How should I approah to Jehovah Witness
Hi brethrens:
Just today, I had two friendly Jehovah Witness at my door. They spoke efficiently Vietnamese to me, which I understood it. So just interested, I had a conversation with them. They seem very sincere and love God. They also been to many Sunday churches, but seem to be not familiar w/ Adventists. They also were wearing jewelery and makeup. Anyway, I just let them share their doctrines, there are so many fallacies that I don't know where to begin.
Anyway, they started out using the New Living Translation -- they said it's the most reliable, is there anyone that have evidence, proofs that NLT is not reliable?
They explained that the Holy Spirit is a "moving force" according to Genesis 1:2
They said, that there's only one God Jehovah, and that they were implying the Son was created
As I ask them about Matthew 28:19 - they said that yes Holy Spirit is an it, the power is given by Father
So I ask them about 1 John 5:7 "three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost" and so they said, "you know only the KJV Bible has that." none other bibles has that.
So I explained to them the history of the Latin Vulgate vs Textus Receptus, and that only the KJV is Textus Receptus. They said, the NLT is very accurate b/c it's masoretic Hebrew text, and Greek. And that Martin Luther changed back to Roman Catholic, and they will bring proof next week.
They told me that calling God Yehovah is knowing God closer, so I ask them does it relate to God's Character, and they agree on that. I am planning to show them about that was referring to the Law.
Anyway, I would meet them in one week, appreciate, any feedback, documents on reliability of Textus Receptus, any approach. I am sure any seeker of truth will want truth that include JW. Last time, I approach directly into the Sabbath, and it did not help much :-). As I learned that truth cannot be force, but win only by leading. Anyone with experience, advice about JW is appreciated?
Just today, I had two friendly Jehovah Witness at my door. They spoke efficiently Vietnamese to me, which I understood it. So just interested, I had a conversation with them. They seem very sincere and love God. They also been to many Sunday churches, but seem to be not familiar w/ Adventists. They also were wearing jewelery and makeup. Anyway, I just let them share their doctrines, there are so many fallacies that I don't know where to begin.
Anyway, they started out using the New Living Translation -- they said it's the most reliable, is there anyone that have evidence, proofs that NLT is not reliable?
They explained that the Holy Spirit is a "moving force" according to Genesis 1:2
They said, that there's only one God Jehovah, and that they were implying the Son was created
As I ask them about Matthew 28:19 - they said that yes Holy Spirit is an it, the power is given by Father
So I ask them about 1 John 5:7 "three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost" and so they said, "you know only the KJV Bible has that." none other bibles has that.
So I explained to them the history of the Latin Vulgate vs Textus Receptus, and that only the KJV is Textus Receptus. They said, the NLT is very accurate b/c it's masoretic Hebrew text, and Greek. And that Martin Luther changed back to Roman Catholic, and they will bring proof next week.
They told me that calling God Yehovah is knowing God closer, so I ask them does it relate to God's Character, and they agree on that. I am planning to show them about that was referring to the Law.
Anyway, I would meet them in one week, appreciate, any feedback, documents on reliability of Textus Receptus, any approach. I am sure any seeker of truth will want truth that include JW. Last time, I approach directly into the Sabbath, and it did not help much :-). As I learned that truth cannot be force, but win only by leading. Anyone with experience, advice about JW is appreciated?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by 3 Angels Academy in Manila on -
Thanks for sharing your experience with JWs. We have one Adventist brother here in Manila, Philippines who used to be the best debater of the JWs here in the Philippines before he became an Adventist. He is now one of the Philippine Adventist church's foremost apologist and radio broadcaster.
By the way, he became an Adventist after several years of regularly debating Adventists. His name is Ronald Obidos. You may visit his website at http://sdanswers.webs.com/downloads.htm and email him at ron_obidos@yahoo.com
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Permalink Reply by teresa on -
So I ask them about 1 John 5:7 "three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost" and so they said, "you know only the KJV Bible has that." none other bibles has that.
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/the-controversy-of-i-j...
use their bible with prayer. if nothing else it will earn their respect that you are not being bigoted. :)
i used to have all their books and know a little about them but havent interacted with them for years. i believe they still teach from their little green book, which i dont remember the name of.
perhaps not trying to teach them about the sabbath, the Holy Spirit, Jesus, etc., but go by their little green book. that way you can study the chapter and prepare your rebuttal if there is one. ellen white said Jesus asked questions, so maybe that is the best thing to do. ask questions about their beliefs that will make them think.
just some ideas you can take for what its worth. :)
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Permalink Reply by McCoy on -
How reliable is that to deny the 1 John 5:7?
or How reliable to hold unto that uninspired comma, Luke 23:43?
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Permalink Reply by teresa on
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1 john 5:7 was never in any of the original manuscripts. erasmus was not going to include it because none of the manuscripts he had had that verse. he was urged to include the verse by others and finally said if a manuscript could be found that had it he would.
coincidentally a manuscript was "found". that is just plain history. it boils down to if we want to believe it belongs there or we want to believe it doesnt.
are you saying that luke 23:43 is an addition, that it is not in the original manuscripts?
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Permalink Reply by JohnB on -
Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
or
Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me in paradise."
The original Greek was written without punctuation and so the translators supplied punctuation to make it more readable. Unfortunately, they supplied the punctuation according to their own theology - which was faulty in this respect. This is why we have to be careful how we approach the Bible as God's Word. If we are saying that all was dictated from God then either we or God has got the theology of immediate, conscious life after death, wrong. If we accept that mistakes have crept into the translations then we can appeal to the very clear doctrine expressed elsewhere throughout the Bible to support the fact that the comma, logically, can only fit after the word "today" not before. (Notwithstanding the fact that Jesus Himself did not ascend to heaven that day.)
As far as 1 John 5:7 is concerned, personally, I believe that it is an integral part of the poetry of the surrounding verses as a counterpoint to vs.6.
For myself, I prefer to concentrate on the Sabbath as it is so cut and dried. I particularly appreciate that the JWs are very against the Catholics and they really have a hard time refuting Catholicism's claims that they changed the day and that all who keep Sunday are following them.
I guess I don't have too much time for stiff-necked people so prefer to "cut to the chase" :-)
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Permalink Reply by Tyrone Keels on -
Hi William.
I have had experiences with Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons too. I remember them visiting (Jehovah Witnesses). Christlike kindness towards them is the best way to go. It inevitably comes down to that Bible they use. I used their Bible to show them some inconsistencies in what they believed.
On one occasion two of them came to my house and one of them was a new recruit. I offered a special prayer to God for that particular meeting. The new recruit was beginning to have his eyes opened as I was led to ask a few questions regarding Christ. Some of these may apply to false teachings that find their way among our people too.
1. If Jesus is not God, how can He save me from sin ?
2. Who is going to help me stop sinning ?
3. Does God have a plan to help me stop sinning ?
4. Will God override my will and force me to stop sinning ?
5. How can Jesus be my Savior if He was only a man ?
6. Why can't I save myself from sin ?
7. Is sin something that I need to be concerned about ?
8. Does God have enough power to help me experience a change of character before I die ?
9. Does it matter whether or not I am born again if I don't have a Savior from sin ?
10. Why even give any honor to Christ if He is not God and He can't save me from the power of sin ?
11. What is the purpose of Christ returning to this earth and did he already return ?
12. Do I need to prepare for the return of Christ ?
The Jehovah Witnesses have a theology that does not address the sin problem and offers no solution for effectively neutralizing its power in the lives of human beings. They believe as we do concerning the state of the dead and a few other things because they are an offshoot of Seventh Day Adventists founded by Mr. Charles Taze Russell.
They have set different dates for the 2nd coming of Christ in the past - 1874, 1914, etc. - a spin off of Miller's calculations and our mistake with regard to the months in 1843 and 1844. Date setting is not good because it affords the enemy an opportunity to invalidate anything truthful God may have us share with others.
The two JW's left with the older one closing our meeting abruptly and quickly pulling the new recruit with him. The new recruit had a lot to think about that day and I pray that the Holy Spirit led him out into the truth.
A general rule for dealing with them (JWs) or Mormons or anyone in error -
If a person is in error, be the more kind to him; if you are not courteous, you may drive him away from Christ. {SpTA01a 8.3}
This worked so well with the Mormons, they wanted us to come to their church and have dinner and fellowship. They sent out some of the upper level church leaders. They were wondering how we knew so much about the Bible. I'm glad that Christ was there to speak with these poor misled souls. He did a much better job than I would have.
Pray unceasingly for yourself and these people that you may come in contact with.
Thank you for allowing my reply
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Permalink Reply by McCoy on
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Thank you brother Tyrone
Much appreciative of these suggestions. I will ask them questions about sins. Why do you why Mr. Russel left SDA, like the story behind it. Their theology are most similar to SDA, and I think Mormon too. Thanks.
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Permalink Reply by JohnB on
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William,
Russell was not an SDA. He studied and learned from Millerites / Second Adventists but was never a member of or affiliated to, the SDA church.
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Permalink Reply by Tyrone Keels on
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Hi JohnB
Thanks for mentioning that.
Thank you for allowing my reply
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Permalink Reply by Anthony Manns on -
William,
I use to work at this place where a J.W. would always come. We had a couple of conversations and one day I asked him "on which day do you guys worship?" He said "everyday". I asked a couple of more time after that and finally I got the response, "Sunday". After that, I would just show him kindness and love. We still talk when we see each other.
One other time when I was on the shores of NJ, 2 female JW's approched me and tried to give me some tract. I then went to hand them our tract in exchange, and they refused to accept them. Oh well! Still love them.
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Permalink Reply by McCoy on
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Hi brother Anthony
You're right, we are to show Christ character, meekness, in a loving way. Truth is never force. They refused to take Adventist tract, mean that Adventists are apostate :-)
I wonder, of all their work, and yet deny Jesus as God, and Holy Spirit as a God, do they make it into God's kingdom? or does God wink/pardon (Hebrew word) at their ignorant. Does anyone have an answer?
Thank you.
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