I was reading a book and I’m still reading this great book but I had to stop for a moment. Whenever I read something I always research it for myself to see how true it is. The book talks about “New Methods” that the church is/will be using and worldliness in the church. That’s how far I’ve gotten so far. I did a little research and I stumbled across a video(s) dealing with the PELC and other “stuff”. I’ve never been to these meetings and I’m sure many of you have not as well. So I will post a video. When I watched it I was shocked to see at Oakwood University the Baptist preaching and shouting. If you pay close attention before the camera turns away (which I think was done on purpose) you will even see people jumping up and down and beginning to run around. Some SDA’s stand for drums and that is your opinion, that’s not what this is about. All I’m saying is that, it leads to other things, worldly things, that shouldn’t be practiced in the church. This goes much deeper than drums so please do not harbor on this point.
These “new methods” being brought into the church are things that have been defended on this website not knowing that these are experiments that have become the norm. These things clearly go against our beliefs. These things brought in the church are used for “church growth.” The devil knows exactly what he is doing. While we are saying that these “new methods” (which comes from charismatic leaders) help win souls, these things are actually splitting the church in half. Notice in the video that “new techniques” are being practiced. These are things that they don’t want you to know are the experiments. Pay close attention to what’s being said by everyone. Call me crazy but something isn’t right about this video.
Please watch all of both videos. I think I should share this with you all. It needs to be seen. I was amazed when I saw these videos but I won't ruin it for you all.
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I would like to share to you the sermon of Pastor Ivor Myers which somehow related to this video...if you haven't watch that want...you can download it in the YOUTUBE...
the title of the sermon is ..."Sonic Warfare"...by Pastor Ivor Myers
I have listened to Pastor Ovor Myers and have to say he has some pretty interesting theories on rythems. It would appear that the theories are more a reaction to the devil (voodoo rituals) than a biblical exegesis of the topic of worship/music. The problem is when we react to error, we create error. As a consequence, biblical texts quoted in the teaching are stretched beyond their original intention (eg. Dan 7:25 has nothing to do with musical rythyms – weekly cycles yes, musical rythems no). Also, he stated the the 2/4 rythem is the devils signature or „mark“ of the beast. This is in my opinion a theory motivated by fear with no biblical basis. I heard similar theories on rythem and syncopation in the 1990’s by various folk. I have spoken with Adventists that have degrees in music and a greater understanding on the history and theory of music than myself and they outright reject such theories.
Is dancing before the Lord Biblical?
Pastor Ivor stated that the 2/4 rythems causes the body to move, and that is bad because the body (flesh) is evil. If that were the case, Miriam (a dancing prophetess) would have been rebuked by Moses or struck dead by God.
Ex 15:20 „And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.“
My question is: What rythem was Miriam playing? If it was a 2/4 rythem then it proves the pastor’s first theory wrong, (ie. rock and roll introduced 2/4 rythem). If it was not 2/4 rythem, then, it proves his second theory wrong (ie. 2/4 rythem causes the body to move), as she was dancing whilst playing the timbrel and prophesying in song „Sing to the Lord for He is highly exalted“ (Ex 15:21).
He went on to say that there is no command in the Bible to dance. He claimed that the two references in Psalms are poorly translated, and that the word dance could be translated „pipe“. However, when you check the KJV and Strong’s concordance, the word dance, means precisely that!
Hebrew reference in Strong‘s concordance: 4234. Machowl a (round) dance:- dance (-ing).
Ps 149:3 „Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.“
Ps 150: 4 „Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.“
He also stated that we never see Jesus dancing. That is an argument based on silence. We don’t know much of what Jesus did in His childhood as the Scriptures don’t relate all the events. However, dancing was a part of Jewish culture, especially in wedding ceremonies and special feasts. Regardless of whether He danced or not, we do know He was a man of joy (Lk 10:21).
Were there any antagonistic to joy in Jesus‘ day?
Luke 19:37 “When he came near the place where the road goes down the Mount of Olives, the whole crowd of disciples began joyfully to praise God in loud voices for all the miracles they had seen: 38 "Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!" "Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!" 39 Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, "Teacher, rebuke your disciples!" 40 "I tell you," he replied, "if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out."
John commenting on this same occasion of Christ’s entry into Jerusalem:
John 12:13 „They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, "Hosanna! " "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!" "Blessed is the King of Israel!"“
Palm branches has it roots back in Israel’s history.
Leviticus 23:39 " 'So beginning with the fifteenth day of the seventh month, after you have gathered the crops of the land, celebrate the festival to the LORD for seven days; the first day is a day of rest, and the eighth day also is a day of rest. 40 On the first day you are to take choice fruit from the trees, and palm fronds, leafy branches and poplars, and rejoice before the LORD your God for seven days. 41 Celebrate this as a festival to the LORD for seven days each year.
Disciples joyfully sang and waved palm branches in the air as Jesus rode by on a donkey. The only people angry were the religious folk that wanted it to stop. Today, there are similar folk that want to stop the praise and they have some very sly arguments.
While I am not suggesting we turn worship services in dance parties, it is not wise to forbid something that God commands us to do (Ps 149:3; 150:4). God himself said „I will turn their mourning into joy“. Dance is just one expression of joy. As it says in the same verse „Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance“ (Jer 31:13). If God is so against body movement, then I think he would of worded it differently in this verse. God could of said: „Then shall the virgin rejoice with singing“. But no, He wants them dancing in the streets with joy again. It also states that the young and old will join in: „Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.“ (Jer 31:13) I think the Lord rejoices when we take delight in Him and dance before Him because of His goodness and mercy towards us.
The body is not evil. God created it. The body can certainly do evil when lead by evil intentions of the heart. After the new birth, our body becomes the temple of the Holy Spirit. In Romans 12:1, we are to „offer (y)our bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is (y)our spiritual act of worship.“ This could by bowing low before our King or jumping for joy before Him. Whatever we do, we are to do for His glory (1 Cor 10:31).
During the victorian era, sex was considered by the church as something distasteful and evil because it was associated with the body. The end result was sexual perversion. Sex is not evil of itself. God created it. Sex is good in the right context. The same, I believe, applies to dancing. As Solomon has stated, there is:
Ecc 3:4 „A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance (7540);“
The pastor objects to the fact that David danced, stating that he also had concubines and that God simply allowed them. It is one thing to have concubine and another to dance before the ark of the covenant. If dance was so displeasing to God, He would of struck Him dead as Uzzah was for a much less an act (2 Samuel 6:3-8).
1Ch 15:29 „And it came to pass, [as] the ark of the covenant of the LORD came to the city of David, that Michal the daughter of Saul looking out at a window saw king David dancing (7540) and playing and she despised him in her heart.“
Hebrew reference in Strong‘s concordance: 7540 – raqad = a prim. root; prop. To stamp, i.e. to spring about (wildly or for joy):-dance, jump,leap, skip.
There are many references to dancing in the Bible. Most of them in a positive context and seen in God’s restorative and redemptive purposes. To reject dance is unbiblical.
"Ps 150: 4 „Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.“"
how could dance find itself in this list of instruments, something is amiss there ?
Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
[Praise him with the timbrel] Top, drum, tabret, or tomtom, or tympanum of the ancients; a skin stretched over a broad hoop; perhaps something like the tambarine. Anglo-Saxon; the glad pipe. Taburne; Old Psalter.
[And dance] Maachowl, the pipe. The croude or crowthe: Old Psalter; a species of violin. It never means dance; see the note at Ps 149:3. Crwth signifies a fiddle in Welsh.
[Stringed instruments] Miniym. This literally signifies strings put in order; perhaps a triangular kind of hollow instrument on which the strings were regularly placed, growing shorter and shorter till they came to a point. This would give a variety of sounds, from a deep bass to a high treble. In an ancient manuscript Psalter before me, David is represented in two places, playing on such an instrument. It may be the sambuck, or psaltery, or some such instrument.
[Organs.] ±uwgaab. Very likely the syrinx or mouth organ; Pan's pipe; both of the ancients and moderns. The fistula, septem, disparibus nodis conjuncta, made of seven pieces of cane or thick straw, of unequal lengths, applied to the lips, each blown into, according to the note intended to be expressed. This instrument is often met with in the ancient bucolic or pastoral writers. (from Adam Clarke's Commentary)
Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
[Let them praise his name in the dance] Bmaachowl, with the pipe, or some kind of wind music, classed here with top, the tabor or drum, and kinowr, the harp. "maachowl," says Parkhurst, "some fistular wind-instrument of music, with holes, as a flute, pipe, or fife, from chuwl, to make a hole or opening." I know no place in the Bible where maachowl and machalat mean dance of any kind; they constantly signify some kind of pipe. (from Adam Clarke's Commentary)
Matt and Jason both echo the sentiments that I have regarding dance. It is unwise for a person--especially a pastor--to forbid or counsel Christians not do, when Holy Scriptures state otherwise.
"Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals. Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD."--Psalm 150:4-6
"13And it was so, that when they that bare the ark of the LORD had gone six paces, he sacrificed oxen and fatlings. And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.
And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD. And as soon as David had made an end of offering burnt offerings and peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the LORD of hosts. And he dealt among all the people, even among the whole multitude of Israel, as well to the women as men, to every one a cake of bread, and a good piece of flesh, and a flagon of wine. So all the people departed every one to his house.
Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!
And David said unto Michal, It was before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play before the LORD. And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honour. Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.--2 Samuel 6:13-24
An ever present danger. As it was in the early days, so it may be again...
The letter to Thyatira in Revelation 2 contains an element of [relevant] concern.
"Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols." (Rev 2:20)
Historically this applied to the Waldenses and to the other faithful Christians during the 1260 days of Papal supremacy. It seems amazing, but the Waldenses were, at times, allowing Catholic monks to teach their people, and even to partake of the Catholic mass!
And it seems to have been an alarmingly common occurrence --
"To secure converts, the exalted standard of the Christian faith was lowered, and as the result "a pagan flood, flowing into the church, carried with it its customs, practices, and idols."" (Great Controversy p384)
The warning to Thyatira is actually a warning to the Adventists, them being the Kingdom of Heaven as only this group match the description found in Matthew 25:1-13. Therefore, the application is one that should be of real interest to those Adventists who are truely seeking the truth. This 'Jezebel' was sick all of her life too. What makes this message to the Adventists in the last generation is that this Jezebel taught things that leads the bondservants (the very elect) astray. Notice that those who tolerate her teachings will be in the great tribulation? Well come on folks, that only happens in the last 3 and a half years of this earth's history! To top this off, this message to those in the last generation also says what God will do for those who do NOT hold to her teaching, for they will overcome and keep God's deeds right to the end.
Therefore, this message can only be for those who are in the Adventist Church who put to test EGW and find her teachings to be false. They are the ones who overcome and God gives them authority over all he has.
Sure, most will thumb their nose at this idea and suggest that the ones who believe this are following after Satan. Interestingly, that is exactly what happened to Jesus.
These videos were horrible, I can´t say anything else...I think if Jesus was with them, he would say them something similar like in Revelation letters for Sardis and Laodicea. This is not an improvement, just making the same mistake, that other churches already made.
I live in Serbia, in our churches I´ve never seen anything similar to this, so I was shocked when I saw this video.
Do you know pastor Bill Hughes?