I have to tell someone that the testimonies of Jesus is the SOP but I have no idea how to explain that if the person asks. Can anyone please help?
JohnB, Let me explain this again because I’m not sure what is meant by “it is telling.”
The brethren are identified in Revelation 22:8
for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets…
As I’ve said previously, angels are servants, and so are the prophets; up to this time God had only spoken though the prophets.
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name. Acts 10:43
1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.… Hebrews 1:1-2
The last days commence at Jesus ascension. It was the apostle John who was given the testimony of Jesus through prophecy.
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, 2who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
The angle now clarifies to John, I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets; John is now identified with prophets, who have received prophecy.
The angel also identifies with other fellow servants who hold to or keep the Spirit of prophecy given to John.
I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
The sayings of this book is paramount! There’s no other book which holds the testimony of Jesus.
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
The only thing the seven churches were bound to do was to keep, holdfast to the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Reasoning, you say that you have investigated the origins of the IJ ......? I realize that my statements can put on on the defensive. But, I ask have you taken the time to understand how the belief was formulated by Hiram Edson, Crosier and Hahn?
Reasoning is able to speak for himself I am sure. Newer the less as most know that most of the SDA Doctrines did not originate from EGW own pen. But was developed over the years. (EGW did support those doctrines in her writings). Just as the IJ was fist promoted by Hiram Edson who had the vision in the cornfield. So the Question arises what is the problem you are having with that?
Elijah said, "most know that most of the SDA Doctrines did not originate from EGW own pen".
If I may, none of the SDA Doctrines originated from EGW. All were derived through study of the Bible.
You are correct when you indicate that the doctrines did not originate with Ellen White, but incorrect when you say that they originated from scriptural study. Some doctrines were, others were gleaned from other faiths (the Sabbath, health and lifestyle, understanding the role of Christ and the Holy Spirit.) Some were added because of inconsistencies with prophecy (the investigative judgement.) While others are standards of most Christian faith. The key is to understand that there is no perfection in doctrine. There is truth and error, we must be diligent in rejecting error and finding the truth.
The problem that I have is that they are presented as originating with Ellen White, who stands out as the author of most Adventist doctrine. Adventist don't read Edson Crosier, or even James White. Instead they are encouraged to read, and - re-read Ellen White which is called the Spirit of Prophecy. White is quoted often, while Edson, White, Smith, Crosier, Smith and others who were the founders of the faith are hardly heard of. If you were do ask the average SDA parishioner how these men influenced the faith and Ellen Whites writings most wouldn't have the clue. In fact most wouldn't even know who these men were. Ellen Whites visions reflected the ideas of these men, confirming their view of Christianity which at times was radically different than the Christianity practiced by the apostles. She did not produce novel doctrine, or information, but was in the business of reflecting the ideas of others. Thus, because she is placed in the position of a prophet who is speaking on Gods behalf she is rarely questioned. In fact it is difficult for any SDA minister or practitioner to recall any mistake by her. A standard that wasn't even held by the Prophets of old.
Leon yes indeed let her have it with both barrels indeed. Yes I do remember that you do not think EGW was inspired by God. Yes so called mistakes you have found, I have seen some of those in posts from you before and it was found that they are not mistakes it is just what you who misunderstand in what she says. Instead of looking at EGW bash sites look at the EGW Estate where they can show you where you are going wrong.
As I stated previously Ellen White is not the source of the SDA doctrine. However, She is the confirmation that the doctrines formed by the forefathers of the church were from God himself. She in fact was placed in the role as God's spoke person through her vision. Fundamental belief 18, listed below places the burden of authority on Ellen White. Her work is call the SOP, which in a violation of scripture which indicates that the SOP was and is the ministry of Christ. Denying that Ellen White is the authority for scriptural truths in equivalent to a Catholic person denying the Vatican. And, yes I agree this is a serous problem for SDA's
Ellen White writings were edited and promoted for the span of her entire ministry. She was the primary source for Spiritual insight and continues to be for many people. She wrote tens of thousands of pages, and even through her works were collaborative coming out of a publishing house with ghost writers and editors, they are credited as hers. This promotes the idea that she was provided with profound insight, because a woman with a third grade education could not have written so eloquently. If you are not familiar with were work and influence on the church here are some of her titles, along with fundamental belief 18.
Steps to Christ
Christ object Lessons
The Great Controversy
Prophets and Kings
32 Testimonials containing messages and visions from God to guide the Church.
Acts of the Apostles
Fundamental belief number 18 ( The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.)
Her work is call the SOP, which in a violation of scripture which indicates that the SOP was and is the ministry of Christ. Denying that Ellen White is the authority for scriptural truths in equivalent to a Catholic person denying the Vatican. And, yes I agree this is a serous problem for SDA's
Violation of scripture you say lets see:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: (KJV)
I think this is the same way EGW got her inspiration.