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Peace

 Brothers and sisters of the SDA movement, this post is to show that the teaching within the Church that GOD'S Holy set times are done away with is wrong. Teaching the annual Holy Days of GOD are done away with weakens some our reasoning on why we should observe the 7th Day Sabbath. Let me show you how.

 When SDA teach about the 7th Day Sabbath, we use several reasoning methods to show that the 7th Day Sabbath is not done away with as many Christians believe. 

 One of them is, it was Jesus' custom  to observed the 7th Sabbath, and we should do what Jesus did, He is our example. For me, this is the most powerful proof that the 7th Day Sabbath is not done away with... I never heard anyone say there are things Jesus did that we shouldn't do, I always heard if Jesus did it, we should do it. 

 However, when it comes to applying that same reasoning to the annual Holy Days of GOD, that's not good enough for many in the SDA Church on why we should observe them. To me that's illegal reasoning, because you can't apply a reasoning point to one subject (the 7th Day Sabbath) and not use or ignore that same point on another subject (the annual Holy Days) that's within the same context, GOD'S Holy appointed times. 

 Whatever Jesus did, we should do. I don't believe anyone here will dispute this. 

 

 EGW: "The example of Christ is authoritative for every son and daughter of Adam.He represented the law of God in His life, giving to men an example of what obedience to every precept will accomplish for human nature. He is our example, and every one who is endowed with reasoning faculties is required to follow in His footsteps; for His life is a perfect pattern to all humanity. Christ is the finished standard of the character to which every one may attain. . . ." SD p.137

 

 With that said, let's ask ourselves, did Jesus observe the annual Holy Days of GOD along with the 7th Day Sabbath.. The answer is Yes! 

 


EGW: [Passover]-- " In the days of Christ the people had grown cold and formal in their service to God. They thought more of their own pleasure than of His goodness to them. But it was not so with Jesus. He loved to think about God. As He came to the temple, He watched the priests in their work. He bowed with the worshipers as they knelt to pray, and His voice joined in the songs of praise." SJ p.31

EGW: "Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm-trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days. And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute forever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month. Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: that your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." It was to the celebration of this feast that Jesus came. RH July 7,1896

 When teaching about the 7th Day Sabbath, and Jesus observing the Holy day, for me it's a slam dunk reason on why we should observe the Sabbath. Again, I never heard anyone say there are things that Jesus did that we shouldn't do. I always heard if Jesus did it, then it's good for us to do.

  


Lets look after the cross, is GOD'S people observing the Holy feast days of GOD? Lets look at Luke, Paul and converts, which were mostly gentiles

 
EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390

  Luke, Paul and his Phillippian converts kept the whole eight days of the feast. If I'm not mistaken, this is about 20 something years after Jesus' death and resurrection. 

 Their actions is positive proof that the annual Holy Days of GOD were still being kept by Christian Jews and Gentiles. Again, this is the same reasoning towards the 7th Day Sabbath, 

 

Joe Crews: "In Acts 16:13 we have positive proof that Paul kept the Sabbath even when there was no synagogue and no Jews. He was ministering in Greece, where there were only a few scattered Jews and no synagogue at all. What did he do on the Sabbath? “And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spoke unto the women which resorted thither.”
Even with no church to attend, the apostle sought out a spot where religious worship was carried on—a place of prayer by the river—and preached to those who went there. Surely, no one can fail to discern Paul’s deep commitment to the Sabbath as we follow him in this unusual outdoor mission. Just suppose this Macedonian experience had taken place on the first day of the week instead of the Sabbath. Without question, it would be cited as absolute evidence for Sunday worship, and we would have to concur. But what possible arguments can one present against this example of Paul in true Sabbath keeping."

 Let's get some commentary from Steve Wohlberg Of White horse media, it's the tenth reason on why The Sabbath is not just for the Jewish people.


Steve Wohlberg (White horse media) wrote: " 10) Luke was a Gentile who kept the Sabbath. Luke was the only Gentile who wrote any New Testament books (he wrote The Gospel According to St. Luke and The Acts of the Apostles). Luke traveled with Paul and wrote, “On the Sabbath we went out of the city by a river side.” Acts 16:13. It was the seventh-day Sabbath, the memorial of the creation (see Ex. 20:11). Both Luke and Paul knew it."

 Applying that same reasoning, which is a good reasoning to use for SDA to use when teaching why we should be still observing the 7th Day Sabbath, it is one of the reasons that led me to understanding the Sabbath truth, because like people say, actions speaks louder than words... Taking that same reasoning and applying it to the annual Holy Days of GOD must be good too.

 EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390

 Surly no one should believe they were sacrificing animals during this Passover celebration, so the argument that if we want to observe the annual Holy Days we must sacrifice animals, that holds no weight.

 Those who say we must be in Jerusalem to properly observe the annual Holy Days of GOD, that holds no weight. They were in Phillippi, not Jerusalem.  These are points of view that many SDA hold, because it's being taught by our teachers. 

 I highly respect Doug Batchelor, probably the most recognized SDA today.. I heard him teach on why Christians are not obligated to observe the annual Holy Days of GOD... some of them are, The Ten Commandments are written on stone, and annual Holy Days are written on paper, another one is, The Ten Commandments are inside the Ark and the commandments about the annual Holy Days are on the side of the Ark.. None of that holds any weight, because SDA fully understand that there are commandments written on that paper and put on the side of the Ark that we say are still binding, like the health laws.

 

 

Doug Batchelor: "2. Why did God give health principles to His people?
"The Lord commanded us to observe all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that He might preserve us alive” (Deuteronomy 6:24).
“You shall serve the Lord your God, and He will bless your bread and your water. And I will take sickness away from the midst of you” (Exodus 23:25).

Answer: God gave health principles because He knows what is best for the human body. Automobile manufacturers place an operations manual in the glove compartment of each new car because they know what is best for their creation. God, who made our bodies, also has an “operations manual.” It is the Bible. Ignoring God’s “operations manual” often results in disease, twisted thinking, and burned-out lives, just as abusing a car can result in serious car trouble. Following God’s principles results in “saving health” (Psalm 67:2 KJV) and more abundant life (John 10:10). With our cooperation, God can use these great health laws to significantly reduce and eliminate the effects of the diseases of Satan (Psalm 103:2, 3)."

  The argument that the annual Holy Days of GOD are done away with because they are written on paper and on the side of the Ark, and at the same time saying laws (health) written on the same paper and placed on the side of the Ark are still binding shows that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. We have to properly identify what is the moral laws and what was ceremonial temple worship laws (the bath water).  We find that out by the actions of Jesus and the Apostles. Again, Jesus observed the annual Holy Days of GOD, so without a doubt we can say they are moral.

 EGW: "In consequence of continual transgression, the moral law was repeated in awful grandeur from Sinai. Christ gave to Moses religious precepts which were to govern the everyday life. These statutes were explicitly given to guard the ten commandments. They were not shadowy types to pass away with the death of Christ. They were to be binding upon man in every age as long as time should last. These commands were enforced by the power of the moral law, and they clearly and definitely explained that law. "–  RH May 6, 1875 

 The term ceremonial feast days is used often, but the term is not used nowhere in the Bible or SOP in the writings of EGW. But unfortunately many SDA use the term to strengthen their argument on why we shouldn't observe the annual Holy Days. Of course when we hear ceremonial, we automatically know the ceremonial laws was done away with at the Cross. So ceremonial is attached to the annual Holy Days. There were ceremonies done on all of GOD'S Holy Days including the 7th Day Sabbath , but the day itself is not a ceremony. 

 

 Where does this teaching come from? Who takes responsibility for trying to change GOD'S annual Holy Days? It's the same people who thinks to change times and laws, the Roman Catholic Church!

 

Daniel 7:25 (King James Version)
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


 Most SDA know this verse, and we mainly apply it to the Sabbath, but it's talking about the Feast days as well... Lets go to several other translations of the Bible... It sheds more light on what these "times"(Plural) are..


Daniel 7:25 (Amplified Bible)
"And he shall speak words against the Most High [God] and shall wear out the saints of the Most High and think to change the time [of sacred feasts and holy days] and the law; and the saints shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time [three and one-half years].


Daniel 7:25 (New Living Translation)
"He will defy the Most High and oppress the holy people of the Most High. He will try to change their sacred festivals and laws, and they will be placed under his control for a time, times, and half a time.


Dan. 7:25 (New American Bible)

"He shall speak against the Most High and oppress the holy ones of the Most High, thinking to change the feast days and the law. They shall be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time


Daniel 7:25Christian Standard Bible (CSB)

25 He will speak words against the Most High and oppress[a] the holy ones of the Most High. He will intend to change religious festivals and laws, and the holy ones will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time.


Daniel 7:25 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

25 He will speak against the Most High God, oppress the holy people of the Most High, and plan to change the appointed times and laws. The holy people will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half of a time.

Daniel 7:25Good News Translation (GNT)

25 He will speak against the Supreme God and oppress God's people. He will try to change their religious laws and festivals, and God's people will be under his power for three and a half years.


Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

25 He will speak words against the Most High and oppress[a] the holy ones of the Most High. He will intend to change religious festivals[b] and laws, and the holy ones will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time

   AT Jones gives a History lesson in the book Great empires of Prophecy, he said


"From Rome there came now another addition to the sunworshipping apostasy. The first Christians being mostly Jews, continued to celebrate, in remembrance of the death of Christ, the true Passover; and this was continued among those who from among the Gentles had turned to Christ. Accordingly, the celebration was always on the Passover day, the fourteenth of the first month. Rome, however, and from her all the West, adopted the day of the sun as the day of this coloration. According to the Eastern custom, the celebration, being on the fourteenth day of the month, would of course fall on different days of the week as the years resolved. The rule of Rome was that the celebration must always be on a Sunday." (Great Empires of Prophecy, 1898, p. 389 by A.T. Jones)

 At SDA crusades we like to show the Roman Catholic Church speaking these words against The Most High, and admitting they are the reason for this attempted change. Let see,

 For 25 Years Father Enright Offers $1,000 For A Bible Verse Commanding Sunday Observance:

“Dear Friend, I have
offered and still offer $1000 to any one who can prove to me from
the Bible alone that I am bound, under grievous sin to keep
Sunday holy. It was the Catholic Church which made the law
obliging us to keep Sunday holy. The church made this law long
after the Bible was written. Hence said law is not in the Bible.
Christ, our Lord empowered his church to make laws binding in
conscience. He said to his apostles and their lawful sucessors in
the priesthood “Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be
binding in heaven.” Matthew 16:19. Matthew 18:17. Luke 16:19.
The Cath. Church abolished not only the Sabbath, but all the other Jewish festivals. Pray and study. I shall be always glad to help you as long as you honestly seek the truth. Respectfully, T.
Enright CSSR.” June 1905

  It's not just the 7th Day Sabbath people of GOD, they take credit for trying to abolish the annual Holy Days of GOD too. Let's check out some more..

 This from the Catholic Catechism, by Peter Cardinal Gasparri, translated by the Rev. Hugh Pope, O.P., second printing, copyright 1932 and printed by P. J. Kenedy & Sons, Typographi Pontificii, 12 Barclay Street, New York, questions 203-206, pages 120-121.


(204) What were the festival days in the Old Testament?

In the Old Testament there were many festival days, but the chief one was the Sabbath, the very name of which signifies the rest needful for the worship of God, whence it is called "the day of rest."


"(205) Why is the Sabbath day not observed under the New Testament?

The Sabbath day is not observed under the New Testament, because in its place the Church keeps Sunday in honor of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the coming down of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost; the Church also adds other festival days.

(206) To what, then, are we bound nowadays as regards keeping festival days holy?

As regards keeping festival days holy we are to-day bound to sanctify, in the manner proscribed by the Church, the Sundays and other Feast days appointed by her."

   This is from the Catechism of Pope Pius X:

2 Q. What are festivals?

A. In the Old Law they were Saturdays and certain other days regarded as specially solemn by the Jews; in the New Law they are Sundays and other festivals instituted by the Church

 Again, we know these statements all to well, however this shows it wasn't just the 7th Day Sabbath trying to be done away with by the Catholic Church, but the annual Holy Days of GOD as well. 

   After Paul's time, we see from the facts of history that this battle continued, there were Christians that were Gentiles like Polycrates that observed the annual Holy time of GOD when HE said to observe it, and not listen to the Catholic Church. 

 Polycrates wrote:  "We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man' --- (Eusebius. Church History, Book V, Chapter 24. Translated by Arthur Cushman McGiffert. Excerpted from Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series Two, Volume 1. Edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace. American Edition, 1890. Online Edition Copyright © 2004 by K. Knight; also Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book 5, Chapter XXIV. Digireads.com, 2005, p. 115).

  He covered from the Apostles to his time, and all observed the Passover on the day that GOD prescribed, the 14th day of the first month. 

 So the question many SDA have to ask themselves is, why are we taking the side of the Catholic Church in regards to the annual Holy Days of GOD and saying they are done away with, and not the side of Jesus, the apostles, and the early Christian church who continued to observed them? 

 

Blessings!

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Hello Reasoning

Reasoning Wrote: Do you believe those prominent early Christians (from 25-300 years after the cross) was observing the annual Holy days of GOD and it had no significance to them and to GOD by their worship on HIS Holy days? (You failed to answer these questions)

Yes thinking about it perhaps the Roman Catholic Church may have obliterated the significance of the Passover. But why are you the only one that promotes it? Surely there would be others that would come to the same viewpoint as you have. Yet there is an astonishing silence on a matter that seems to have such great importance to you.

Yes I see the text in the Desire of Ages as I have repeatedly quoted as saying it has lost its significance

"Paul greatly desired to reach Jerusalem before the Passover as he would thus have an opportunity to meet those who should come from all parts of the world to attend the feast. Ever he cherished the hope that in some way he might be instrumental in removing the prejudice of his unbelieving countrymen, so that they might be led to accept the precious light of the gospel. He also desired to meet the church at Jerusalem and bear to them the gifts sent by the Gentile churches to the poor brethren in Judea. And by this visit he hoped to bring about a firmer union between the Jewish and the Gentile converts to the faith." {AA 389.1}

This says to me that Paul was keeping the Passover because he may be able to convince his Countrymen about the Gospel not a word about the importance of the Passover here.

"At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." {AA 390.4}

Not a word about the importance of the feast, and why did some leave if it was of such importance?

As you said: “Nowhere in the Bible or SOP in the writings of EGW does it say the annual Holy days of GOD has lost its significance after the cross?”

To me, this passage in DA does say that it seems to me you have the blinkers on when it comes to working out the significance and what it meant. Clearly, to the Jew, it was an important feast but how were they keeping it?

We keep the Sabbath as prescribed as it is important and as a sign of loyalty to God and a celebration of the creation of the world. Jesus was not keeping the Passover as it was prescribed why not? Because He was going to replace it with something better and the importance of the Passover was losing its importance. No one was keeping it in a prescribed way. No one put the Lambs blood on the doorpost, ate bitter herbs, eating in haste, staff in hand, you know it well it was prescribed By the Lord Himself. If we were to keep Sabbath in the same way as they did with the Passover I am sure there would be a lot of discussion about what is the importance of keeping Sabbath. How far can one go in degrading something God has prescribed and believe God is looking in favor on what you are doing?

The Passover was pointing forward to the Lamb of God and backward to the exodus. The Holy communion points back to the Lamb of God on the cross and forward to when Christ will come again. How do we celebrate the Communion? Hopefully with a contrite heart as apostle Paul says for us to do.

I believe this will show you what is important for now I can not think of anything I could add to this at this time.

God Bless and Happy Sabbath

Ellen White spoke about feast keeping after Christ death in 70 ad, but these feast keepers were only Jews because the Christians were able to escape. 

"At the time of the siege, the Jews were assembled at Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles, and thus the Christians throughout the land were able to make their escape unmolested." — (Ellen G. White, Great Controversy, 30.4)

Satan rejoiced that the Jews were safe in his snareThey still continued their useless forms, their sacrifices, and ordinances. As Jesus hung upon the cross and cried, "It is finished", the veil of the temple was rent in twain from top to bottom, to signify that God would no longer meet with the priests in the temple, to accept their sacrifices and ordinances, and also to show that the partition wall between the Jews and the Gentiles was broken down." — (Ellen G. White, Early Writings, 209.1)

I have shared this before! Rites and ceremonies has to do with feast keeping.

"The Jews had always prided themselves upon their divinely appointed services, and many of those who had been converted to the faith of Christ still felt that since God had once clearly outlined the Hebrew manner of worship, it was improbable that He would ever authorize a change in any of its specifications. They insisted that the Jewish laws and ceremonies should be incorporated into the rites of the Christian religion. They were slow to discern that all the sacrificial offerings had but prefigured the death of the Son of God, in which type met antitype, and after which the rites and ceremonies of the Mosaic dispensation were no longer binding." — (Ellen G. White, Acts of the Apostles, 189.3)

This other quote is so clear that it would be almost sinful for someone after reading this to insist that we must still keep the feasts.

"The Jews had prided themselves upon their divinely appointed services; and they concluded that as God once specified the Hebrew manner of worship, it was impossible that he should ever authorize a change in any of its specifications. They decided that Christianity must connect itself with the Jewish laws and ceremonies. They were slow to discern to the end of that which had been abolished by the death of Christ, and to perceive that all their sacrificial offerings had but prefigured the death of the Son of God, in which type had met its antitype rendering valueless the divinely appointed ceremonies and sacrifices of the Jewish religion.

Paul had prided himself upon his Pharisaical strictness; but after the revelation of Christ to him on the road to Damascus, the mission of the Saviour, and his own work in the conversion of the Gentiles, were plain to his mind; and he fully comprehended the difference between a living faith and a dead formalism. Paul still claimed to be one of the children of Abraham, and kept the ten commandments in letter and in spirit as faithfully as he had ever done before his conversion to Christianity. But he knew that the typical ceremonies must soon altogether cease, since that which they had shadowed forth had come to pass, and the light of the gospel was shedding its glory upon the Jewish religion, giving a new significance to its ancient rites." — (Ellen G. White, Sketches from the Life of Paul, 64.2-65.1)

The last Passover

The passover suppers had been scenes of special interest; but upon this occasion Jesus was troubled in spirit, and his disciples sympathized with his grief although they knew not its cause. THIS WAS VIRTUALLY THE LAST PASSOVER THAT WAS EVER TO BE CELEBRATED; for type was to meet antitype in the slaying of the Lamb of God for the sins of the world. Christ was soon to receive his full baptism of suffering; but the few quiet hours between him and Gethsemane were to be spent for the benefit of his disciples." — (E.G. White, 3SP 83.3) 

"Christ was standing at the point of transition between two economies and their two great festivals. He, the spotless Lamb of God, was about to present Himself as a sin-offering, that He would thus bring to an end the system of types and ceremonies that for four thousand years had pointed to His death. As He ate the Passover with His disciples, He instituted in its place the service that was to be the memorial of His great sacrifice. The NATIONAL FESTIVAL OF THE JEWS WAS TO PASS AWAY FOREVER. The service which Christ established was to be observed by His followers in all lands and through all ages." — (Ellen G. White, Desire of Ages, 652)

When the Saviour yielded up His life on Calvary, the significance of the Passover ceased, and the ordinance of the Lord's Supper was instituted as a memorial of the same event of which the Passover had been a type." — (Ellen G. White, Patriarchs and Prophets, 539.5)

Great post Jason one would think that would be convincing enough. 

Peace 

  

  Jason wrote: "Ellen White spoke about feast keeping after Christ death in 70 ad, but these feast keepers were only Jews because the Christians were able to escape."

  Brother Jason, so it don't get confused, the facts of history almost three hundred years after the cross shows Gentiles observing the annual Holy days of Convocation. 

 Polycrates wrote: "We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man' --- (Eusebius. Church History, Book V, Chapter 24. Translated by Arthur Cushman McGiffert. Excerpted from Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series Two, Volume 1. Edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace. American Edition, 1890. Online Edition Copyright © 2004 by K. Knight; also Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book 5, Chapter XXIV. Digireads.com, 2005, p. 115).

 

 This shows not only Christian Jews were observing them, Gentiles as well... They were not abolished on the cross like you say brother Jason. Ask Ian, he can tell you. 

  

  Jason wrote: "I have shared this before! Rites and ceremonies has to do with feast keeping."

  Not after the cross, Jesus abolished those rites and ceremonies brother Jason.. But the facts of history shows apostles and Gentile Christians observing the annual Holy days of GOD. They were doing the New Testament ceremonies that Jesus instituted, while observing the exact days GOD prescribed.

 EGW: "At Philippi, Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390

 Jason wrote: "This other quote is so clear that it would be almost sinful for someone after reading this to insist that we must still keep the feasts."

 

 To say this other quote would imply you showed something already , which you haven't. No where in that quote does it say the annual Holy days of GOD are done away with or abolished. Here's something from that quote brother Jason, 

 

 EGW: ".. They were slow to discern to the end of that which had been abolished by the death of Christ, ..." 

  Bro., again, ask brother Ian, the annual Holy days of GOD was not abolished... He believes you and the majority of SDA are wrong in believing that, that your not guided by the Holy Spirit in saying that.

 Ian wrote: "They may say that the Passover is done away with, but the Bible does not say so. These teachers and leaders are only humans and clearly, the Holy Spirit does not always guide them. 

 The reason he believes that is because the facts show the annual Holy days of GOD continued to be observed by the apostles and Gentile Christians some three hundred years after the cross. I agree with him. 

 Ian wrote: "Now I should say that Jesus did not abolish it and as you have pointed out prominent early Christians like Paul and Polycarp were keeping it"

 So you can't take the quote and say its talking about the annual Holy days of GOD themselves, because facts shows they were still being observed. 

 EGW is talking about the Passover lamb and the rites & ceremonies that was done... That was abolished. 

 So when you read,

 EGW: "THIS WAS VIRTUALLY THE LAST PASSOVER THAT WAS EVER TO BE CELEBRATED.."

  She is not talking about the annual Holy days themselves... how can we be sure??   Because the Passover days themselves continued to be observed by apostles and Gentile Christians centuries after the cross. You have to reason my brother. The Annual Holy Convocations of GOD are moral. They have shown to have significance after the cross, like Oct. 22, 1844.. That was the day of Atonement when Jesus moved to the Most Holy. Positive proof GOD still using HIS annual Holy days after the cross. 

 Blessings!

Peace 

 Ian wrote: "Yes thinking about it perhaps the Roman Catholic Church may have obliterated the significance of the Passover. But why are you the only one that promotes it? Surely there would be others that would come to the same viewpoint as you have. Yet there is an astonishing silence on a matter that seems to have such great importance to you."

  It's seems your still not answering my questions... that is becoming astonishing brother Ian. But quickly, let me answer your question. What do you mean I'm the only one that promotes observing the annual Holy days of GOD? there are many people who believe and teach that.

 Now, if your talking amongst SDA then I would agree, because many SDA has been taught by the teachers/minsters that the annual Holy days of GOD are abolished. 

 It's your view that has no support, you believe the annual Holy days of GOD are not abolished...  We agree on that my brother, but Jason and the majority of SDA don't believe as you do...  Simply because if they are not abolished, then that means we should still be observing the annual Holy days of GOD. Then you turnaround and post this from EGW

 EGW: "He, the spotless Lamb of God, was about to present Himself as a sin offering, that He would thus bring to an end the system of types and ceremonies that for four thousand years had pointed to His death."

  Most SDA would say, ok if your posting this against observing them, then that means you believe the annual Holy days of GOD was brought to an end like the statement says, in other words, they were done away with, or abolished.

 Ian wrote: "Now I should say that Jesus did not abolish it and as you have pointed out prominent early Christians like Paul and Polycarp were keeping it"

 So what is it brother Ian, you believe the annual Holy days of GOD was brought to an end, again, which means they are done away with, abolished at the cross... Or do you believe they were not brought to an end, that they were not done away with or abolished? Your saying two things my brother. 

 Please, don't put it on the same level as circumcision, because everyone agrees circumcision was done away with, brought to an end, abolished at the cross. But one side of you and I agree the annual Holy days of GOD are not done away with, they weren't brought to an end, or abolished. Why weren't they abolished brother Ian? Because it's moral to observe annual Holy Convocations of GOD... which HE likens to the Sabbath by calling them a sabbath, you can't know what a sabbath day is unless you know what the Sabbath day is.. 

  Ian wrote:  "Yes I see the text in the Desire of Ages as I have repeatedly quoted as saying it has lost its significance"

  I know, but despite how you read a thing, you have repeatedly ignored my questions showing you the annual Holy days of GOD has not lost its significance after cross. In other words, what your getting out of DA in your reading is that the annual Holy days of GOD has lost its significance, but the actions of the apostles, Gentiles, Jesus Himself proves otherwise. 

 Ian wrote: "This says to me that Paul was keeping the Passover because he may be able to convince his Countrymen about the Gospel not a word about the importance of the Passover here."

 We agree, Paul was trying to make it to Jerusalem to convince his countrymen.. But he didn't make it there, he and Luke stopped at Phillippi, from my understanding a place were there was no synagogue and few Jews. 


"At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." {AA 390.4}

 
 Ian wrote: "Not a word about the importance of the feast, and why did some leave if it was of such importance?"

   Again, nowhere does it say what the others did, but it does say what Luke, Paul and his converts did, they observed the Passover days, the whole eight days. These are the facts. It was important to them, if it wasn't then they wouldn't been observing the annual Holy days of GOD. They knew the annual Holy Convocations of GOD was a important and a good thing, it is moral to have Holy Convocations that GOD prescribed. There no indication from the Bible or SOP in the writings of EGW that the annual Holy Convocations of GOD was abolished and stopped being observed. Which you agree with, so why are you telling me the annual Holy Convocations of GOD was brought to an end? 

  The importance is that it points to the final deliverance for the people of GOD.. When "Christ’s great work of atonement for men will then have been completed, and their sins will have been forever blotted out.". 

 EGW: "The Passover was to be both commemorative and typical, not only pointing back to the deliverance from Egypt, but forward to the greater deliverance which Christ was to accomplish in freeing His people from the bondage of sin. The sacrificial lamb represents “the Lamb of God,” in whom is our only hope of salvation. Says the apostle, “Christ our passover is sacrificed for us.” 1 Corinthians 5:7. It was not enough that the paschal lamb be slain; its blood must be sprinkled upon the doorposts; so the merits of Christ’s blood must be applied to the soul. We must believe, not only that He died for the world, but that He died for us individually." EP p.190

 I believe the Passover is still commemorative and still points forward... Of course it pointed back to the deliverance from Egypt, and the meaning of those events and ceremonies that was done pointed to Christ in giving His life freely so we can be free.

 Even though His death was and is fully sufficient to free us, we still look forward for the final deliverance , to be free from the bondage of sin constantly being around us, where Satan is always trying to trip us up. A Time when we go through the last plagues and Passover from this world of sin to the Heavenly Canaan. 

 EGW: "That deliverance was typical of the great atonement which Christ made by the sacrifice of his own life for the final deliverance of his people." 1SP p.203


 EGW: "The people of Israel praised God at the Feast of Tabernacles, as they called to mind His mercy in their deliverance from the bondage of Egypt and His tender care for them during their pilgrim life in the wilderness. They rejoiced also in the consciousness of pardon and acceptance, through the service of the day of atonement, just ended. But when the ransomed of the Lord shall have been safely gathered into the heavenly Canaan, forever delivered from the bondage of the curse, under which “the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now” (Romans 8:22), they will rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory. Christ’s great work of atonement for men will then have been completed, and their sins will have been forever blotted out. " PP p.542

  

  We agree the crowning act of the annual Holy days of GOD is Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, without a doubt... However the examples I presented shows GOD still using HIS annual Holy Convocation days after the cross in relation to the second advent of Jesus. The examples you choose to ignore. 

 My brother Ian, you know me, I'll keep asking you something until you answer, but not answering shows an attempt to avoid my questions, why are you doing that? 

  Oct. 22, 1844, which was one of the annual Holy days of GOD, the exact time Jesus moved to the Most Holy within the temple in Heaven. It's the very foundation of SDA doctrine.


 Do you believe Oct. 22, 1844, the Day of Atonement, which is 1,844 years after the cross, do you believe that day has significance?

 

 I understand why your staying away from this question, because  It's obvious the annual Holy day has significance brother Ian, and you have no choice but to admit that, then when you do that, it'll prove what your saying is false. 

 another example.. As of now, it's 2,021 years after the cross,

Zech 14: 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 
 

 Do you believe keeping the Feast of Tabernacles has significance to GOD in the future?


 ignoring my questions isn't reasoning brother Ian.. Proof shows GOD is still using HIS annual Holy days to mark off events pertaining to the second advent of Jesus after the cross.


 EGW: "In like manner the types which relate to the second advent must be fulfilled at the time pointed out in the symbolic service." GC p.399


 This statement from EGW, makes these statements of yours untruthful, a lie!! 


Ian wrote: "As I said before, it has not been put on the cross but has lost its significance ...."
Ian wrote: "As I see it Just like the circumcision it has lost its significance ..."

 My brother Ian, with all due respect, your statements are a lie... the devil would have us believe the annual Holy days of GOD has lost its significance after the cross, but the clear, and I mean really clear facts shows that is not the case. 

 Ian wrote: "We keep the Sabbath as prescribed as it is important and as a sign of loyalty to God and a celebration of the creation of the world. Jesus was not keeping the Passover as it was prescribed why not? Because He was going to replace it with something better and the importance of the Passover was losing its importance. No one was keeping it in a prescribed way. No one put the Lambs blood on the doorpost, ate bitter herbs, eating in haste, staff in hand, you know it well it was prescribed By the Lord Himself. If we were to keep Sabbath in the same way as they did with the Passover I am sure there would be a lot of discussion about what is the importance of keeping Sabbath. How far can one go in degrading something God has prescribed and believe God is looking in favor on what you are doing?"

   They were all observing the annual Holy days of GOD on the days that GOD prescribed. Unfortunately your mind is fixed on the ceremonies that was associated with observing the annual Holy days of GOD... But those ceremonies were abolished and replaced by Jesus.

 

In case you forgot, the facts of history shows Jews and Gentiles observing the annual holy days of GOD. 

   Polycrates wrote: "We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man' --- (Eusebius. Church History, Book V, Chapter 24. Translated by Arthur Cushman McGiffert. Excerpted from Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series Two, Volume 1. Edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace. American Edition, 1890. Online Edition Copyright © 2004 by K. Knight; also Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book 5, Chapter XXIV. Digireads.com, 2005, p. 115).

  On the annual Holy days GOD prescribed they observed not only the day, but the ceremonies Jesus replaced. But without a doubt they observed the Holy days GOD prescribed.  That's what this discussion is about.

 Blessings! 

Hello Reasoning

Reasoning wrote: I know, but despite how you read a thing, you have repeatedly ignored my questions showing you the annual Holy days of GOD has not lost its significance after cross. In other words, what your getting out of DA in your reading is that the annual Holy days of GOD has lost its significance, but the actions of the apostles, Gentiles, Jesus Himself proves otherwise.

Perhaps we need to take a closer look at what is holy and when it becomes less so because of man disregarding what God has said

I know you would agree that we need to keep the Sabbath Holy we would avoid doing things that would be degrading the Sabbath and make it less holy.

Now, how about the Passover? As I have pointed out they were not doing the things that God had prescribed. As the Bible says:

Exo 12:1  And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, 2  This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you. 3  Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house: 4  And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb. 5  Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: 6  And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. 7  And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it. 8  And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it. 9  Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof. 10  And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire. 11  And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S passover. 12  For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD. 13  And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt. 14  And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever. 15  Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel. 16  And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you. 17  And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever. 18  In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. 19  Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. 20  Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread. 21  Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. 22  And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. 23  For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you. 24  And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever. 25  And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service. 26  And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service? 27  That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped. 28  And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they. 

As you can see in this text there are quite a few requirements that God required for you to be a true Israeli Are you a true Israeli? The best we can be is Spiritual Israeli's Do we need to do the same as the True Israeli's? Even Jesus who after all told Moses how this Annual holy day was to be kept did not say a thing about how the Annual feast had been degraded to just a congregation of friends and family. At what stage would you think you are doing the right thing and still neglecting things prescribed?

Reasoning Wrote: So what is it brother Ian, you believe the annual Holy days of GOD was brought to an end, again, which means they are done away with, abolished at the cross... Or do you believe they were not brought to an end, that they were not done away with or abolished? Your saying two things my brother.

How and when do you bring a day to an end? By disregarding the instructions of God? A day that has lost all its meaning except for the day itself is the 14 day? I did not say it was abolished, Jesus replaced it with something much better and superior. And the Passover was relegated to the same class as the Circumcision that also had lost all its meaning. And as you correctly claim Jesus did not say it was abolished.  

EGW The Passover was to be both commemorative and typical, not only pointing back to the deliverance from Egypt, but forward to the greater deliverance which Christ was to accomplish in freeing His people from the bondage of sin. The sacrificial lamb represents “the Lamb of God,” in whom is our only hope of salvation. Says the apostle, “Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us.” 1 Corinthians 5:7. It was not enough that the paschal lamb be slain; its blood must be sprinkled upon the doorposts; so the merits of Christ’s blood must be applied to the soul. We must believe, not only that He died for the world, but that He died for us individually. We must appropriate to ourselves the virtue of the atoning sacrifice. {PP 277.1}

The lamb was to be prepared whole, not a bone of it being broken: so not a bone was to be broken of the Lamb of God, who was to die for us. John 19:36. Thus was also represented the completeness of Christ’s sacrifice. {PP 277.3}

Do you do this?

The flesh was to be eaten. It is not enough even that we believe on Christ for the forgiveness of sin; we must by faith be constantly receiving spiritual strength and nourishment from Him through His word. Said Christ, “Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, hath eternal life.” John 6:53, 54. And to explain His meaning He said, “The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” Verse 63. Jesus accepted His Father’s law, wrought out its principles in His life, manifested its spirit, and showed its beneficent power in the heart. Says John, “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” John 1:14. The followers of Christ must be partakers of His experience. They must receive and assimilate the word of God so that it shall become the motive power of life and action. By the power of Christ they must be changed into His likeness, and reflect the divine attributes. They must eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of God, or there is no life in them. The spirit and work of Christ must become the spirit and work of His disciples. {PP 277.4}

As I understand what EGW says here is Jesus now is our Passover lamb and Jesus instituted The Holy Supper as the new Passover.

By obedience the people were to give evidence of their faith. So all who hope to be saved by the merits of the blood of Christ should realize that they themselves have something to do in securing their salvation. While it is Christ only that can redeem us from the penalty of transgression, we are to turn from sin to obedience. Man is to be saved by faith, not by works; yet his faith must be shown by his works. God has given His Son to die as a propitiation for sin, He has manifested the light of truth, the way of life, He has given facilities, ordinances, and privileges; and now man must co-operate with these saving agencies; he must appreciate and use the helps that God has provided—believe and obey all the divine requirements. {PP 279.1}

Clearly, this would tell us that we need to do what God tells us to do, and if you think you must keep the Passover you must put the Lamb's blood on your doorposts and eat the lamb with bitter herbs and in haste and with staff in hand.

Christ himself was not doing this did He?

God bless

Peace 

 

  Wow... This is amazing.. Your really ignoring my questions huh? All because you don't want to be proven wrong? 

 

 Oct. 22, 1844, which was one of the annual Holy days of GOD, the exact time Jesus moved to the Most Holy within the temple in Heaven. It's the very foundation of SDA doctrine.

 Do you believe Oct. 22, 1844, the Day of Atonement, which is 1,844 years after the cross, do you believe that day has significance?


I understand why your staying away from this question, because It's obvious the annual Holy day has significance brother Ian, and you have no choice but to admit that, then when you do that, it'll prove what your saying is false.


another example.. As of now, it's 2,021 years after the cross,


Zech 14: 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


 Do you believe keeping the Feast of Tabernacles has significance to GOD in the future?

 ignoring my questions isn't reasoning brother Ian.. Proof shows GOD is still using HIS annual Holy days to mark off events pertaining to the second advent of Jesus after the cross.

 Ian wrote: "Now, how about the Passover? As I have pointed out they were not doing the things that God had prescribed. As the Bible says:"

 That's not totally true.. The days GOD prescribed were being observed, however the rites & ceremonies that was done was abolished. Of course you don't think Luke, Paul and his converts in Phillippi was observing the OT rites & ceremonies, do you?

 Ian wrote: "As you can see in this text there are quite a few requirements that God required for you to be a true Israeli Are you a true Israeli? The best we can be is Spiritual Israeli's Do we need to do the same as the True Israeli's? Even Jesus who after all told Moses how this Annual holy day was to be kept did not say a thing about how the Annual feast had been degraded to just a congregation of friends and family. At what stage would you think you are doing the right thing and still neglecting things prescribed?"

 Brother Ian, by the Grace and Mercy of GOD I'm amongst Spiritual Israel... Your argument has no merit.. Because whatever was ceremonial law was done away with and replaced by Jesus. I'm not neglecting anything prescribed, the life of Jesus shows us that He observed the annual Holy days of GOD, but He didn't observe ceremonial temple worship. I hear many SDA pastors say when in doubt, do what Jesus did. 

 Of course the other proof shows that NT Christians was observing the Holy days prescribed by GOD , ..

 EGW : "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." {AA 390.4}

  .. You see brother Ian, surly you don't believe they were observing the OT ceremonial laws that Jesus abolished, do you?  

 No, they weren't, but they were observing the prescribed days that GOD commanded. So your argument that I must observe the ceremonial law in order to observe the annual Holy days that GOD prescribed holds no weight. 

 Actually it's the same weak argument that those who are against the 7th Sabbath use.. They say well... if your going to teach and promote the Sabbath then you have to observe the ceremonies that was done on the Sabbath. Then they will reference a chapter in the book of Numbers. 

  Of course we say, like I'm saying to you, the Holy day(s) remained, but the OT rites & ceremonies were abolished and replaced by Jesus. Real simple bro! 

 Ian wrote: " How and when do you bring a day to an end? By disregarding the instructions of God? A day that has lost all its meaning except for the day itself is the 14 day? I did not say it was abolished, Jesus replaced it with something much better and superior. And the Passover was relegated to the same class as the Circumcision that also had lost all its meaning. And as you correctly claim Jesus did not say it was abolished. "

 The Bible and SOP in the writings of EGW says the ceremonial law was abolished, Jesus replaced that... But the annual Holy days of GOD continued to be observed after the cross. You putting the annual Holy days of GOD in the same class as circumcision holds no weight either, because we all believe circumcision was done away with, it is nothing according to the Bible.. But the annual Holy days of GOD wasn't done away with, the Bible or SOP in the writings of EGW doesn't say the annual Holy days of GOD are done away or nothing. 

  

 Ian wrote: "As I understand what EGW says here is Jesus now is our Passover lamb and Jesus instituted The Holy Supper as the new Passover."

 

  Yes, Jesus is our Passover lamb, and He instituted the NT Passover ceremonies... But as proven, that didn't mean the annual Holy days of GOD themselves were overlooked as being nothing. The reason we know is because the apostles and Gentile Christians continue to observe the days GOD prescribed. These are the facts brother.

 Ian wrote: "Clearly, this would tell us that we need to do what God tells us to do, and if you think you must keep the Passover you must put the Lamb's blood on your doorposts and eat the lamb with bitter herbs and in haste and with staff in hand. Christ himself was not doing this did He?"

 

 That is not true... Because the annual Holy days of GOD continued to be observed after the cross doesn't mean the OT rites & ceremonies has to be done... Especially when the Bible and SOP in the writings of EGW says they were abolished.

  

 Blessings!

Peace 

 

 Brother Ian, continuing to ignore my simple question is not helping what you believe and teach. 

  

 Ian wrote: "As I said before, it has not been put on the cross but has lost its significance ...."
 Ian wrote: "As I see it Just like the circumcision it has lost its significance ..."

 

  These statements of yours are a lie brother Ian, because there is proof that GOD using HIS annual Holy days after the cross to preform events in relation to the second advent of Jesus. 

 Oct. 22, 1844, which was one of the annual Holy days of GOD, the exact time Jesus moved to the Most Holy within the temple in Heaven. It's the very foundation of SDA doctrine.


 Do you believe Oct. 22, 1844, the Day of Atonement, which is 1,844 years after the cross, do you believe that day has significance?

  Why are you ignoring this simple question brother Ian? Are you so stuck in your beliefs that you'll say something that is false? 

 Bless! 

Thanks for your reply Reasoning 

Reasoning wrote: Do you believe Oct. 22, 1844, the Day of Atonement, which is 1,844 years after the cross, do you believe that day has significance? I understand why your staying away from this question, because It's obvious the annual Holy day has significance brother Ian, and you have no choice but to admit that, then when you do that, it'll prove what your saying is false.

Correction 1810 years after the cross.

Calling me a liar is not going to promote this discussion. Do you really see me as a dishonest person?

I do admit I did not address your question as I overlooked it in order to concentrate on the Passover as to why, and why not, we should observe it. And as I understand from your comment You think we should. No matter how hollow the day has become. To my view, it is totally meaningless

The day of Atonement was fulfilled 22 October 1844 when Jesus entered into the Most Holy in heaven that is my understanding. All we are waiting for is to see the Scapegoat be led into the wilderness. Or as it says in Revelation

Rev 20:1  And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. KJV

Do you draw a lot between two goats? Do you kill one and lead the other into the wilderness? And remember in order to do this you need to sacrifice a bull for your own sin first. These were Temple rituals that needed to be performed in the Temple where is the Temple? Why was the veil torn from top to bottom by an unseen hand? Jesus said: Mat 23:38  Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 

John Wesley says this: Behold your house - The temple, which is now your house, not God's: Is left unto you - Our Lord spake this as he was going out of it for the last time: Desolate - Forsaken of God and his Christ, and sentenced to utter destruction. (And utter meaninglessness)

Why do you need to keep a day that is meaningless?

Just as the Passover it has been fulfilled. As to why we need to keep the Passover I can not understand because Jesus instituted the Holy Supper in its place. The Passover was not kept in the way prescribed. One wonders if we were keeping the Sabbath in such a way as the Passover was degraded what would be the result? To me, it has lost all meaning and there is just the empty shell of the day itself. As I said the Holy Supper does everything that the Passover was doing and so much more.

I know some SDA teachers have some strange ideas and we need to decide for ourselves what is right and true. EGW should and would have promoted those days if it had only the slightest importance that you seem to think they have, but she did not.

I discussed the Passover with my Pastor and he seems to have precisely the same view as I have.

God Bless.

Peace 

  Ian wrote: "Calling me a liar is not going to promote this discussion. Do you really see me as a dishonest person?"

   You personally, no I don't think your dishonest... That is why I was amazed that you were ignoring my questions, and you still are avoiding my questions. So, when you say this 

 Ian wrote: "As I said before, it has not been put on the cross but has lost its significance ...."
 Ian wrote: "As I see it Just like the circumcision it has lost its significance ..."

 Those statements are not true my brother... If it's not true, then what is it? 

 Again, the reason I know those statements aren't truthful, and that the annual Holy days of GOD still has significance after the cross is looking at Oct.22,1,844.. You say 1,810 years after the cross, fine, I'm just pointing out its eighteen centuries after the cross!   That day was an annual Holy day of GOD, that Holy day was used for a great and significant event.

 It shows the annual Holy days of GOD has significance after the cross, but your saying the annual Holy Convocations of GOD has lost significance after the cross.

 You see the problem here? Maybe you honestly don't, but there is a problem! 

  

 It's as simple as that my brother, So, my question to you for the umpteenth time, 

 that day of Oct. 22, 1,844, the Day of Atonement, do you believe that day has significance?

  

  Ian wrote: "Do you draw a lot between two goats? Do you kill one and lead the other into the wilderness? And remember in order to do this you need to sacrifice a bull for your own sin first. These were Temple rituals that needed to be performed in the Temple where is the Temple? Why was the veil torn from top to bottom by an unseen hand? Jesus said: Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."

  No, I don't preform OT rites & ceremonies on the annual Holy days of GOD... Jesus abolished the ceremonial law, but you and I know He didn't abolish the annual Holy days of GOD!  

 Ian wrote: "Just as the Passover it has been fulfilled. As to why we need to keep the Passover I can not understand because Jesus instituted the Holy Supper in its place. "

  The same reason Luke, Paul and his converts continue to observe the annual Holy days of GOD, because they are Holy Convocations... and you agree they were not abolished.

 Do you believe they were killing lambs and goats brother Ian or do you believe they were observing the NT ceremonies that Jesus instituted on the annual Holy days GOD prescribed? 

 The same reason early Gentile Christians continued to observe the annual Holy days of GOD in spite of the pressure from Rome to conform..

  Polycrates wrote: "We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man' --- (Eusebius. Church History, Book V, Chapter 24. Translated by Arthur Cushman McGiffert. Excerpted from Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series Two, Volume 1. Edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace. American Edition, 1890. Online Edition Copyright © 2004 by K. Knight; also Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book 5, Chapter XXIV. Digireads.com, 2005, p. 115).

  

  Why are early Gentile Christians still observing the exact Holy day GOD prescribed brother Ian? Because the annual days of Holy Convocation of GOD are just that, Holy Convocations!

 Do you believe they were killing lambs and goats brother Ian or do you believe they were observing the NT ceremonies that Jesus instituted on the annual Holy days? 

 

 So you trying to say ceremonial laws are required if a person wants to observe the annual Holy days of GOD after the cross is a weak argument..  because the early Church observed them without observing the OT rites & ceremonies. 

 Ian wrote: " The Passover was not kept in the way prescribed. One wonders if we were keeping the Sabbath in such a way as the Passover was degraded what would be the result? To me, it has lost all meaning and there is just the empty shell of the day itself. As I said the Holy Supper does everything that the Passover was doing and so much more."

  When it comes to the exact day GOD prescribed, it was kept that way. I'm not sure if I understand your question, all I know from the facts of Christian history is that the early Christians observed the 7th Sabbath and annual sabbaths on the days GOD prescribed. 

 No brother Ian, the annual Holy days of GOD hasn't ".. lost all meaning.." , the annual days which GOD prescribed to keep Holy Convocations are not ".. just the empty shell.." as you say. That my brother is untruthful. I don't know if you understand your being untruthful, but it's still an untruthful statement. 

 The Holy day of Oct.22, 1,844, the day of Atonement was a significant Holy day, it wasn't just an empty shell, it didn't "lost all its meaning"  after the cross as you say. If you answer my question that I been asking on a number of post, then perhaps you can see your statements are untruthful. 

 Just in case you missed it, here it goes again,

 The day of Oct. 22, 1,844, the Day of Atonement, do you believe that day has significance?

 

 


 Ian wrote: "I know some SDA teachers have some strange ideas and we need to decide for ourselves what is right and true. EGW should and would have promoted those days if it had only the slightest importance that you seem to think they have, but she did not."

  I believe GOD unfolds HIS Truth when and how HE wants.. EGW understood this,

  EGW: "A spirit of pharisaism has been coming in upon the people who claim to believe the truth for these last days. They are self-satisfied. They have said, “We have the truth. There is no more light for the people of God.” But we are not safe when we take a position that we will not accept anything else than that upon which we have settled as truth. We should take the Bible, and investigate it closely for ourselves. We should dig in the mine of God’s word for truth. “Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart.” Some have asked me if I thought there was any more light for the people of God. Our minds have become so narrow that we do not seem to understand that the Lord has a mighty work to do for us. Increasing light is to shine upon us; for “the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.”"—The Review and Herald, June 18, 1889. – CW p. 34


 Ian wrote: " I discussed the Passover with my Pastor and he seems to have precisely the same view as I have."

 Oh yeah, does he believe the annual Holy days of GOD were not abolished at the cross like you do? Or does he believe like the majority of SDA including Jason that the annual Holy days of GOD was abolished at the cross?

 

 

Blessings!

Peace


 Ian (Elijah) wrote: "You could not resist that one. Yes, I agree that the day did have significance as it was to my understanding the last of any time prophecy given. "


 Great brother Ian, I finally got the answer I knew you had to give, even though it's was on another post..

 We agree That the annual Holy days of GOD, in this case the Day of Atonement, Oct. 22,1844 was a significant Holy Day... and it was used by GOD for a great event in relation to the second advent of Jesus. I been looking for this answer I knew you had to give, But there is another side of you that says this,



 Ian wrote: "As I said before, it has not been put on the cross but has lost its significance ...."
 Ian wrote: "As I see it Just like the circumcision it has lost its significance ..."

 Now, can we agree the annual Holy days of GOD didn't lose its significance after the cross, and the side of you saying the Holy days of GOD did loose its significance after the cross are untruthful statements? 

Blessings!

Hello Reasoning

I am glad you don't see me as a dishonest person

Reasoning wrote: Again, the reason I know those statements aren't truthful, and that the annual Holy days of GOD still has significance after the cross is looking at Oct.22,1,844.. You say 1,810 years after the cross, fine, I'm just pointing out its eighteen centuries after the cross! That day was an annual Holy day of GOD, that Holy day was used for a great and significant event.... It shows the annual Holy days of GOD has significance after the cross, but your saying the annual Holy Convocations of GOD has lost significance after the cross. … You see the problem here? Maybe you honestly don't, but there is a problem!

No Reasoning I am sorry I do not see a problem. And as I said why should we keep a day that has no meaning? For example, we keep the Sabbath for many reasons and it is full of meaning. The Passover has no meaning whatsoever. The Day of Atonement in the same way has no meaning. Fair enough it was fulfilled in 1844 and no one was keeping it if you discount the ascension day when a lot of people was waiting for Christ's return. Only later did we get to understand that the day was right and the event was wrong. We developed the doctrine of “The Investigative Judgement” a doctrine unique to the SDA Church and we have copped plenty of criticism from other churches and even from our own ranks. To my mind, the day was fulfilled on 22 October 1844.

Reasoning Wrote: Ian wrote: "Do you draw a lot between two goats? Do you kill one and lead the other into the wilderness? And remember in order to do this you need to sacrifice a bull for your own sin first. These were Temple rituals that needed to be performed in the Temple where is the Temple? Why was the veil torn from top to bottom by an unseen hand? Jesus said: Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." … No, I don't preform OT rites & ceremonies on the annual Holy days of GOD... Jesus abolished the ceremonial law, but you and I know He didn't abolish the annual Holy days of GOD!

You do not perform those rites? To me, the question arises if you do not why do you keep the day? Those Days' Reasoning, was pointing forward to events that Jesus has fulfilled, so Why do we need to keep those days?

Reasoning Wrote: The same reason Luke, Paul and his converts continue to observe the annual Holy days of GOD, because they are Holy Convocations... and you agree they were not abolished. … Do you believe they were killing lambs and goats brother Ian or do you believe they were observing the NT ceremonies that Jesus instituted on the annual Holy days GOD prescribed? … Do you believe they were killing lambs and goats brother Ian or do you believe they were observing the NT ceremonies that Jesus instituted on the annual Holy days GOD prescribed?

I guess they were observing those days for the same reason as you do pure nostalgia. Apostle Paul had this to say, and I guess you know this is one well it's one of the Sunday-keepers favorite verses to justify keeping Sunday. But here I believe that is what Paul was meaning about those feast days you think we must keep.

Romans 14:5  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth, not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not and giveth God thanks. 7  For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8  For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 

Reasoning Wrote: Why are early Gentile Christians still observing the exact Holy day GOD prescribed brother Ian? Because the annual days of Holy Convocation of GOD are just that, Holy Convocations!

Yes, you do believe that and you are pretty much alone here in that belief. What I find hard to understand is why we need to keep a day that has been fulfilled in Jesus and is now just a hollow shell with no meaning. It meant plenty to the Jews because it was still to come for them. Do you have any explanation why Paul and some of the early Christian's was keeping it, as far as I can see they were just doing it because it was a nice thing to do, and indeed if you believe you need to you should do so according to the text I just quoted Because we do it to the Lord?

From Reasoning's last post: Now, can we agree the annual Holy days of GOD didn't lose its significance after the cross, and the side of you saying the Holy days of GOD did loose its significance after the cross are untruthful statements?

Clearly, The Day of Atonement had significance all the way up to 22 October 1844 when it was fulfilled by Jesus moving into the Most Holy. The only thing not fulfilled is Satan's final doom the great white throne Judgement. 

God Bless

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