Adventist Online

I was reading a book and I’m still reading this great book but I had to stop for a moment. Whenever I read something I always research it for myself to see how true it is. The book talks about “New Methods” that the church is/will be using and worldliness in the church. That’s how far I’ve gotten so far. I did a little research and I stumbled across a video(s) dealing with the PELC and other “stuff”. I’ve never been to these meetings and I’m sure many of you have not as well. So I will post a video. When I watched it I was shocked to see at Oakwood University the Baptist preaching and shouting. If you pay close attention before the camera turns away (which I think was done on purpose) you will even see people jumping up and down and beginning to run around. Some SDA’s stand for drums and that is your opinion, that’s not what this is about. All I’m saying is that, it leads to other things, worldly things, that shouldn’t be practiced in the church. This goes much deeper than drums so please do not harbor on this point.


These “new methods” being brought into the church are things that have been defended on this website not knowing that these are experiments that have become the norm. These things clearly go against our beliefs. These things brought in the church are used for “church growth.” The devil knows exactly what he is doing. While we are saying that these “new methods” (which comes from charismatic leaders) help win souls, these things are actually splitting the church in half. Notice in the video that “new techniques” are being practiced. These are things that they don’t want you to know are the experiments. Pay close attention to what’s being said by everyone. Call me crazy but something isn’t right about this video.


Please watch all of both videos. I think I should share this with you all. It needs to be seen. I was amazed when I saw these videos but I won't ruin it for you all.

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Matt this is the second or third time I have seen you post this. As i have said many times before I believe we are not reading between the lines. With all that you have said I am still unsure of your stance...


Shouting is not objectionable. Playing "loudly" is not objectionable. The instruments are not objectionable in themselves. It is the manner in which each is used and done. We must avoid both extremes in our worship. We must avoid being over taken by emotion and letting the music "move us" and we must also avoid stiff and rigid worship with no expression of love. 


The arguments that take place over the manner in which instruments are played are no different than the arguments brought against the Adventist church (and Sabbatarians in general) that we don't know how to properly keep Sabbath. Many suppose that the Bible does not give clear guide lines on Sabbath observance. That is the argument from without the church. The argument from within the church is that we cannot know in what way to do anything...wear our healthfully...etc. Does no one see that there is a problem? Our church is being consumed in ambiguity.

We cannot take things at face value and run with them. We pride ourselves on being a church that can understand prophecy but can't seem to understand anything else that's set in front of us. Yes we know that waters represent people and multitudes in prophecy. We can correct someone and tell them that prophetically waters and beasts and not to be taken as what they are, yet we argue about "shouting" and "drums" and guitars and organs as though those things are evil. The problem is that those same things are used in a distasteful and inappropriate way by the fallen churches and when many within our own ranks see them they generally have one of three reactions...perhaps more but these are the three which I have observed.


(1.) They say that those things (being used in the same manner) are needed in our church for "livening up" the service and church growth.

(2.) They stay away from those things all together because they know what they can lead to....but have enough common sense to realize that a drum is not evil and that shouting can be done out gratitude and a heart which has been touched by the power and love of God.

(3.) They stay away from those things and become cold and formal in their own worship because now (eventually because of their stance) in their minds expression is associated with evil.


My question is this: 

You say that those quotes always surface at camp meetings when a drumset appears. Ok. What type of music is played? Let's assume that the music played is "regular contemporary Christian." That's not a "bedlam of noise" right? Ok. You say that the bedlam was people playing however they wanted to play. I would agree that that is confusion but if our prophet has said that these things will become the norm in our church...where will they come from? Will they just pop up over night or will they be slowly introduced until no one cares any more?


"Those participating in the supposed revival receive impressions which lead them adrift. They cannot tell what they formerly knew regarding Bible principles. No encouragement should be given to this kind of worship. But last January the Lord showed me that erroneous theories and methods would be brought into our camp meetings, and that the history of the past would be repeated.Satan will make music a snare by the way in which it is conducted."

"Those participating in the supposed revival receive impressions which lead them adrift. They cannot tell what they formerly knew regarding Bible principles. No encouragement should be given to this kind of worship." 

David's Dancing Not a Precedent.--David's dancing in reverent joy before God has been cited by pleasure lovers in justification of the fashionable modern dance, but there is no ground for such an argument. In our day dancing is associated with folly and midnight reveling. Health and morals are sacrificed to pleasure. By the frequenters of the ballroom God is not an object of thought and reverence; prayer or the song of praise would be felt to be out of place in their assemblies. This test should be decisive. Amusements that have a tendency to weaken the love for sacred things and lessen our joy in the service of God are not to be sought by Christians. The music and dancing in joyful praise to God at the removal of the ark had not the faintest resemblance to the dissipation of modern dancing. The one tended to the remembrance of God and exalted His holy name. The other is a device of Satan to cause men to forget God and to dishonor Him. {AH 517.1}

Oh my, this was not the direction that this thread was meant to go in. It was meant to allow people to see the things that are taking place in our churches that also takes place in fallen churches. It was to be more of a sounding alarm. Some people took it that way and were appreciative. For all the material that was given me, I thank you all. It was very informative.


As for those who want to "take up" for worship styles that are done not only in fallen churches but in religions that are a mixture of Catholicism and African religions, go ahead. But know and remember that a great crisis is coming upon us and those that are not ready in every aspect will be deceived. The bible says “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:12. These styles of worship go much deeper than what we see. They are used as just another method by Satan to deter you away from truth. I will not sit and allow my brothers and sisters to worship in error and not give them the opportunity to see that they are in error. I will not overlook these things because SDA’s or non SDA’s are doing it. No matter the individual, it is wrong and will never be right no matter how much we like it.


If I broke a forum rule then please forgive me but if breaking a rule is calling sin for what it is then God please help us all. “….We ought to obey God rather than men.” Act 5:29. We should respect ourselves, respect our church institutions and reverence them; most importantly, fear God and give glory to Him and not self. When we openly oppose God for the pleasure of self then we exalt self and go against God. We are so close to a great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time.” Matthew 24:21. I pray that we can open our eyes to what is truly taking place and has been taking place within our church. If we do, then we can move forward. Right now we are falling into the trap of the devil himself and we can’t discern truth from error.

Hi Kendria,
Thank you for this discussion and for your thoughts and opinions on it.  Without commenting on this issue directly, we want to express with great clarity that "calling sin for what it is" is NOT against our rules in any way.  You can always call sin by it's right name here.  Others may disagree and that is their right as well.  As long as we treat each other with Christ-like love in our interactions with those that believe differently than we do, no site rules will ever be broken.

Our Site Rules and Guidelines were written and updated by this community.  They align with scripture completely and never set up a decision of whether to obey God rather than man.  If anyone varies from the behavior encouraged by our rules, it is not because they are following God - God never leads us to treat others poorly.

We want to thank you again for your continued contributions here.  We are blessed to have you as a part of this family.  :-)

Blessings and prayers.


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