Adventist Online

Peace

 Brothers and sisters of the SDA movement, this post is to show that the teaching within the Church that GOD'S Holy set times are done away with is wrong. Teaching the annual Holy Days of GOD are done away with weakens some our reasoning on why we should observe the 7th Day Sabbath. Let me show you how.

 When SDA teach about the 7th Day Sabbath, we use several reasoning methods to show that the 7th Day Sabbath is not done away with as many Christians believe. 

 One of them is, it was Jesus' custom  to observed the 7th Sabbath, and we should do what Jesus did, He is our example. For me, this is the most powerful proof that the 7th Day Sabbath is not done away with... I never heard anyone say there are things Jesus did that we shouldn't do, I always heard if Jesus did it, we should do it. 

 However, when it comes to applying that same reasoning to the annual Holy Days of GOD, that's not good enough for many in the SDA Church on why we should observe them. To me that's illegal reasoning, because you can't apply a reasoning point to one subject (the 7th Day Sabbath) and not use or ignore that same point on another subject (the annual Holy Days) that's within the same context, GOD'S Holy appointed times. 

 Whatever Jesus did, we should do. I don't believe anyone here will dispute this. 

 

 EGW: "The example of Christ is authoritative for every son and daughter of Adam.He represented the law of God in His life, giving to men an example of what obedience to every precept will accomplish for human nature. He is our example, and every one who is endowed with reasoning faculties is required to follow in His footsteps; for His life is a perfect pattern to all humanity. Christ is the finished standard of the character to which every one may attain. . . ." SD p.137

 

 With that said, let's ask ourselves, did Jesus observe the annual Holy Days of GOD along with the 7th Day Sabbath.. The answer is Yes! 

 


EGW: [Passover]-- " In the days of Christ the people had grown cold and formal in their service to God. They thought more of their own pleasure than of His goodness to them. But it was not so with Jesus. He loved to think about God. As He came to the temple, He watched the priests in their work. He bowed with the worshipers as they knelt to pray, and His voice joined in the songs of praise." SJ p.31

EGW: "Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm-trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days. And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute forever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month. Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: that your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." It was to the celebration of this feast that Jesus came. RH July 7,1896

 When teaching about the 7th Day Sabbath, and Jesus observing the Holy day, for me it's a slam dunk reason on why we should observe the Sabbath. Again, I never heard anyone say there are things that Jesus did that we shouldn't do. I always heard if Jesus did it, then it's good for us to do.

  


Lets look after the cross, is GOD'S people observing the Holy feast days of GOD? Lets look at Luke, Paul and converts, which were mostly gentiles

 
EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390

  Luke, Paul and his Phillippian converts kept the whole eight days of the feast. If I'm not mistaken, this is about 20 something years after Jesus' death and resurrection. 

 Their actions is positive proof that the annual Holy Days of GOD were still being kept by Christian Jews and Gentiles. Again, this is the same reasoning towards the 7th Day Sabbath, 

 

Joe Crews: "In Acts 16:13 we have positive proof that Paul kept the Sabbath even when there was no synagogue and no Jews. He was ministering in Greece, where there were only a few scattered Jews and no synagogue at all. What did he do on the Sabbath? “And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spoke unto the women which resorted thither.”
Even with no church to attend, the apostle sought out a spot where religious worship was carried on—a place of prayer by the river—and preached to those who went there. Surely, no one can fail to discern Paul’s deep commitment to the Sabbath as we follow him in this unusual outdoor mission. Just suppose this Macedonian experience had taken place on the first day of the week instead of the Sabbath. Without question, it would be cited as absolute evidence for Sunday worship, and we would have to concur. But what possible arguments can one present against this example of Paul in true Sabbath keeping."

 Let's get some commentary from Steve Wohlberg Of White horse media, it's the tenth reason on why The Sabbath is not just for the Jewish people.


Steve Wohlberg (White horse media) wrote: " 10) Luke was a Gentile who kept the Sabbath. Luke was the only Gentile who wrote any New Testament books (he wrote The Gospel According to St. Luke and The Acts of the Apostles). Luke traveled with Paul and wrote, “On the Sabbath we went out of the city by a river side.” Acts 16:13. It was the seventh-day Sabbath, the memorial of the creation (see Ex. 20:11). Both Luke and Paul knew it."

 Applying that same reasoning, which is a good reasoning to use for SDA to use when teaching why we should be still observing the 7th Day Sabbath, it is one of the reasons that led me to understanding the Sabbath truth, because like people say, actions speaks louder than words... Taking that same reasoning and applying it to the annual Holy Days of GOD must be good too.

 EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390

 Surly no one should believe they were sacrificing animals during this Passover celebration, so the argument that if we want to observe the annual Holy Days we must sacrifice animals, that holds no weight.

 Those who say we must be in Jerusalem to properly observe the annual Holy Days of GOD, that holds no weight. They were in Phillippi, not Jerusalem.  These are points of view that many SDA hold, because it's being taught by our teachers. 

 I highly respect Doug Batchelor, probably the most recognized SDA today.. I heard him teach on why Christians are not obligated to observe the annual Holy Days of GOD... some of them are, The Ten Commandments are written on stone, and annual Holy Days are written on paper, another one is, The Ten Commandments are inside the Ark and the commandments about the annual Holy Days are on the side of the Ark.. None of that holds any weight, because SDA fully understand that there are commandments written on that paper and put on the side of the Ark that we say are still binding, like the health laws.

 

 

Doug Batchelor: "2. Why did God give health principles to His people?
"The Lord commanded us to observe all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that He might preserve us alive” (Deuteronomy 6:24).
“You shall serve the Lord your God, and He will bless your bread and your water. And I will take sickness away from the midst of you” (Exodus 23:25).

Answer: God gave health principles because He knows what is best for the human body. Automobile manufacturers place an operations manual in the glove compartment of each new car because they know what is best for their creation. God, who made our bodies, also has an “operations manual.” It is the Bible. Ignoring God’s “operations manual” often results in disease, twisted thinking, and burned-out lives, just as abusing a car can result in serious car trouble. Following God’s principles results in “saving health” (Psalm 67:2 KJV) and more abundant life (John 10:10). With our cooperation, God can use these great health laws to significantly reduce and eliminate the effects of the diseases of Satan (Psalm 103:2, 3)."

  The argument that the annual Holy Days of GOD are done away with because they are written on paper and on the side of the Ark, and at the same time saying laws (health) written on the same paper and placed on the side of the Ark are still binding shows that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. We have to properly identify what is the moral laws and what was ceremonial temple worship laws (the bath water).  We find that out by the actions of Jesus and the Apostles. Again, Jesus observed the annual Holy Days of GOD, so without a doubt we can say they are moral.

 EGW: "In consequence of continual transgression, the moral law was repeated in awful grandeur from Sinai. Christ gave to Moses religious precepts which were to govern the everyday life. These statutes were explicitly given to guard the ten commandments. They were not shadowy types to pass away with the death of Christ. They were to be binding upon man in every age as long as time should last. These commands were enforced by the power of the moral law, and they clearly and definitely explained that law. "–  RH May 6, 1875 

 The term ceremonial feast days is used often, but the term is not used nowhere in the Bible or SOP in the writings of EGW. But unfortunately many SDA use the term to strengthen their argument on why we shouldn't observe the annual Holy Days. Of course when we hear ceremonial, we automatically know the ceremonial laws was done away with at the Cross. So ceremonial is attached to the annual Holy Days. There were ceremonies done on all of GOD'S Holy Days including the 7th Day Sabbath , but the day itself is not a ceremony. 

 

 Where does this teaching come from? Who takes responsibility for trying to change GOD'S annual Holy Days? It's the same people who thinks to change times and laws, the Roman Catholic Church!

 

Daniel 7:25 (King James Version)
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


 Most SDA know this verse, and we mainly apply it to the Sabbath, but it's talking about the Feast days as well... Lets go to several other translations of the Bible... It sheds more light on what these "times"(Plural) are..


Daniel 7:25 (Amplified Bible)
"And he shall speak words against the Most High [God] and shall wear out the saints of the Most High and think to change the time [of sacred feasts and holy days] and the law; and the saints shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time [three and one-half years].


Daniel 7:25 (New Living Translation)
"He will defy the Most High and oppress the holy people of the Most High. He will try to change their sacred festivals and laws, and they will be placed under his control for a time, times, and half a time.


Dan. 7:25 (New American Bible)

"He shall speak against the Most High and oppress the holy ones of the Most High, thinking to change the feast days and the law. They shall be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time


Daniel 7:25Christian Standard Bible (CSB)

25 He will speak words against the Most High and oppress[a] the holy ones of the Most High. He will intend to change religious festivals and laws, and the holy ones will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time.


Daniel 7:25 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

25 He will speak against the Most High God, oppress the holy people of the Most High, and plan to change the appointed times and laws. The holy people will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half of a time.

Daniel 7:25Good News Translation (GNT)

25 He will speak against the Supreme God and oppress God's people. He will try to change their religious laws and festivals, and God's people will be under his power for three and a half years.


Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

25 He will speak words against the Most High and oppress[a] the holy ones of the Most High. He will intend to change religious festivals[b] and laws, and the holy ones will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time

   AT Jones gives a History lesson in the book Great empires of Prophecy, he said


"From Rome there came now another addition to the sunworshipping apostasy. The first Christians being mostly Jews, continued to celebrate, in remembrance of the death of Christ, the true Passover; and this was continued among those who from among the Gentles had turned to Christ. Accordingly, the celebration was always on the Passover day, the fourteenth of the first month. Rome, however, and from her all the West, adopted the day of the sun as the day of this coloration. According to the Eastern custom, the celebration, being on the fourteenth day of the month, would of course fall on different days of the week as the years resolved. The rule of Rome was that the celebration must always be on a Sunday." (Great Empires of Prophecy, 1898, p. 389 by A.T. Jones)

 At SDA crusades we like to show the Roman Catholic Church speaking these words against The Most High, and admitting they are the reason for this attempted change. Let see,

 For 25 Years Father Enright Offers $1,000 For A Bible Verse Commanding Sunday Observance:

“Dear Friend, I have
offered and still offer $1000 to any one who can prove to me from
the Bible alone that I am bound, under grievous sin to keep
Sunday holy. It was the Catholic Church which made the law
obliging us to keep Sunday holy. The church made this law long
after the Bible was written. Hence said law is not in the Bible.
Christ, our Lord empowered his church to make laws binding in
conscience. He said to his apostles and their lawful sucessors in
the priesthood “Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be
binding in heaven.” Matthew 16:19. Matthew 18:17. Luke 16:19.
The Cath. Church abolished not only the Sabbath, but all the other Jewish festivals. Pray and study. I shall be always glad to help you as long as you honestly seek the truth. Respectfully, T.
Enright CSSR.” June 1905

  It's not just the 7th Day Sabbath people of GOD, they take credit for trying to abolish the annual Holy Days of GOD too. Let's check out some more..

 This from the Catholic Catechism, by Peter Cardinal Gasparri, translated by the Rev. Hugh Pope, O.P., second printing, copyright 1932 and printed by P. J. Kenedy & Sons, Typographi Pontificii, 12 Barclay Street, New York, questions 203-206, pages 120-121.


(204) What were the festival days in the Old Testament?

In the Old Testament there were many festival days, but the chief one was the Sabbath, the very name of which signifies the rest needful for the worship of God, whence it is called "the day of rest."


"(205) Why is the Sabbath day not observed under the New Testament?

The Sabbath day is not observed under the New Testament, because in its place the Church keeps Sunday in honor of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the coming down of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost; the Church also adds other festival days.

(206) To what, then, are we bound nowadays as regards keeping festival days holy?

As regards keeping festival days holy we are to-day bound to sanctify, in the manner proscribed by the Church, the Sundays and other Feast days appointed by her."

   This is from the Catechism of Pope Pius X:

2 Q. What are festivals?

A. In the Old Law they were Saturdays and certain other days regarded as specially solemn by the Jews; in the New Law they are Sundays and other festivals instituted by the Church

 Again, we know these statements all to well, however this shows it wasn't just the 7th Day Sabbath trying to be done away with by the Catholic Church, but the annual Holy Days of GOD as well. 

   After Paul's time, we see from the facts of history that this battle continued, there were Christians that were Gentiles like Polycrates that observed the annual Holy time of GOD when HE said to observe it, and not listen to the Catholic Church. 

 Polycrates wrote:  "We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man' --- (Eusebius. Church History, Book V, Chapter 24. Translated by Arthur Cushman McGiffert. Excerpted from Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series Two, Volume 1. Edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace. American Edition, 1890. Online Edition Copyright © 2004 by K. Knight; also Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book 5, Chapter XXIV. Digireads.com, 2005, p. 115).

  He covered from the Apostles to his time, and all observed the Passover on the day that GOD prescribed, the 14th day of the first month. 

 So the question many SDA have to ask themselves is, why are we taking the side of the Catholic Church in regards to the annual Holy Days of GOD and saying they are done away with, and not the side of Jesus, the apostles, and the early Christian church who continued to observed them? 

 

Blessings!

Views: 1422

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Reasoning Said: "One view saying the annual Holy days of GOD ended on the cross and another view saying it's not abolished on the cross. However something being ended means it's abolished, as per Merriam-Webster's, the definition of abolished is - to end the observance or effect of (something, such as a law) : to completely do away with (something)."

Yes, that is one point of view as far as I know Miriam Webster did not write the Bible and some meanings change over time. Let us stay with the Bible and SOP 

As I see it it was not abolished but the Holy Supper made it of no effect and as JohnB puts it, it now just remains a hollow shell. As I understand it, the Holy Supper has taken its place and has more fully embodied salvation and redemption. The central object in the Passover is the sacrificial lamb and you do not perform that ordinance as prescribed, do you? While the central ordinance in the Holy Supper is unleavened bread and wine. This remains so even in our day. 

“The Lord Jesus the same night in which He was betrayed took bread: and when He had given thanks, He brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is My body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of Me. After the same manner also He took the cup, when He had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in My blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of Me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord’s death till He come.” 1 Corinthians 11:23-26. {HLv 439.1}
Christ, the Lamb of God, was about to bring to an end the system of types and ceremonies that for four thousand years had pointed to His death. The Passover, the national festival of the Jews, was to pass away forever. The service which Christ established in its place was to be observed by His followers in all lands and through all ages. {HLv 439.2}
The Passover was ordained as a commemoration of the deliverance of Israel from Egyptian bondage. The Lord’s Supper was given to commemorate the great deliverance wrought out as the result of the death of Christ. This ordinance is the means by which His great work for us is to be kept fresh in our minds. {HLv 439.3}
"The bishops of Rome began, very early, to demand obedience from all the churches. Of this, the dispute between the Eastern and the Western churches respecting Easter is a striking illustration. This dispute arose in the second century. Says Mosheim: “the Christians of this century celebrated anniversary festivals in commemoration of the death and resurrection of Christ. ... The day which was observed as the anniversary of Christ’s death was called the Paschal day, or Passover.” Like the Jews, Christians celebrated “a sacred feast, at which they distributed a paschal lamb in memory of the holy supper.” The Christians of Asia Minor kept this feast on the fourteenth day of the first Jewish month, when the Jews celebrated their Passover, and when Christ is said to have eaten the paschal lamb with his disciples. Three days thereafter, a festival was observed in honor of the resurrection. The Western churches, on the other hand, celebrated the resurrection of Christ on the Sunday following the Jewish Passover, and observed the paschal feast on the night preceding Sunday, thus connecting the commemoration of Christ’s death with that of his resurrection." {GC88 685.4}
God Bless 

Peace 
 


  Ian wrote: "Yes, that is one point of view as far as I know Miriam Webster did not write the Bible and some meanings change over time. Let us stay with the Bible and SOP."

  Oh... So abolished doesn't mean done away with or put to an end now? 


  Ian wrote: "As I see it it was not abolished but the Holy Supper made it of no effect and as JohnB puts it, it now just remains a hollow shell. As I understand it, the Holy Supper has taken its place and has more fully embodied salvation and redemption. The central object in the Passover is the sacrificial lamb and you do not perform that ordinance as prescribed, do you? While the central ordinance in the Holy Supper is unleavened bread and wine. This remains so even in our day. "


  Again, JohnB and most SDA who believes the annual Holy days of GOD no longer need to be observed believe the reason is because they were abolished on the cross. Your belief is just that, yours..  You say circumcision and the observance of the annual Holy days of GOD are in the same class, you believe circumcision wasn't abolished, as well as the annual Holy days of GOD 

  Ian wrote: ".. Compare with circumcision it was not abolished it had just lost its meaning. It was a rite for the children of Abraham in the flesh. But not for the children of Abraham in the Spirit. To me in the same way is the Passover in the same class, it lost its meaning at the Passover when Jesus instituted the Holy Supper, as EGW points out in that quote."

 The thing is circumcision was abolished on the cross, it was done away with, it was put to an end... so on that point your theory holds no weight.  Circumcision was abolished on the cross brother Ian, despite how you read things,

 
 EGW: "There were those in Paul’s day who were constantly dwelling upon circumcision, and they could bring plenty of proof from the Bible to show its obligation on the Jews; but this teaching was of no consequence at this time; for Christ had died upon Calvary’s cross, and circumcision in the flesh could not be of any further value. The typical service and the ceremonies connected with it were abolished at the cross. The great antitypical Lamb of God had become an offering for guilty man, and the shadow ceased in the substance. Paul was seeking to bring the minds of men to the great truth for the time; but these who claimed to be followers of Jesus were wholly absorbed in teaching the tradition of the Jews, and the obligation of circumcision. – {RH May 29, 1888 Par. 10}


 It's amazing that you read this and to you it's not saying circumcision was abolished on the cross... Let's put the microscope on this, here's the first part of the statement

 EGW: "There were those in Paul’s day who were constantly dwelling upon circumcision, and they could bring plenty of proof from the Bible to show it's  obligation on the Jews; .."


 When she says ".. show it's obligation on the the Jews", what do you believe "it's " to be brother Ian?


Of course "it's" is circumcision ... Now let's go to the second part of the statement,


  EGW: "... circumcision in the flesh could not be of any further value. The typical service and the ceremonies connected with it were abolished at the cross."


 She's talking about circumcision, so when she says the typical service and the ceremonies connected with "it", what do you believe "it" is brother Ian? What is she talking about? Circumcision!
 So SOP is saying the typical service and ceremonies connected with circumcision were abolished at the cross.


But you say,


 Ian wrote: "Compare with circumcision it was not abolished it had just lost its meaning..,"


 Again, most SDA believe circumcision was abolished on the cross, and SOP confirms that despite how you interpret things... so within Adventism teachings your view is foreign.

 
  I agree with Adventism (SOP) teaching that circumcision with it's typical service and ceremonies was abolished on the cross. Your circumcision theory and comparing it to the annual Holy days of GOD holds no weight because as we (Ian #1) agree the annual Holy days of GOD was not abolished. Unfortunately your twisting SOP to fit your beliefs.


 Let's see how you understand this statement from SOP,


 EGW: "Now the prophet declares that the stranger who will love and obey God shall enjoy the privileges that have belonged exclusively to the chosen people. Hitherto, circumcision and a strict observance of the ceremonial law had been the conditions upon which Gentiles could be admitted to the congregation of Israel; but these distinctions were to be abolished by the gospel"


 What was abolished by the Gospel brother Ian?   Circumcision and a strict observance of the ceremonial law.


 When EGW says ".. these distinctions..", she is talking about circumcision and a strict observance of the ceremonial law being abolished by the Gospel and the death of Jesus on the cross.

 
 Unfortunately your teaching circumcision was not abolished by the Gospel all to support your theory..  sorry bro, I'm going to believe the SOP on this matter. I can't go with your private interpretations.

 Blessings!

Hi Reasoning

It seems to me we are reading the same words and come up with different answers

EGW: "There were those in Paul’s day who were constantly dwelling upon circumcision, and they could bring plenty of proof from the Bible to show its obligation on the Jews; but this teaching was of no consequence at this time; for Christ had died upon Calvary’s cross, and circumcision in the flesh could not be of any further value. The typical service and the ceremonies connected with it were abolished at the cross. The great antitypical Lamb of God had become an offering for guilty man, and the shadow ceased in the substance. Paul was seeking to bring the minds of men to the great truth for the time; but these who claimed to be followers of Jesus were wholly absorbed in teaching the tradition of the Jews, and the obligation of circumcision. – {RH May 29, 1888 Par. 10}

It says there “The typical service and the ceremonies connected with it were abolished at the cross.”

As I understand that the ceremonies were abolished not the circumcision in the physical sense as Apostle Paul puts it “1Co 7:19  Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.” I do not read it is forbidden to do it and as I understand it just does not mean anything anymore.

I apologize for not being able to make myself clear

God Bless

Peace 

  

    Ian wrote: "I apologize for not being able to make myself clear"

   No need to apologize my brother... because you are very clear, I understand what you are saying. But I'm explaining to you that you are wrong

  Ian wrote: "It says there “The typical service and the ceremonies connected with it were abolished at the cross.”

  Ian, come on bro... What is the context about? Let's read it again,

  EGW: "There were those in Paul’s day who were constantly dwelling upon circumcision, and they could bring plenty of proof from the Bible to show its obligation on the Jews; but this teaching was of no consequence at this time; for Christ had died upon Calvary’s cross, and circumcision in the flesh could not be of any further value. The typical service and the ceremonies connected with it were abolished at the cross. The great antitypical Lamb of God had become an offering for guilty man, and the shadow ceased in the substance. Paul was seeking to bring the minds of men to the great truth for the time; but these who claimed to be followers of Jesus were wholly absorbed in teaching the tradition of the Jews, and the obligation of circumcision. – {RH May 29, 1888 Par. 10}

 So when she says 

  EGW: "The typical service and the ceremonies connected with it were abolished at the cross.”

  The typical service and the ceremonies connect with "it"... "It" is circumcision. That is the context of what SOP in the writings of EGW is talking about in that paragraph Ian.

 It's confirmed here as well,

  EGW: "Now the prophet declares that the stranger who will love and obey God shall enjoy the privileges that have belonged exclusively to the chosen people. Hitherto, circumcision and a strict observance of the ceremonial law had been the conditions upon which Gentiles could be admitted to the congregation of Israel; but these distinctions were to be abolished by the gospel"

  What was abolished by the Gospel brother Ian?  ".., circumcision and a strict observance of the ceremonial law.." 

  Are you going to deny this as well Ian? 

  Ian wrote: "I do not read it is forbidden to do it and as I understand it just does not mean anything anymore.

  Circumcision was abolished, and forbidden if done as a means to Salvation... But the act circumcision is not wrong in itself.

  EGW: "The mere act of circumcision was not in itself inherently wrong. “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing.” Yet it was wrong to trust in this rite as a means of salvation; for this would make of no effect the grace of Christ.

  Blessings!

The sin that is most nearly hopeless and incurable is pride of opinion, self-conceit. This stands in the way of all growth. When a man has defects of character, yet fails of realizing this; when he is so imbued with self-sufficiency that he cannot see his fault, how can he be cleansed? "They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick." Matthew 9:12. How can one improve when he thinks his ways perfect? CCh 46.4

Having once expressed an opinion or decision, they are often too proud to retract it, and try to prove themselves in the right, until they come to believe that they are.  ( DA 323.1)

Peace 

  

   No worries brother Jason, our GOD is a forgiving GOD... Just acknowledge your faults and false teaching and HE will forgive you too. 

  Blessings! 

We don't keep feast days for 3 reasons that have nothing to do with the Catholic Church.

1. There is no priesthood on Earth as required by the OT feasts according to Heb 7 and even Christ Himself "would not be a priest at all if He were on Earth" Heb 8

2. The animal sacrifices that define the liturgy for the feasts ended at the cross Heb 10:4-11  -- so we would have to "make stuff up" for liturgy of each of the feasts without the scripture-defined "sacrifices and offerings" that ended at the cross according to Heb 10.

3. Rom 14 speaks of the Bible-approved annual feast days saying that "one person observes one above the others while another observes them all" making all of them optional even for the newly converted Jews of the first century.

======================

The reason this has no effect on the Ten Commandments or the Sabbath is obvious even to non-SDA groups that adhere to the "Baptist Confession of Faith" Section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19. - the TEN are affirmed in Eph 6:2 without any appeal to feast days - as they are in Matt 19 and in Rom 13.

The Sabbath was "made for mankind" Mark 2:27  -- no feast day has that said about it.

The Sabbath as given by God in Gen 2:1-3 has no animal sacrifice liturgy - no feast day has that said about it.

Amen Good arguments Bob 

Peace 

  Bob wrote: "We don't keep feast days for 3 reasons that have nothing to do with the Catholic Church."

  Actually it does, they are the organization trying to change times and laws according to several translations, 

 



Daniel 7:25 (Amplified Bible)

 "And he shall speak words against the Most High [God] and shall wear out the saints of the Most High and think to change the time [of sacred feasts and holy days] and the law; and the saints shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time [three and one-half years].

 Daniel 7:25 (New Living Translation)

"He will defy the Most High and oppress the holy people of the Most High. He will try to change their sacred festivals and laws, and they will be placed under his control for a time, times, and half a time.

 Daniel 7:25 (New American Bible)
"He shall speak against the Most High and oppress the holy ones of the Most High, thinking to change the feast days and the law. They shall be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time

 Daniel 7:25 (Christian Standard Bible (CSB)

25 He will speak words against the Most High and oppress[a] the holy ones of the Most High. He will intend to change religious festivals and laws, and the holy ones will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time.

  Bob, it's not just the 7th day Sabbath the Catholic organization is trying to change, it's the annual Holy days of GOD as well. Several translations agree. 

  


 Bob wrote: "1. There is no priesthood on Earth as required by the OT feasts according to Heb 7 and even Christ Himself "would not be a priest at all if He were on Earth" Heb 8"

  Every SDA knows the temple , the earthly priesthood and animal sacrifices that was required was abolished on the cross 

  EGW: The earthly priesthood ceased, but we look to Jesus, the Minister of the new covenant. “The way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing. ... But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, ... by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.” Hebrews 9:8-12, KJV. – {HH 69.4}

  You thinking in order to observe the annual Holy days of GOD requires the earthly priesthood and the temple is a misunderstanding on your part. How do I know this Bob? Because the annual Holy days of GOD continued to be observed after the cross.

  EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390

  There is no earthly priesthood temple requirements and sacrifices being observed by Luke, Paul and his converts in Phillppi. 


 Bob wrote: "2. The animal sacrifices that define the liturgy for the feasts ended at the cross Heb 10:4-11 -- so we would have to "make stuff up" for liturgy of each of the feasts without the scripture-defined "sacrifices and offerings" that ended at the cross according to Heb 10."

  Nothing made up her brother Bob... Again, the death of Jesus abolished the ceremonial system with the sacrifices that was required during the 7th Sabbath and the annual sabbaths.. But the actions of the apostles shows us they were still observing the annual Holy days of GOD without the sacrificing of animals. 


 Bob wrote: "3. Rom 14 speaks of the Bible-approved annual feast days saying that "one person observes one above the others while another observes them all" making all of them optional even for the newly converted Jews of the first century."

    We can put the microscope on that verse if you like, but all I know is that the apostles observed the annual Holy days of GOD after the cross... Also, the first Gentile Christians that learned from the apostles observed the annual Holy times of GOD. Let's read the facts of history 

  

 A.T Jones gives a History lesson in the book Great empires of Prophecy, he said

 "From Rome there came now another addition to the sunworshipping apostasy. The first Christians being mostly Jews, continued to celebrate, in remembrance of the death of Christ, the true Passover; and this was continued among those who from among the Gentles had turned to Christ. Accordingly, the celebration was always on the Passover day, the fourteenth of the first month. Rome, however, and from her all the West, adopted the day of the sun as the day of this coloration. According to the Eastern custom, the celebration, being on the fourteenth day of the month, would of course fall on different days of the week as the years resolved. The rule of Rome was that the celebration must always be on a Sunday." (Great Empires of Prophecy, 1898, p. 389 by A.T. Jones)

    Polycrates wrote: "We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man' --- (Eusebius. Church History, Book V, Chapter 24. Translated by Arthur Cushman McGiffert. Excerpted from Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series Two, Volume 1. Edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace. American Edition, 1890. Online Edition Copyright © 2004 by K. Knight; also Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book 5, Chapter XXIV. Digireads.com, 2005, p. 115).

  This is about 200 years after the cross, and facts of history shows Rome/Catholic church is the organization trying to change the Holy times of GOD. So with all due respect, you telling me the Catholic Church doesn't have anything to do with trying to change the annual Holy days of GOD as well doesn't make sense when the facts of history proves otherwise. 

   They acknowledge it too,

  "The Cath. Church abolished not only the Sabbath, but all the other Jewish festivals. Pray and study. I shall be always glad to help you as long as you honestly seek the truth. Respectfully, T.
Enright CSSR.” June 1905


 Bob wrote: "The reason this has no effect on the Ten Commandments or the Sabbath is obvious even to non-SDA groups that adhere to the "Baptist Confession of Faith" Section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19. - the TEN are affirmed in Eph 6:2 without any appeal to feast days - as they are in Matt 19 and in Rom 13.
The Sabbath was "made for mankind" Mark 2:27 -- no feast day has that said about it.
The Sabbath as given by God in Gen 2:1-3 has no animal sacrifice liturgy - no feast day has that said about it."

  The 7th Day Sabbath did have required sacrifices by the priest in the temple Bob, let's read 

  

 Num. 28:9 “On the Sabbath day, two male lambs a year old without blemish, and two tenths of an ephah of fine flour for a grain offering, mixed with oil, and its drink offering: 10 this is the burnt offering of every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.

  But of course that ceremonial law that was conducted by the priest on the 7th day Sabbath and the annual Holy days of GOD was abolished on the cross. By the example of the apostles and the first Gentile Christians we see the 7th Day Sabbath & annual Holy days of GOD being observed without the observance of the ceremonial law. 

  Brother Bob, right now your mind is conditioned on believing the annual Holy days of GOD is ceremonial, and that if a person advocates on observing them then it must be done with animal sacrifices with priest. But it's not true! The term "ceremonial feast days" doesn't exist, it's not in the Bible or the SOP in the writings of EGW. The facts are, GOD'S weekly Holy Day and HIS annual Holy days (Lev.23) are moral... Again, the continued observance of the annual Holy days by the apostles and early Gentile Christians shows that.

 Blessings! 

Peace 

   
    Unfortunately most SDA has been conditioned to believe the word feast or feast days is just talking about the annual Holy days of GOD, but it's talking about the 7th Sabbath as well. Let's read,


   Lev. 23: 1And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
  2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.


   The context is the feast of GOD, which shall be proclaimed to be Holy Convocations... The word feast is translated from the Hebrew word Moed, which according to strongs concordance means appointed time, place, or meeting

 What is the number 1 feast day or appointed time that we should proclaim to be a Holy Convocation? 

  3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

 Now, what are GOD'S other feast or appointed times? It's HIS annual Holy days.. which we should proclaim in there seasons, in other words, we are to proclaim them yearly or annually. That's the only difference between the feast of GOD in verse 3 and 4, one is weekly and the others are yearly, but the context is still the Holy appointed times of GOD. 

 


  4 These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

  

  The weekly appointed time and the annual appointed times are Holy Convocations of GOD which we shall proclaim. The word feast or feast days involves the 7th day Sabbath & the annual Holy days of GOD. This is why the beast is trying to change or thinking to change these appointed times of GOD. Several translations understands "times" in Dan.7:25 is referring to the 7th day Sabbath and the annual sabbaths. 


 Daniel 7:25 (Amplified Bible)


"And he shall speak words against the Most High [God] and shall wear out the saints of the Most High and think to change the time [of sacred feasts and holy days] and the law; and the saints shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time [three and one-half years].

 Daniel 7:25 (New Living Translation)


"He will defy the Most High and oppress the holy people of the Most High. He will try to change their sacred festivals and laws, and they will be placed under his control for a time, times, and half a time.

 Dan. 7:25 (New American Bible)
"He shall speak against the Most High and oppress the holy ones of the Most High, thinking to change the feast days and the law. They shall be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time

 Daniel 7:25Christian Standard Bible (CSB)


25 He will speak words against the Most High and oppress[a] the holy ones of the Most High. He will intend to change religious festivals and laws, and the holy ones will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time.

 Daniel 7:25 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)


 25 He will speak against the Most High God, oppress the holy people of the Most High, and plan to change the appointed times and laws. The holy people will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half of a time.


 Daniel 7:25Good News Translation (GNT)


25 He will speak against the Supreme God and oppress God's people. He will try to change their religious laws and festivals, and God's people will be under his power for three and a half years.

 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

 25 He will speak words against the Most High and oppress[a] the holy ones of the Most High. He will intend to change religious festivals and laws, and the holy ones will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time

    

  Unfortunately, most of my SDA brothers and sisters take Dan.7:25 and say it's just talking about the 7th Day Sabbath, but most fail to understand that it's talking about the annual Holy days of GOD as well. 

 As I pointed out, the Catholic organization doesn't deny trying to change the "times" (plural) of GOD. 

 

  This from the Catholic Catechism, by Peter Cardinal Gasparri translated by the Rev. Hugh Pope, O.P., second printing, copyright 1932 and printed by P. J. Kenedy & Sons, Typographi Pontificii, 12 Barclay Street, New York, questions 203-206, pages 120-121.

(204) What were the festival days in the Old Testament?


 Answer: In the Old Testament there were many festival days, but the chief one was the Sabbath, the very name of which signifies the rest needful for the worship of God, whence it is called "the day of rest."

"(205) Why is the Sabbath day not observed under the New Testament?


 A) The Sabbath day is not observed under the New Testament, because in its place the Church keeps Sunday in honor of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the coming down of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost; the Church also adds other festival days.


(206) To what, then, are we bound nowadays as regards keeping festival days holy?


 A) As regards keeping festival days holy we are to-day bound to sanctify, in the manner proscribed by the Church, the Sundays and other Feast days appointed by her."


This is from the Catechism of Pope Pius X:


2 Q.  What are festivals?


 A. In the Old Law they were Saturdays and certain other days regarded as specially solemn by the Jews; in the New Law they are Sundays and other festivals instituted by the Church

 "The Cath. Church abolished not only the Sabbath, but all the other Jewish festivals. Pray and study. I shall be always glad to help you as long as you honestly seek the truth. Respectfully, T.
Enright CSSR.” June 1905

  The Catholic organization understands the word feast or feast days in Lev.23 involves the 7th day Sabbath and the annual Holy days of GOD, that's why they are trying to change them. Just like the 7th Day Sabbath, the annual Holy days of GOD are still applicable for Christians today, they are still important to GOD after the cross. One of the pillars of the SDA Church teaching is understanding what happened on Oct.22,1844, it was the Day of Atonement, the tenth day of the seventh month. This shows us GOD still using HIS annual Holy days in relation to the second Advent of Jesus Christ our King. 

  EGW: "In like manner the types which relate to the second advent must be fulfilled at the time pointed out in the symbolic service."

 

  Has GOD changed? Of course not, if He's been using HIS annual Holy days before, during and after the cross for great events in relation to our salvation, why would HE stop doing what HE has always done? 

 By the power of the Holy Spirit, I pray and plea the people in the SDA Church see the truth presented and change their belief about the annual Holy days of GOD, they were not abolished, Holy Convocations of GOD are good and moral. The term "ceremonial sabbaths" or "ceremonial feast days" doesn't exist in the Bible or SOP in the writings of EGW. Unfortunately, I hear many SDA use that term, but they are not ceremonial... Before the cross there were ceremonies done on the annual Holy days of GOD , however the Holy days themselves aren't ceremonial, they are moral. 

  Blessings! 

Peace 

   

   My SDA brothers and sisters has been taught by prominent SDA pastors that we shouldn't or don't have to observe the annual Holy days of GOD for reasons like this,

 Adventist review: "If we say that the divine commands to keep the festivals are still in effect for Christians, it is obvious that we must keep them according to the biblical instructions. Those require traveling to Jerusalem three times a year to offer animal sacrifices officiated by divinely authorized and ritually pure priests, who are descendants of Aaron, at God’s consecrated Temple (compare Lev. 8; Num. 3:10; 1 Kings 8). We can get to Jerusalem, but the rest is impossible because of the harsh reality that the only sacrificial system ordained by God on earth came to a crashing halt when the Romans destroyed the Temple in A.D. 70. Now nobody can observe any of the annual festivals required by the Torah ?(= Pentateuch) according to God’s instructions, even if they believe they must. Such biblical laws that require and regulate institutions that no longer exist (in this case the temple system) do not literally apply to us.4 Yet, the festival texts teach us the ongoing principle that we need to regularly celebrate God’s redemption and sustaining power." - (More Holy Days for Adventists? By Roy E. Gane)

  This teaching is just not true... because I'm an SDA doesn't mean I have to accept anything that doesn't harmonize with the truth. What is the truth? The truth is that Luke, Paul, and his converts observed the annual Holy days of GOD without the things required before the cross. Because I'm sure no SDA believe Luke, Paul and his converts was sacrificing animals, and they wasn't in Jerusalem, they were in Phillppi. 

  Just to be sure, the annual Holy days of GOD continued to be observed by the early Gentiles some two hundred years after the cross. 

 
 A.T Jones gives a History lesson in the book Great empires of Prophecy, he said


 "From Rome there came now another addition to the sunworshipping apostasy. The first Christians being mostly Jews, continued to celebrate, in remembrance of the death of Christ, the true Passover; and this was continued among those who from among the Gentles had turned to Christ. Accordingly, the celebration was always on the Passover day, the fourteenth of the first month. Rome, however, and from her all the West, adopted the day of the sun as the day of this coloration. According to the Eastern custom, the celebration, being on the fourteenth day of the month, would of course fall on different days of the week as the years resolved. The rule of Rome was that the celebration must always be on a Sunday." (Great Empires of Prophecy, 1898, p. 389 by A.T. Jones)


Polycrates wrote: "We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man' --- (Eusebius. Church History, Book V, Chapter 24. Translated by Arthur Cushman McGiffert. Excerpted from Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series Two, Volume 1. Edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace. American Edition, 1890. Online Edition Copyright © 2004 by K. Knight; also Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book 5, Chapter XXIV. Digireads.com, 2005, p. 115).

  

  I won't believe what somebody tells me even if they are prominent SDA teachers, it has to line up with what is true. SDA can't ignore the facts of history. What's been taught in the SDA Church by most in regards to the annual Holy days of GOD is not true. 

 Blessings! 

Hi Reasoning I see you have not changed anything as you quote A.T. Jones

"From Rome there came now another addition to the sunworshipping apostasy. The first Christians being mostly Jews, continued to celebrate, in remembrance of the death of Christ, the true Passover; and this was continued among those who from among the Gentles had turned to Christ. Accordingly, the celebration was always on the Passover day, the fourteenth of the first month. Rome, however, and from her all the West, adopted the day of the sun as the day of this coloration. According to the Eastern custom, the celebration, being on the fourteenth day of the month, would of course fall on different days of the week as the years resolved. The rule of Rome was that the celebration must always be on a Sunday." (Great Empires of Prophecy, 1898, p. 389 by A.T. Jones)

And what is “celebrate, in remembrance of the death of Christ, the true Passover;”

The bible says this:

1Co 11:23  For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread; 24  And giving thanks, He broke it and said, "Take, eat; this is My body, which is broken for you; this do in remembrance of Me." 25  In the same way He took the cup also, after supping, saying, "This cup is the New Covenant in My blood; as often as you drink it, do this in remembrance of Me." 26  For "as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you show" the Lord's death until He shall come. 

EGW:

Christ was standing at the point of transition between two economies and their two great festivals. He, the spotless Lamb of God, was about to present Himself as a sin offering, that He would thus bring to an end the system of types and ceremonies that for four thousand years had pointed to His death. As He ate the Passover with His disciples, He instituted in its place the service that was to be the memorial of His great sacrifice. The national festival of the Jews was to pass away forever. The service which Christ established was to be observed by His followers in all lands and through all ages. {DA 652.2}

The Passover was ordained as a commemoration of the deliverance of Israel from Egyptian bondage. God had directed that, year by year, as the children should ask the meaning of this ordinance, the history should be repeated. Thus the wonderful deliverance was to be kept fresh in the minds of all. The ordinance of the Lord’s Supper was given to commemorate the great deliverance wrought out as the result of the death of Christ. Till He shall come the second time in power and glory, this ordinance is to be celebrated. It is the means by which His great work for us is to be kept fresh in our minds. {DA 652.3}

To me it says the Passover has no meaning as Jesus became the true Passover the type meets the anti-type

God Bless

RSS

Site Sponsors

 

Adventist Single?
Meet other Single
Adventists here:
Join Free


USA members:

Support AO by
using this link:
Amazon.com

 

© 2021   Created by Clark P.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service