rather it began when the angel spoke to Mary. This is why early Christians celebrated the annunciation (or announcement to Mary that she was carrying the child) on March 25. Add nine months of pregnancy and you arrive at a birth date of December 25.

Today, we know Jesus wasn't born on Christmas day, but the church choose to celebrate it on this day. Even though they didn't know the real date of Jesus' birth, early Christians -- following Jewish traditions -- choose a date to celebrate the fact God loved the world enough to send his Son as a baby.

This date had no connection to pagan gods or ideas -- these were invented years later.

So how should Seventh-day Adventists respond to Christmas? First, we should understand that it is not a pagan festival "borrowed" by Christians. Rather, it is a very early Christian memorial. Second, we should focus our attention on the event it celebrates and witness to the world about our Savior. Finally, following the example of Adventist Church co-founder, Ellen G. White, we can use this opportunity to respond to the needs of the world around us.

--Andrew Willis is a course tutor at the Adventist Discovery Centre, the Voice of Prophecy in the United Kingdom. Reprinted with permission from British Union Conference News.

Respectfully, it would be much more beneficial to study from unbiased sources. Using an Adventists article to prove that Christmas isn't pagan, is like a catholic using a catechism to prove why sunday is the Lord's day. 

Charlie, my brother, 

When one reads an excerpt from some an Adventist tutor advocating for Adventist adherents like yourself to celebrate Christmas, because there is nothing pagan about it, and although they don't know what they they just go along with everyone else and use it "to tell about Jesus", brother well you know that some of your members real far gone - they get soft. Just to point out every year, Jesus never gets old you know - he is always a baby. Every year, saint Nicholas is highly regard. According to Luke, Mary became pregnant after she came from spending time with Elizabeth. It is not pagan, but it call for one of the main elements of pagan festives - making merry, eating an drinking to one's heart content. Is the poor really of a concern, or is it the fact that year on year, at that time, people just give a morsel to show they have some semblance o care? Do they consider the poor and destitute after the 25th Dec? Finally, did the Donatists just start celebrating on December 25th just so? From whom did they learn that, or who gave them that instruction? 

Let's educate and get this thing right folks. Jesus was not a baby when the wise men came. They didn't arrive in December; As far it is no known, Jesus' posse and their followers never celebrate their Boss's birth. And if folks argue that they following Jesus example but doing opposite then they are lying no? Why not tell and point others back to God just like Jesus did that that they would be an excuse for you to take part in the Christmas celebration? And on a point of order, is Mrs. White, Jehovah or Jesus Christ? So,why are you taking instructions from her? 

Yes, Garth Typical response is it not? True Jesus is not a Baby and I do not think anyone was suggesting this. The Point is that for the world at large we find two openings to give the message about Jesus, Christmas and Easter. You do not like EGW that is plain as the nose on your face, but for us who have some respect for her, it is good advice. Most SDA knows that Christ was not born December 25 but they do grasp the opening for sharing Jesus at that season. No one would be lying why would they? I think the biggest liar around here is those who treat the Bible as a thing you can select verses to suit your own arguments and not caring about other verses speak against you.

  

Greetings Elijah 

Thank you for your response, and to rebut your statement, permit me to ask this fear question how many Adventist in your circle do you know of that come out of their house on that day to go house to house and have a talk about God? For Jesus came to point/direct mankind back to God. 

On the other hand, I can deal with any biblical segments presented. I do not believe in taking a piece of verse and attempting to justify it with another verse. one can create a distorted picture and miss the beauty of the book.

On the other hand,  think the presenter of this tread is posing some serious questions that should make many of us think, are we really heaven ready. When Jehovah says it is time to reign things in are we ready? Would anyone of us be in the first resurrection?

Garth do you know why Jesus came ? What text are you using to prove that he solely came to point mankind back to God? 

You said you did not believe in taking a verse and attempting to justify it with another verse ? What are you saying here? Do you understand how doctrines are deduced from the Bible?

What serious question has the presenter of this thread provided? Has he used any Bible verse to substantiate his claims ? What facts has he presented? He is simply regurgitating what he read on some websites or simply concocting things. How do you know whether what he said is Truth? And, furthermore is there any merit in what he is saying? He doesn't even understand the basic doctrines of the Bible and salvation...

According to the bible how do we get ready for Jesus/Jehovah return ? 

Thank you for your reply Garth, It is clear to me already that you have a strange understanding of what the Bible says and how you build doctrines in conformity with the Bible. If you look at the28 fundamentals of the SDAC you will find how you build a doctrine. Not the way you were doing just getting one verse and build your ideas on that even when you were shown that what you had done was not in keeping with the other parts of the Bible. With regards to the Beauty of the Bible, I would think it would be more Beautiful as a harmonious whole, where everything fits together. I am not too sure what the presenter of this thread has in mind apart from finger pointing.

Greeting brethren,

Jason I know why Jesus came, and it is for the sole purpose of reconciling us to the one who sent Him, Jehovah. Thus, Jesus came to point mankind, or lead mankind to return to the Almighty, so that in so doing they can be save from the Almighty Jehovah's wrath to come. Did not a biblical author said that He sent His Son to mankind that while they were living how they desire, He was reconciling them through His Son. And did we no read from another Biblical author who shared with us that when Jesus said it  was finish that the veil in the temple was split in half?

On the other hand, what is doctrines? Man's interpretation of a particular verse and which is hold among the body of that particular adherent? No my argument to you is to look for the appreciation/understanding of the vers/biblical segment in the context of the chapter or book it was taken from. For many at times many miss the purpose or intent of what the author is attempting to convey or what the author is attempting to say what God is saying.

On the other hand, yes the presenter has some merit to the arguments he posit. I can add to it, but the salvation of many is more important. So let it be as it is.

So how are we reconciled to God. Is it through the death of Jesus? If it is, will all then be saved? And why did John the Baptist and Jesus both started their ministry with Repent...?  

Yes, we are reconciled to God, because of Jesus death; however, one has to accept that fact and make the choice to turn to and have a relationship with God. If that individual doesn't then he or she would face the consequence of their action at the second judgement. God even showed Jesus that when He decides to close up shop on this planet, and He begins to reign judgement via His angels and through the plagues that would descend on the unrepentant, He would still reach out to them, but they would still refuse Him. Thus, making it clear that God is just.

John and Jesus begun with repent for they came to turn the people life back to God. I believe the biblical authors presented it correct when they said Jesus presented the good news about God's kingdom.

And how do we have a relationship with the Father according to the bible? 

GE -SYS  :This way ofexplaining the name of Christ is plain nonsense !

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