How should we describe the Godhead or Trinity?
Are they one God in three persons?
Are they one God in three person?
Or, is there another way to describe the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
I am interested.
God Bless, Alex.
I read this in this forum;
"What I have said here will be very hard to comprehend by many here but, can we really comprehend the Godhead?? Only one God three distinct person not persons.
Also, I never knew the SDA church promotes three Gods."
Maybe too late to say this now but i will anyway Jesus is the manifestation of God the spoken word there is no way you could ever understand his incarnation to this world it is the mystery of old which was kept hidden in the secret councils of God.
Leslie, this is laughable three distinct person (lol) not persons ? and u are one person why not three person; mother, sister, and grandmother ?
Here is a post by RAY basically showing that God is plural
Permalink Reply by Ray Phillips on
That was a thought I was also contemplating. Along with that point, these additional points also came to mind.
The Bible names three seperate beings that are all called "God." The first reference for this is in Genesis 1:1.
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."Genesis 1:1 (ESV)
The word here for "God" is in the plural, i.e. "In the beginning, Gods created the heavens and the earth."
Actually, there has been some "misquoting" going on, which has confused the question. Here is the Hebrew slogan that is being referred to.
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:" Deut. 6:4 (KJV)
Here is a better translation.
"Hear, O Israel; Jehovah our God is a multiplicity of gods; but one Jehovah/Lord/Ruler."
The Hebrew word for "God" is "'elohiym, Hebrew 430, Strong’s."
Elohiym is the plural for "El." The Hebrew word for God. The word translated as: "Lord," is Jehovah.
The Bible has made it as clear as we need to have it made. It is just up to us to accept it and not fight over something that there is no room for discussion about.
The manufactured problem about multiple gods is just a tactic that Satan has used to confuse. Let's not let that happen here.
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
13 “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by[d] the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you[e] known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”
“Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept? A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; - she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority. Q. Do you observe other necessary truths as taught by the Church, not clearly laid down in Scripture? A. The doctrine of the Trinity, a doctrine the knowledge of which is certainly necessary to salvation, is not explicitly and evidently laid down in Scripture, in the Protestant sense of private interpretation. (A Doctrinal Catechism, p. 174)
“Q. What is Sunday, or the Lord's Day in general? A. It is a day dedicated by the Apostles to the honor of the most holy Trinity” (Douay Catechism, p.143)
The truth is that the trinity is a Pagan doctrine, carried over into Catholicism, then to protestants, and then, after the alpha of apostasy, into the SDA Church. However, many antitrinitarians have their own errors equally dangerous: that Jesus nor the Holy Spirit are divine. What we all need to study is what happened at the incarnation of Christ. An infinite sacrifice was made. Read all about it at http://infinitesacrifice.net. I would like people's feedback on this website from people who actually read through it, especially the section on the incarnation. God is a mystery; how the Spirit works and what He is made of is all a mystery. But the origins of the Godhead and Their relation to each other should be clearly understood as we study the infinite sacrifice in light of the Sanctuary and the cross. Trinitarians and non-trinitarians alike have misrepresented Jesus. Remember, the hope of glory is Christ in us... the mystery of godliness... a mystery to be understood and lived... the greatest mystery there ever was. If we do not tackle this issue, I believe we will be taken into the omega of apostasy.
Yes all is God, the father, son, and holy spirit.
Think of it as "God" being the last name of a family. I.e. my name is Ray Phillips. My wife's name was Ruth Phillips, and any children would also carry the name Phillips. However, we are all very distinct people.
Also, maybe this will also help. Their names describe the role that they play in the plan of salvation.
When you understand their interrelationship, then the reason for the names they have been given will make sense. I strongly suspect that when we get to heaven, we will learn their true names.
To all of us who find ourselves wrestling with the GODHEAD, may I suggest an answer which I got from one of our resource persons during one ministerial seminar which was held one time in our country, the Philippines. Several fellow ministers were arguing regarding several topics, among them the matter of the Trinity. Our resource person, from the General Conference ministerial department, gave this thoughts for us to ponder. He said that these are matters for which several thoughts can be deduced. BUT, the weightier matter is, HOW IS OUR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST? I have taken this position in regards to issues regarding the GODHEAD. We can NEVER FULLY COMPREHEND this sacred matter. How about leaving this matter for us to post DIRECTLY to the Godhead when we are ALL SAFELY GATHERED IN, during Jesus second coming? It will never be fully understood, and this is an area which EGWhite has written about, saying, "SILENCE IS GOLDEN." How about ending this discussion, and MAKE CERTAIN OUR CALLING, and when we are safely gathered in, we can post this question, with all reverance, and awe, to the GODHEAD ourselves.
I agree....personally, it is not an issue for me at all. I am AMAZED, SHOCKED, and frankly EMBARRASSED at some of the "spiritual questions" that some are so fixated on. What does any of this have to do with spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ? NOTHING!
i believe the roles were taken before creation for creation!
Very, very good point! All of these SOP quotes are true as can be; however, keep in mind that prophecy often has double fulfillments. Not only this, but the two fulfillments are linked. It reminds me of the old and new covenants. The new covenant is the everlasting covenant first promised at Eden when God said that there would be enmity against Satan in us. What is the enmity? Christ and His law. The Old, or first, covenant was the first one to be ratified by blood: After the Ten Commandments were given on Sinai, Moses “took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, all that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled [it] on the people, and said, behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words” (Ex. 24: 7, 8). This covenant was obey and live, but the result was disobedience and death, because the people forgot the everlasting covenant. The second covenant ratified by blood is the same old everlasting covenant, ratified at the Cross.
The time prophesies is like the old covenant. It is a head knowledge of prophecy, but not the reality of prophecy. Like the Old Testament services, it contains the nuts and bolts of how prophecy is completed, and in this case, through time. The 2520 represents man's fall and separation from God, resulting in the desolation of God's Temple, both literal and spiritual. It represents a breach made in the Sabbath. The 2300 represents the rebuilding of the Temple, both ends meeting in 1844, just before which when the time charts were published (1842). Connected to the 2300 is the 70 weeks (starting at the same point), ending where the solution is: Jesus, the Repairer of the Breach, the Example for us. However, the time prophecies do not complete the great work that they point to just as the law, whether the ceremonial or moral, does not complete the great work that they point to--the mystery of Godliness: God, through Christ, in us. The everlasting fulfillment of the prophecy written upon tables is the relationship between Christ and the Law, the fulfillment that all the time prophecies point forward to. The 144,000 will have Christ manifested in them perfectly with His law written in their hearts. Like the old testament, the time prophecies have all ended; they were both temporary... however, the reality they try to convey has not been fulfilled, and will not be until that which is in part will be done away with. There are more parallels between the two fulfillments of Habakkuk's prophecy that I share in my book. A much longer tarrying time has taken place than was around the midnight cry, and this time there will be a loud cry. This cry, and the straight testimony that attends it, will be a great disappointment to those who are comfortable in Laodicea. Why? Because of errors! Just like setting the day and hour for Christ's Second Coming along with the 1843 error adding a year zero, our Church is experiencing two errors in the omega of apostasy, settling around the personality of God and the Heavenly Sanctuary.
Another situation in Habakkuk is in the third chapter where people think it is just describing Christ's Second Coming when in reality it focuses on the coming of the latter rain--Christ and His Law coming into us to seal us... again, a double fulfillment, this time, quick in succession. As SDA's we need to come out of our Pharisaical narrow-mindedness. The Sabbath is more than just a day ... atonement involves more than just the Cross ... prophecy is more than just head knowledge. It is time that we start beholding Jesus in relation to His Law. This involves studying the Sanctuary message and seeing the Sabbath more fully ... not the counterfeit of Pharisaically keeping feast-days again ... no ... but keeping Christ in us 24/7 by resting in Him from all of our sins. It is neither time for celebration nor head knowledge, but time to enter into Jeremiah's spirit of lamentation, weeping for our Church and and seeking to rebuild the Spiritual Sanctuary, not tear down with either condemning words or doctrines of spiritualism.