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I have in-laws that hate God yet they go to the Adventist Church and have very high positions with the said church...  How do I live with unkind and ungracious people?   The answer might just be move out.

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Andrew, How is this possible?  I thought I had problems with my family but this is bad.  Sorry my friend, prayers.


When people refuse to repent this is just the consequences of years without the knowledge of the True God.  And continued refusal to see the light.

If they are truly wicked, with no conscience then live elsewhere and have no contact with them. I had to do that with some people because they were completely evil seed of the serpent relatives. They sold out all the way, known by their behavior as well as revelation of discerning of spirits. Because they were relatives it took a lot of time to accept and understand the reality of the situation. Your life will be peaceful, less stressful and blessed to be away from wicked people. How can they have high positions in the church? Wolves in sheeps clothing. The wicked have infiltrated every denomination and most non-denominational groups.

Honestly the hardest people to show the truth are usually the ones that already have convictions or strong opinions. It's especially true for those that also have a taste for authority/power or are consumed by pride.  Sad when those misguided convictions lead to actions like what you described.  

Have you ever tried asking them why they act the way they do?  

John 18:20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing. 

21 Why askest thou me? ask them which heard me, what I have said unto them: behold, they know what I said.

22 And when he had thus spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand, saying, Answerest thou the high priest so? 

23 Jesus answered him, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou me?

Depending on their answer it just might be best to move on.

God Bless you and give you strength.

This problem of syncretism is prevalent in the Adventist Church all over the world. Not one in twenty is truly converted.
I know of three methods of determination of whether someone is saved or not.

1. You know the person long enough that you see their life, manner and heart, showing genuine love of God towards others, not just a deceptive show as wolf in sheep's cothing. If a person gave their life for someone else, that may be a strong indication. If someone continually shows the characteristics of either a child of God or of the wicked, that would be indicative of which God one was worshipping. Adolf Hiter was a child of the Devil by all indications.

2. Speaking In Tongues is a sign: must be by freedom of will, speaking by the spirit of God. Operation of any manifestation of holy spirit is also indicative. Tongues not required for salvation, but important as all the manifestations are.

3. Revelation: Discerning of spirits; given by divine revelation, not through judging of the flesh. If 100% correct doctrine was required for salvation, then none would be saved, for we know in part and prophesy in part (most do not prophesy, another neglection of duty, and many know little). Romans 10:9-10 required for salvation.

Any one of these is indication of salvation, but if you have all three, you are on extremely solid ground. But ultimately it is the judgment of God that determines, as it says not to say who will ascend into heaven or descend etc. 1 in 20 truly converted, I hope that figure is wrong, wishing for savation instead of condemnation. I will not
respond directly to JasonM on this matter. Man's judgment is very often flawed and false.
Jesus said only few people will be saved... I spoke on being converted not salvation but you came with your flawed criteria on knowing who is saved. Who is the one doing the judging?

What you have concocted here is not biblical. These methods are not from Christ....

Nearly all the churches have left Jesus outside. The Holy Spirit is not in their midst. The speak nonsense in church. This shows you how far they are from Christ. The fruit of the Spirit is not seen in these so called christians. Some lie, cheat etc...

Many Christians who are involved in doing good are children of the devil. They have not allowed Jesus as the center of their lives. Etc etc
"What you have concocted here is not Biblical. These methods are not from Christ."
JasonM makes sweeping statements that do not prove anything other than his opinion. He has not proven from the Bible how to know if someone is a child of God or a child of the Devil, or neither.

How does he propose that believers are to know the spirituality of anyone?

My original statement is based on scriptures and practice.

1. Knowing the person over a long enough period of time etc. love of God manifested. Biblical knowing the life and heart of others.
2. Speaking in tongues or other manifestations of Holy Spirit manifested. Manifestations of Holy Spirit is Biblical.
3. Discerning of spirits which is revelation from God. Revelation from God is Biblical.

If you have one of these indicators, that is evidence, if you have two is better. If you have all three you are on pretty solid grounds and evidence. On its face (prima facia evidence) these methods are Biblical.

This is posted for everyone else's benefit, so they are not mislead by foolish and unfounded and anti-Biblical foolery by unlearned and not walking by the spirit individual.

Outward appearances can be deceiving, that's why discernng of spirits is a manifestation of Holy Spirit.
How did Paul know of the child of the Devil in Acts 13:5-12?

"And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.
And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus:
Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
But Elymas the sorcerer † (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
Then Saul, † (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, † set his eyes on him,
And said, O full of all subtlety and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.
Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord."
Conversion: "a spiritual enlightenment causing a person to lead a new life
syn: rebirth, spiritual rebirth." Dictionary definition.

Being born again: born from above, spiritually born, a new creature, a new creation, by receiving Holy Spirit. That is Salvation, as the person is now body, soul AND SPIRIT.

THE TWO TERMS ARE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME. When a person I speak saved (converted) he is now a child of God, on a spiritual path, has eternal life by promise from God. If that is not a conversion, then nothing is, it is the gift of God by faith, not works.

SO as they are already saved can they be lost in the end if they reject Jesus? 

Had trouble posting, error occurred should read ...when a person is saved (converted) he is...
Disregard "I speak..."

Salvation is salvation. Not by works but faith. Either the individual is SAVED or God is a liar?
Romans 10:9-10. Salvation is being born again.


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