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Peace

 Brothers and sisters of the SDA movement, this post is to show that the teaching within the Church that GOD'S Holy set times are done away with is wrong. Teaching the annual Holy Days of GOD are done away with weakens some our reasoning on why we should observe the 7th Day Sabbath. Let me show you how.

 When SDA teach about the 7th Day Sabbath, we use several reasoning methods to show that the 7th Day Sabbath is not done away with as many Christians believe. 

 One of them is, it was Jesus' custom  to observed the 7th Sabbath, and we should do what Jesus did, He is our example. For me, this is the most powerful proof that the 7th Day Sabbath is not done away with... I never heard anyone say there are things Jesus did that we shouldn't do, I always heard if Jesus did it, we should do it. 

 However, when it comes to applying that same reasoning to the annual Holy Days of GOD, that's not good enough for many in the SDA Church on why we should observe them. To me that's illegal reasoning, because you can't apply a reasoning point to one subject (the 7th Day Sabbath) and not use or ignore that same point on another subject (the annual Holy Days) that's within the same context, GOD'S Holy appointed times. 

 Whatever Jesus did, we should do. I don't believe anyone here will dispute this. 

 

 EGW: "The example of Christ is authoritative for every son and daughter of Adam.He represented the law of God in His life, giving to men an example of what obedience to every precept will accomplish for human nature. He is our example, and every one who is endowed with reasoning faculties is required to follow in His footsteps; for His life is a perfect pattern to all humanity. Christ is the finished standard of the character to which every one may attain. . . ." SD p.137

 

 With that said, let's ask ourselves, did Jesus observe the annual Holy Days of GOD along with the 7th Day Sabbath.. The answer is Yes! 

 


EGW: [Passover]-- " In the days of Christ the people had grown cold and formal in their service to God. They thought more of their own pleasure than of His goodness to them. But it was not so with Jesus. He loved to think about God. As He came to the temple, He watched the priests in their work. He bowed with the worshipers as they knelt to pray, and His voice joined in the songs of praise." SJ p.31

EGW: "Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm-trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days. And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute forever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month. Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: that your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." It was to the celebration of this feast that Jesus came. RH July 7,1896

 When teaching about the 7th Day Sabbath, and Jesus observing the Holy day, for me it's a slam dunk reason on why we should observe the Sabbath. Again, I never heard anyone say there are things that Jesus did that we shouldn't do. I always heard if Jesus did it, then it's good for us to do.

  


Lets look after the cross, is GOD'S people observing the Holy feast days of GOD? Lets look at Luke, Paul and converts, which were mostly gentiles

 
EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390

  Luke, Paul and his Phillippian converts kept the whole eight days of the feast. If I'm not mistaken, this is about 20 something years after Jesus' death and resurrection. 

 Their actions is positive proof that the annual Holy Days of GOD were still being kept by Christian Jews and Gentiles. Again, this is the same reasoning towards the 7th Day Sabbath, 

 

Joe Crews: "In Acts 16:13 we have positive proof that Paul kept the Sabbath even when there was no synagogue and no Jews. He was ministering in Greece, where there were only a few scattered Jews and no synagogue at all. What did he do on the Sabbath? “And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spoke unto the women which resorted thither.”
Even with no church to attend, the apostle sought out a spot where religious worship was carried on—a place of prayer by the river—and preached to those who went there. Surely, no one can fail to discern Paul’s deep commitment to the Sabbath as we follow him in this unusual outdoor mission. Just suppose this Macedonian experience had taken place on the first day of the week instead of the Sabbath. Without question, it would be cited as absolute evidence for Sunday worship, and we would have to concur. But what possible arguments can one present against this example of Paul in true Sabbath keeping."

 Let's get some commentary from Steve Wohlberg Of White horse media, it's the tenth reason on why The Sabbath is not just for the Jewish people.


Steve Wohlberg (White horse media) wrote: " 10) Luke was a Gentile who kept the Sabbath. Luke was the only Gentile who wrote any New Testament books (he wrote The Gospel According to St. Luke and The Acts of the Apostles). Luke traveled with Paul and wrote, “On the Sabbath we went out of the city by a river side.” Acts 16:13. It was the seventh-day Sabbath, the memorial of the creation (see Ex. 20:11). Both Luke and Paul knew it."

 Applying that same reasoning, which is a good reasoning to use for SDA to use when teaching why we should be still observing the 7th Day Sabbath, it is one of the reasons that led me to understanding the Sabbath truth, because like people say, actions speaks louder than words... Taking that same reasoning and applying it to the annual Holy Days of GOD must be good too.

 EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390

 Surly no one should believe they were sacrificing animals during this Passover celebration, so the argument that if we want to observe the annual Holy Days we must sacrifice animals, that holds no weight.

 Those who say we must be in Jerusalem to properly observe the annual Holy Days of GOD, that holds no weight. They were in Phillippi, not Jerusalem.  These are points of view that many SDA hold, because it's being taught by our teachers. 

 I highly respect Doug Batchelor, probably the most recognized SDA today.. I heard him teach on why Christians are not obligated to observe the annual Holy Days of GOD... some of them are, The Ten Commandments are written on stone, and annual Holy Days are written on paper, another one is, The Ten Commandments are inside the Ark and the commandments about the annual Holy Days are on the side of the Ark.. None of that holds any weight, because SDA fully understand that there are commandments written on that paper and put on the side of the Ark that we say are still binding, like the health laws.

 

 

Doug Batchelor: "2. Why did God give health principles to His people?
"The Lord commanded us to observe all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that He might preserve us alive” (Deuteronomy 6:24).
“You shall serve the Lord your God, and He will bless your bread and your water. And I will take sickness away from the midst of you” (Exodus 23:25).

Answer: God gave health principles because He knows what is best for the human body. Automobile manufacturers place an operations manual in the glove compartment of each new car because they know what is best for their creation. God, who made our bodies, also has an “operations manual.” It is the Bible. Ignoring God’s “operations manual” often results in disease, twisted thinking, and burned-out lives, just as abusing a car can result in serious car trouble. Following God’s principles results in “saving health” (Psalm 67:2 KJV) and more abundant life (John 10:10). With our cooperation, God can use these great health laws to significantly reduce and eliminate the effects of the diseases of Satan (Psalm 103:2, 3)."

  The argument that the annual Holy Days of GOD are done away with because they are written on paper and on the side of the Ark, and at the same time saying laws (health) written on the same paper and placed on the side of the Ark are still binding shows that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. We have to properly identify what is the moral laws and what was ceremonial temple worship laws (the bath water).  We find that out by the actions of Jesus and the Apostles. Again, Jesus observed the annual Holy Days of GOD, so without a doubt we can say they are moral.

 EGW: "In consequence of continual transgression, the moral law was repeated in awful grandeur from Sinai. Christ gave to Moses religious precepts which were to govern the everyday life. These statutes were explicitly given to guard the ten commandments. They were not shadowy types to pass away with the death of Christ. They were to be binding upon man in every age as long as time should last. These commands were enforced by the power of the moral law, and they clearly and definitely explained that law. "–  RH May 6, 1875 

 The term ceremonial feast days is used often, but the term is not used nowhere in the Bible or SOP in the writings of EGW. But unfortunately many SDA use the term to strengthen their argument on why we shouldn't observe the annual Holy Days. Of course when we hear ceremonial, we automatically know the ceremonial laws was done away with at the Cross. So ceremonial is attached to the annual Holy Days. There were ceremonies done on all of GOD'S Holy Days including the 7th Day Sabbath , but the day itself is not a ceremony. 

 

 Where does this teaching come from? Who takes responsibility for trying to change GOD'S annual Holy Days? It's the same people who thinks to change times and laws, the Roman Catholic Church!

 

Daniel 7:25 (King James Version)
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


 Most SDA know this verse, and we mainly apply it to the Sabbath, but it's talking about the Feast days as well... Lets go to several other translations of the Bible... It sheds more light on what these "times"(Plural) are..


Daniel 7:25 (Amplified Bible)
"And he shall speak words against the Most High [God] and shall wear out the saints of the Most High and think to change the time [of sacred feasts and holy days] and the law; and the saints shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time [three and one-half years].


Daniel 7:25 (New Living Translation)
"He will defy the Most High and oppress the holy people of the Most High. He will try to change their sacred festivals and laws, and they will be placed under his control for a time, times, and half a time.


Dan. 7:25 (New American Bible)

"He shall speak against the Most High and oppress the holy ones of the Most High, thinking to change the feast days and the law. They shall be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time


Daniel 7:25Christian Standard Bible (CSB)

25 He will speak words against the Most High and oppress[a] the holy ones of the Most High. He will intend to change religious festivals and laws, and the holy ones will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time.


Daniel 7:25 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

25 He will speak against the Most High God, oppress the holy people of the Most High, and plan to change the appointed times and laws. The holy people will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half of a time.

Daniel 7:25Good News Translation (GNT)

25 He will speak against the Supreme God and oppress God's people. He will try to change their religious laws and festivals, and God's people will be under his power for three and a half years.


Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

25 He will speak words against the Most High and oppress[a] the holy ones of the Most High. He will intend to change religious festivals[b] and laws, and the holy ones will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time

   AT Jones gives a History lesson in the book Great empires of Prophecy, he said


"From Rome there came now another addition to the sunworshipping apostasy. The first Christians being mostly Jews, continued to celebrate, in remembrance of the death of Christ, the true Passover; and this was continued among those who from among the Gentles had turned to Christ. Accordingly, the celebration was always on the Passover day, the fourteenth of the first month. Rome, however, and from her all the West, adopted the day of the sun as the day of this coloration. According to the Eastern custom, the celebration, being on the fourteenth day of the month, would of course fall on different days of the week as the years resolved. The rule of Rome was that the celebration must always be on a Sunday." (Great Empires of Prophecy, 1898, p. 389 by A.T. Jones)

 At SDA crusades we like to show the Roman Catholic Church speaking these words against The Most High, and admitting they are the reason for this attempted change. Let see,

 For 25 Years Father Enright Offers $1,000 For A Bible Verse Commanding Sunday Observance:

“Dear Friend, I have
offered and still offer $1000 to any one who can prove to me from
the Bible alone that I am bound, under grievous sin to keep
Sunday holy. It was the Catholic Church which made the law
obliging us to keep Sunday holy. The church made this law long
after the Bible was written. Hence said law is not in the Bible.
Christ, our Lord empowered his church to make laws binding in
conscience. He said to his apostles and their lawful sucessors in
the priesthood “Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be
binding in heaven.” Matthew 16:19. Matthew 18:17. Luke 16:19.
The Cath. Church abolished not only the Sabbath, but all the other Jewish festivals. Pray and study. I shall be always glad to help you as long as you honestly seek the truth. Respectfully, T.
Enright CSSR.” June 1905

  It's not just the 7th Day Sabbath people of GOD, they take credit for trying to abolish the annual Holy Days of GOD too. Let's check out some more..

 This from the Catholic Catechism, by Peter Cardinal Gasparri, translated by the Rev. Hugh Pope, O.P., second printing, copyright 1932 and printed by P. J. Kenedy & Sons, Typographi Pontificii, 12 Barclay Street, New York, questions 203-206, pages 120-121.


(204) What were the festival days in the Old Testament?

In the Old Testament there were many festival days, but the chief one was the Sabbath, the very name of which signifies the rest needful for the worship of God, whence it is called "the day of rest."


"(205) Why is the Sabbath day not observed under the New Testament?

The Sabbath day is not observed under the New Testament, because in its place the Church keeps Sunday in honor of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the coming down of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost; the Church also adds other festival days.

(206) To what, then, are we bound nowadays as regards keeping festival days holy?

As regards keeping festival days holy we are to-day bound to sanctify, in the manner proscribed by the Church, the Sundays and other Feast days appointed by her."

   This is from the Catechism of Pope Pius X:

2 Q. What are festivals?

A. In the Old Law they were Saturdays and certain other days regarded as specially solemn by the Jews; in the New Law they are Sundays and other festivals instituted by the Church

 Again, we know these statements all to well, however this shows it wasn't just the 7th Day Sabbath trying to be done away with by the Catholic Church, but the annual Holy Days of GOD as well. 

   After Paul's time, we see from the facts of history that this battle continued, there were Christians that were Gentiles like Polycrates that observed the annual Holy time of GOD when HE said to observe it, and not listen to the Catholic Church. 

 Polycrates wrote:  "We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man' --- (Eusebius. Church History, Book V, Chapter 24. Translated by Arthur Cushman McGiffert. Excerpted from Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series Two, Volume 1. Edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace. American Edition, 1890. Online Edition Copyright © 2004 by K. Knight; also Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book 5, Chapter XXIV. Digireads.com, 2005, p. 115).

  He covered from the Apostles to his time, and all observed the Passover on the day that GOD prescribed, the 14th day of the first month. 

 So the question many SDA have to ask themselves is, why are we taking the side of the Catholic Church in regards to the annual Holy Days of GOD and saying they are done away with, and not the side of Jesus, the apostles, and the early Christian church who continued to observed them? 

 

Blessings!

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Peace 

 

  Ian wrote: "If something is abolished I would assume it would say so. Perhaps you would explain what you see that EGW is telling us in that passage seeing you do not see it as I do? And keep in mind EGW never told us to keep this day, and she did not keep it herself. She knew Paul was doing it as well."

  

  I did explain it to you brother Ian, you actually copy & pasted it, but you left out the key part of my response to show you it's not what you think. So I will post it again, 

 Your reading into something that is not there... When SOP says, "The national festival of the Jews was to pass away forever.."...
 That is not saying the annual Holy days of GOD was abolished or ended, but it being national requirement to observe the annual Holy days was to pass away, in other words going Jerusalem to the temple was passed away forever.

Here's the part you left out,


 We know because SOP says right after that ".. The service which Christ established was to be observed by His followers in all lands and through all ages.".

  So EGW said its not a national festival anymore, and that it can be observed in all lands, of course with the ceremonies Jesus instituted.


 Also we know because the annual Holy days of GOD continued to be observed by the apostles and Gentile Christians after the cross..  That's not being passed away forever. 

  Ian wrote: "Still, insisting on calling me a liar? Compare with circumcision it was not abolished it had just lost its meaning. It was a rite for the children of Abraham in the flesh. But not for the children of Abraham in the Spirit. To me in the same way is the Passover in the same class, it lost its meaning at the Passover when Jesus instituted the Holy Supper, as EGW points out in that quote. As I pointed out in the previous post, Jesus in His form as God, told Moses how to Keep the Passover, and to me, that would have been binding on Israel's children all the way up to the time when Jesus instituted the Holy Supper. So the question is why was Jesus not keeping it as prescribed? Keeping in mind He was the Spotless Lamb who atoned for our Sin and could only be so if he kept all the commands binding on the Children of Israel."

   No, I didn't call you a liar... I said your saying two different things!

 But to be officially on record, Ian #2 teaching the annual Holy Convocations of GOD are ended/abolished on the cross is a lie! 

 You keep trying to put the annual Holy days of GOD on the same level as circumcision and I addressed this false claim of yours. So let me do it again.

 EGW: "There were those in Paul’s day who were constantly dwelling upon circumcision, and they could bring plenty of proof from the Bible to show its obligation on the Jews; but this teaching was of no consequence at this time; for Christ had died upon Calvary’s cross, and circumcision in the flesh could not be of any further value. The typical service and the ceremonies connected with it were abolished at the cross.

  SOP says Circumcision was abolished at the cross brother Ian, but you say,

  Ian wrote: "Compare with circumcision it was not abolished it had just lost its meaning..,"

 

 Who should I believe Ian, you or SOP? I'll go with the SOP... and that would make your statement a lie!! You started from this not being a hobby horse of yours to making things up. 

 

  

 Ian wrote: "Yes as I have pointed out before the JW keep it on that day not the Passover but the Holy Supper that they do not partake of but that is another issue for another time. Would it be that A T Jones was thinking to keep the Holy Supper on a precise day? As was Paul? And Polycrates? And what do we do with the scripture “1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.” This text to me tell me we can do it more than once a year."

  Yes, we agree, it can be done more than once a year, SOP confirm this, 

 EGW: "Therefore, the Lord’s supper was not to be observed only occasionally or yearly, but more frequently than the annual passover."

  .. but that doesn't mean not to observe the Lord's Supper that one time of the year that GOD prescribed.  If I said your birthday is not to be celebrated only occasionally or yearly, but more frequently than your annual birthday, that doesn't mean we ignore the day you were born. 

 A.T Jones was just giving a history lesson, and he points out that there were Gentile Christians still observing the annual Holy days of GOD. Polycrates said 

  
Polycrates wrote: "We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man' --- (Eusebius. Church History, Book V, Chapter 24. Translated by Arthur Cushman McGiffert. Excerpted from Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series Two, Volume 1. Edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace. American Edition, 1890. Online Edition Copyright © 2004 by K. Knight; also Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book 5, Chapter XXIV. Digireads.com, 2005, p. 115).

  So, despite the terrifying words from Rome, he said he will continue to observe the Lord's Supper on the 14th day of the month, which was past down to him from two apostles (Phillip & John), three martyrs and others. That shows us the annual Holy days of GOD wasn't ended at the cross like you (Ian #2) teach.. and yes, with this evidence,  I believe what your (Ian #2) teaching is a lie!

  Bless!

Hello Reasoning

Reasoning Wrote: “No, I didn't call you a liar... I said your saying two different things!

But to be officially on record, Ian #2 teaching the annual Holy Convocations of GOD are ended/abolished on the cross is a lie!

I did explain it to you brother Ian, you actually copy & pasted it, but you left out the key part of my response to show you it's not what you think. So I will post it again,

You keep trying to put the annual Holy days of GOD on the same level as circumcision and I addressed this false claim of yours. So let me do it again.”Your reading into something that is not there... When SOP says, "The national festival of the Jews was to pass away forever.."...

That is not saying the annual Holy days of GOD was abolished or ended, but it being national requirement to observe the annual Holy days was to pass away, in other words going Jerusalem to the temple was passed away forever.

Here's the part you left out,

We know because SOP says right after that ".. The service which Christ established was to be observed by His followers in all lands and through all ages.".

So EGW said its not a national festival anymore, and that it can be observed in all lands, of course with the ceremonies Jesus instituted.”

In the same way as you read that quote from EGW I get something different from it.

“The Lord Jesus the same night in which He was betrayed took bread: and when He had given thanks, He brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is My body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of Me. After the same manner also He took the cup, when He had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in My blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of Me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord’s death till He come.” 1 Corinthians 11:23-26. {DA 652.1}

Christ was standing at the point of transition between two economies and their two great festivals. He, the spotless Lamb of God, was about to present Himself as a sin offering, that He would thus bring to an end the system of types and ceremonies that for four thousand years had pointed to His death. As He ate the Passover with His disciples, He instituted in its place the service that was to be the memorial of His great sacrifice. The national festival of the Jews was to pass away forever. The service which Christ established was to be observed by His followers in all lands and through all ages. {DA 652.2}

The Passover was ordained as a commemoration of the deliverance of Israel from Egyptian bondage. God had directed that, year by year, as the children should ask the meaning of this ordinance, the history should be repeated. Thus the wonderful deliverance was to be kept fresh in the minds of all. The ordinance of the Lord’s Supper was given to commemorate the great deliverance wrought out as the result of the death of Christ. Till He shall come the second time in power and glory, this ordinance is to be celebrated. It is the means by which His great work for us is to be kept fresh in our minds. {DA 652.3}

At the time of their deliverance from Egypt, the children of Israel ate the Passover supper standing, with their loins girded, and with their staves in their hands, ready for their journey. The manner in which they celebrated this ordinance harmonized with their condition; for they were about to be thrust out of the land of Egypt, and were to begin a painful and difficult journey through the wilderness. But in Christ’s time the condition of things had changed. They were not now about to be thrust out of a strange country, but were dwellers in their own land. In harmony with the rest that had been given them, the people then partook of the Passover supper in a reclining position. Couches were placed about the table, and the guests lay upon them, resting upon the left arm, and having the right hand free for use in eating. In this position a guest could lay his head upon the breast of the one who sat next above him. And the feet, being at the outer edge of the couch, could be washed by one passing around the outside of the circle. {DA 653.1}

The emphasis of this chapter is on the new ordinance the Holy Supper! Not about keeping the Passover. Or that is what I get from it as I understand you have a different view. But it says “He instituted in its place, That to me Reasoning it says that the Passover has no meaning anymore. As well as He said, “as oft as ye drink it.” Meaning it is totally different from the Passover that was kept but once a year with the hollow shell as it has become devoid of meaning.

And we keep saying the same thing you insisting it is still an ordinance and need to be observed. And me saying it has been replaced with the Holy Supper.

Happy Sabbath

Peace 

   

  Ian wrote: "In the same way as you read that quote from EGW I get something different from it."

   I know, but if you reason and understand that the observance of the annual fixed days of GOD was continued after the cross, then maybe you can see it's not what you think. 

  It's amazing how you totally ignore a lie you told... Let me post it again,

  You keep trying to put the annual Holy days of GOD on the same level as circumcision and I addressed this false claim of yours. 


 EGW: "There were those in Paul’s day who were constantly dwelling upon circumcision, and they could bring plenty of proof from the Bible to show its obligation on the Jews; but this teaching was of no consequence at this time; for Christ had died upon Calvary’s cross, and circumcision in the flesh could not be of any further value. The typical service and the ceremonies connected with it were abolished at the cross."


 

 SOP says Circumcision was abolished at the cross brother Ian, but you say,


 Ian wrote: "Compare with circumcision it was not abolished it had just lost its meaning..,"

  So my brother, who is correct, you or SOP? 

    For me, I'm going with the SOP!! 

 Bless! 

Hello Reasoning 

We are clearly at a stalemate and you insist on calling me a liar as for me I had enough for now. 

God bless 

Peace 

   

   Ian wrote: "We are clearly at a stalemate and you insist on calling me a liar as for me I had enough for now. "

  Bro., I don't insist on calling you anything, I'm just a filthy rag...

 It's you who insist on telling a lie... You made the statement.

 EGW says circumcision was abolished and you say it wasn't abolished at the cross. 

  

 Two different views, who should we believe brother Ian? 

 Of course we believe the SOP, and the best thing for you is to correct yourself...  If you do that then your circumcision theory that you been using since the beginning of our discussion falls apart. That's why I said you can't put the annual Holy days of GOD on the same level as circumcision.

 The annual Holy days of Convocation wasn't abolished on the cross, and the sliver lining is that we agree on that.

 

 Ian wrote: "As for why keeping the Passover, has me stumped as I understand there is no salvific significance for doing it and as you point out that it was not abolished by Jesus or any Apostle."

 Ian wrote: "Although EGW does not say directly that the Passover is to be abolished."

 Ian wrote: "Now I should say that Jesus did not abolish it and as you have pointed out prominent early Christians like Paul and Polycarp were keeping it

  

 Blessings! 

Peace 
 

  Ian wrote: "We are clearly at a stalemate and you insist on calling me a liar as for me I had enough for now. "


  No, we are not at a stalemate, you realized that you are saying things differently from what the SOP in the writings of EGW teaches.
 It's not that I insist on calling you a liar, you have made a statement 


 Ian wrote: "Compare with circumcision it was not abolished it had just lost its meaning..,"


 Your statement has made you a lair, why do I say that? Because, and again, SOP in the writings of EGW says differently 

 



 EGW: "There were those in Paul’s day who were constantly dwelling upon circumcision, and they could bring plenty of proof from the Bible to show its obligation on the Jews; but this teaching was of no consequence at this time; for Christ had died upon Calvary’s cross, and circumcision in the flesh could not be of any further value. The typical service and the ceremonies connected with it were abolished at the cross."


 Who should I believe? You or SOP? Again, of course I'm going with the SOP. You just need change your statement, and other statements. But unfortunately you just make false statements and say that I insist on calling you a lair and that we are at a stalemate. That's far from the truth my brother. 

 But thank you for your time... Now I can get back to sounding the alarm to the 7th Day Adventist people. We have been taught false things when it comes to the annual Holy Convocations of GOD. The term "ceremonial feast days" is found nowhere in the Bible or SOP in the writings of EGW, but when being discussed it's used by many SDA often. 


 It's used to put a ceremonial light on annual Holy days of GOD, which are moral.. We been told that if a person wants to properly observe the annual Holy days of GOD then they have to be sacrificing animals in Jerusalem at the temple, that isn't there anymore. That theory crumbles in light of Luke, Paul and his converts in Philppi observing the annual Holy days of GOD.. 


  EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390

  Luke, Paul and his converts aren't sacrificing animals, and they are not in Jerusalem at the temple. So the assumption if someone teaches and promotes observing the annual Holy days of GOD, then they must observe it with sacrificing animals and be at the temple in Jerusalem is just that, an assumption, and unfortunately a lie. 


  Almost 200 hundred years after the cross, Rome is not only trying to abolished the 7th Day Sabbath, but also the annual Holy days of GOD.
 

 Polycrates wrote: "We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man' --- (Eusebius. Church History, Book V, Chapter 24. Translated by Arthur Cushman McGiffert. Excerpted from Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series Two, Volume 1. Edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace. American Edition, 1890. Online Edition Copyright © 2004 by K. Knight; also Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book 5, Chapter XXIV. Digireads.com, 2005, p. 115).


  Gentiles observing the annual set time of GOD 200 hundred years after the cross, and telling Rome they will not conform to their teachings. A teaching that they acknowledge and claim of creating 


 For 25 Years Father Enright Offers $1,000 For A Bible Verse Commanding Sunday Observance:


 "Dear Friend, I have
offered and still offer $1000 to any one who can prove to me from
the Bible alone that I am bound, under grievous sin to keep
Sunday holy. It was the Catholic Church which made the law
obliging us to keep Sunday holy. The church made this law long
after the Bible was written. Hence said law is not in the Bible.
Christ, our Lord empowered his church to make laws binding in
conscience. He said to his apostles and their lawful sucessors in
the priesthood “Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be
binding in heaven.” Matthew 16:19. Matthew 18:17. Luke 16:19.
The Cath. Church abolished not only the Sabbath, but all the other Jewish festivals. Pray and study. I shall be always glad to help you as long as you honestly seek the truth. Respectfully, T.
Enright CSSR.” June 1905


 The Bible confirm this as well.. 


 
Daniel 7:25 (Amplified Bible)

  "And he shall speak words against the Most High [God] and shall wear out the saints of the Most High and think to change the time [of sacred feasts and holy days] and the law; and the saints shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time [three and one-half years].


Daniel 7:25 (New Living Translation)


 "He will defy the Most High and oppress the holy people of the Most High. He will try to change their sacred festivals and laws, and they will be placed under his control for a time, times, and half a time.


Dan. 7:25 (New American Bible)


 "He shall speak against the Most High and oppress the holy ones of the Most High, thinking to change the feast days and the law. They shall be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time


Daniel 7:25 (Christian Standard Bible (CSB)


 25 He will speak words against the Most High and oppress[a] the holy ones of the Most High. He will intend to change religious festivals and laws, and the holy ones will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time.

 


 If you look in Lev.23, you will see the feast days of GOD are the 7th Day Sabbath and the annual sabbaths. Many SDA teachers try to separate them in Lev.23, however the context of chapter 23 is the Holy Feast of GOD.


  My SDA brothers and sisters, we have been taught lies in regards to the annual Holy days of GOD. The lies are being taught by many well respected teachers in the Church, and I believe it's because they've been taught that the annual Holy days/Convocations of GOD are ceremonial. 

  The best thing to do is see the truth presented and change your thinking and ways.

 What would people in the SDA Church have to do if they accept the truth presented about the annual Holy Convocations of GOD?

 Simply add more days of Holy Convocation to your calendar, more time set aside to worship GOD! 

 Blessings!

"At the time of the siege, the Jews were assembled at Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles, and thus the Christians throughout the land were able to make their escape unmolested." — (Ellen G. White, Great Controversy, 30.4)

"The Jews had prided themselves upon their divinely appointed services; and they concluded that as God once specified the Hebrew manner of worship, it was impossible that he should ever authorize a change in any of its specifications. They decided that Christianity must connect itself with the Jewish laws and ceremonies. They were slow to discern to the end of that which had been abolished by the death of Christ, and to perceive that all their sacrificial offerings had but prefigured the death of the Son of God, in which type had met its antitype rendering valueless the divinely appointed ceremonies and sacrifices of the Jewish religion.

Paul had prided himself upon his Pharisaical strictness; but after the revelation of Christ to him on the road to Damascus, the mission of the Saviour, and his own work in the conversion of the Gentiles, were plain to his mind; and he fully comprehended the difference between a living faith and a dead formalism. Paul still claimed to be one of the children of Abraham, and kept the ten commandments in letter and in spirit as faithfully as he had ever done before his conversion to Christianity. But he knew that the typical ceremonies must soon altogether cease, since that which they had shadowed forth had come to pass, and the light of the gospel was shedding its glory upon the Jewish religion, giving a new significance to its ancient rites." — (Ellen G. White, Sketches from the Life of Paul, 64.2-65.1)

The passover suppers had been scenes of special interest; but upon this occasion Jesus was troubled in spirit, and his disciples sympathized with his grief although they knew not its cause. THIS WAS VIRTUALLY THE LAST PASSOVER THAT WAS EVER TO BE CELEBRATED; for type was to meet antitype in the slaying of the Lamb of God for the sins of the world. Christ was soon to receive his full baptism of suffering; but the few quiet hours between him and Gethsemane were to be spent for the benefit of his disciples." — (E.G. White, 3SP 83.3)

The NATIONAL FESTIVAL OF THE JEWS WAS TO PASS AWAY FOREVER. The service which Christ established was to be observed by His followers in all lands and through all ages." — (Ellen G. White, Desire of Ages, 652)

"At the very moment that Christ had expired, the heavy veil of tapestry, made of pure linen, and beautifully wrought with scarlet and purple, had been rent from top to bottom. The place where Jehovah had met with the priest, to communicate His glory, the place that had been God's sacred audience chamber, lay open to every eye—a place no longer recognized by the Lord. Many who at that time united in the services of the Passover never again took part in them. Light was to shine into their hearts. The disciples were to communicate to them the knowledge that the great Teacher had come." — (Ellen G. White, 12MR 418.1)

"On the fourteenth day of the month, at even, the Passover was celebrated, its solemn, impressive ceremonies commemorating the deliverance from bondage in Egypt, and pointing forward to the sacrifice that should deliver from the bondage of sin. When the Saviour yielded up His life on Calvary, the significance of the Passover ceased, and the ordinance of the Lord's Supper was instituted as a memorial of the same event of which the Passover had been a type." — (Ellen G. White, Patriarchs and Prophets, 539.5)

"Jesus had appointed to meet His disciples in Galilee; and soon after the Passover week was ended, they bent their steps thither. Their ABSENCE from Jerusalem during the feast would have been interpreted as disaffection and heresy, therefore they remained till its close; but this over, they gladly turned homeward to meet the Saviour as He had directed." — (E.G. White, DA809)

Peace

   Brother Jason, usually people would add their reasoning or understanding to what you think SOP in the writings of EGW is saying.. But it's ok, I know what you think already. So let's go over what you posted.

 EGW : "Jesus had appointed to meet His disciples in Galilee; and soon after the Passover week was ended, they bent their steps thither. Their absence from Jerusalem during the feast would have been interpreted as disaffection and heresy, therefore they remained till its close; but this over, they gladly turned homeward to meet the Saviour as He had directed. – DA p. 809

   I don't know what this is saying to you Jason, but it's saying they stayed in Jerusalem till Passover week was ended. Nothing here saying the annual Holy days of GOD are abolished or done away with.   

  EGW: ""On the fourteenth day of the month, at even, the Passover was celebrated, its solemn, impressive ceremonies commemorating the deliverance from bondage in Egypt, and pointing forward to the sacrifice that should deliver from the bondage of sin. When the Saviour yielded up His life on Calvary, the significance of the Passover ceased, and the ordinance of the Lord's Supper was instituted as a memorial of the same event of which the Passover had been a type." — Ellen G. White, Patriarchs and Prophets, 539

  Yes, the significance of sacrificing the Passover lamb ceased... However the observance of the Passover days did not cease. How do we know brother Jason? 

  EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390

  The truth is that the annual Holy days of GOD did not cease being observed by the early Church. Over twenty years after the cross, Luke, Paul and his converts are still observing the annual Holy Convocations of GOD.

 EGW: "The NATIONAL FESTIVAL OF THE JEWS WAS TO PASS AWAY FOREVER. The service which Christ established was to be observed by His followers in all lands and through all ages." — (Ellen G. White, Desire of Ages, 652)

   Yes, observing the annual Holy days of GOD wasn't a national requirement, it wasn't a requirement to be in Jerusalem anymore, that passed away forever. 


 EGW : "At the very moment that Christ had expired, the heavy veil of tapestry, made of pure linen, and beautifully wrought with scarlet and purple, had been rent from top to bottom. The place where Jehovah had met with the priest, to communicate His glory, the place that had been God's sacred audience chamber, lay open to every eye—a place no longer recognized by the Lord. Many who at that time united in the services of the Passover never again took part in them. Light was to shine into their hearts. The disciples were to communicate to them the knowledge that the great Teacher had come." — (Ellen G. White, 12MR 418.1)

  This is saying once the veil rent from top to bottom, the temple in Jerusalem was a place no longer recognize by the Lord. Nowhere does it say the Holy days of GOD are abolished. 

 EGW: "The passover suppers had been scenes of special interest; but upon this occasion Jesus was troubled in spirit, and his disciples sympathized with his grief although they knew not its cause. THIS WAS VIRTUALLY THE LAST PASSOVER THAT WAS EVER TO BE CELEBRATED; for type was to meet antitype in the slaying of the Lamb of God for the sins of the world. Christ was soon to receive his full baptism of suffering; but the few quiet hours between him and Gethsemane were to be spent for the benefit of his disciples." — (E.G. White, 3SP 83.3)

  If you think SOP is talking about the annual Holy days of GOD then your wrong... Because SOP confirms that Luke, Paul and his converts over twenty years after the cross still observed the annual Holy Convocations of GOD. 

 EGW: ""At the time of the siege, the Jews were assembled at Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles, and thus the Christians throughout the land were able to make their escape unmolested." — (Ellen G. White, Great Controversy, 30.4)

  Nowhere here does it say the annual Holy days of GOD are abolished... Almost two hundred years after the cross we find Gentiles were still observing the annual holy time of GOD.

  Polycrates wrote: "We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man' --- (Eusebius. Church History, Book V, Chapter 24. Translated by Arthur Cushman McGiffert. Excerpted from Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series Two, Volume 1. Edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace. American Edition, 1890. Online Edition Copyright © 2004 by K. Knight; also Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book 5, Chapter XXIV. Digireads.com, 2005, p. 115).

  

  This is way after 70AD and the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem... 200 years after the cross there are Gentiles still observing the days GOD prescribed. Philp and John continued to observe the annual Holy Convocations of GOD and that was passed down to the Gentiles. 

   


 EGW: "The Jews had prided themselves upon their divinely appointed services; and they concluded that as God once specified the Hebrew manner of worship, it was impossible that he should ever authorize a change in any of its specifications. They decided that Christianity must connect itself with the Jewish laws and ceremonies. They were slow to discern to the end of that which had been abolished by the death of Christ, and to perceive that all their sacrificial offerings had but prefigured the death of the Son of God, in which type had met its antitype rendering valueless the divinely appointed ceremonies and sacrifices of the Jewish religion.
Paul had prided himself upon his Pharisaical strictness; but after the revelation of Christ to him on the road to Damascus, the mission of the Saviour, and his own work in the conversion of the Gentiles, were plain to his mind; and he fully comprehended the difference between a living faith and a dead formalism. Paul still claimed to be one of the children of Abraham, and kept the ten commandments in letter and in spirit as faithfully as he had ever done before his conversion to Christianity. But he knew that the typical ceremonies must soon altogether cease, since that which they had shadowed forth had come to pass, and the light of the gospel was shedding its glory upon the Jewish religion, giving a new significance to its ancient rites." — (Ellen G. White, Sketches from the Life of Paul, 64.2-65.1)

  Yes, the divinely appointed ceremonies and sacrifices, the ceremonial law that GOD gave was abolished on the cross. Again, nothing here saying the annual Holy days/Convocations of GOD was abolished. 

  Brother Jason, trust me, I heard the arguments against the annual Holy days of GOD from many SDA, but as I've shown here in this discussion, much of it doesn't hold weight. Where in the Bible or SOP in the writings of EGW does it call the annual Holy Convocations of GOD "ceremonial feast days"? I find that nowhere, but why do many SDA use the term.  Holy days of Convocation that belongs to GOD is not ceremonial law, its moral law. 

  Blessings!

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