@ Ray so according to your calculation only 1 of us who is posting in this forum will make it to heaven. I am also pretty sure that more than 1 in 20 sda read and obey the writings of EGW. So by her own calculation even those who read and practice her instructions will be lost.
Kinda scary don't you think?
First of all, it is not according to my calculation. This is what Ellen White wrote.
Second, just reading without internalizing truth, is of no value, no matter who wrote it down.
Many who read what Ellen White wrote refuse to obey and this makes what she wrote of no value for them. They will be as lost as if they never read either her writtings or the Bible.
So according to your calculation, a person who does not live on EGW's writings is lost.
I am am so THANKFUL for the BIBLE!
Just jumping in for quick second.....
Is it EGW's writings or is it God and EGW was just the vessel?
There was a group of people who were so thankful for the Torah and couldnt see past the first 5 books of the Bible. As a result, they could not recognize their Messiah.
The other way to look at it is ....Yes.... There WILL be Israelites that were lost because they ignored the prophet God sent them. Guess we'll see this when the books in Heaven are opened.
Its not like God gives us a prophet and says ignore the Bible. Or He gives the Bible, sends a prophet, and tell you to ignore him/her. Its about recognizing what God has given us, and accepting it from Him. All of it working to our good.
My sentiments exactly. You wrote what I was just getting ready to write. Well done.
Ray I did say "read and obey EGW" not just read, unless of course the 1 in 20 sDa that will be saved are only those who read and obey EGW writings. Now that is even more scary. Kinda like salvation through the writings of EGW, I prefer the old time salvation.
That is salvation by faith through GRACE, just saying
Hmm... 1 in 20? That's a much better ratio than the Children of Israel acheived.
c.2.5 million (including women and children) left Egypt - only 2 of them made it to the Promised Land.
As far as salvation through the writings of EGW is concerned... you have to decide whether she was God's messenger or not. If she *is* God's messenger then her inspired writings are just that - inspired... by God. They are her words but God's inspiration - just like the Bible in that respect. What all have to determine in their own minds is whether she was inspired by God or not. If not - then her writings can be ignored or one can pick and choose, just as one would with any secular writer.
However, if she truly was God's messenger then surely she carried messages from God to His people. If that is the case then we ignore her messages at our peril as they are not *her* messages but God's. That being the case then salvation is still on the same basis - grace. We can ignore her writings, we can ignore Moses' writings, or Paul's... but why would you want to? I believe that God had a very good reason for raising up a prophet at the end of time, the fact that it was EGW who accepted the call is incidental.
In the Bible a messenger of God is called an "angel." So, since she is a messenger of God, would it be proper to refer to Ellen White as an "angel of God?" Just wondering.
John B nice try you almost got me with your children of israel trickery comparison. Only 2 mader it to the promised land VERY TRUE but will it be ONLY Joshua and Caleb that makes it into the heavenly Canaan? absolutely NOT. We know atleast one other person who did not make it to Canaan but who will be in the heavenly Canaan, they called him MOSES.
That's why we need to study to show ourself approved otherwise we will be tossed aside with every wind of statistic and scaremongering. Why do we lay these burdens upon the people that neither we or our forefathers were able to bear. Salvation is faith through Christ alone and the bible is the complete manuscript and incliudes everything I need for my journey. ellen can assist me in my understanding of the Bible, but no way is it imperative that I read her to secure my salvation.
I lovingly agree to disagree with those who preach otherwise. I say read EGW accept EGW but do not impose it on others as if it's imperative to me soul salvation.
Over and Out
"Whoot, there it is!"
I really don't know what you mean by "children of israel trickery". What's the trick?
Just because only 2 of the c.2.5 million made it into the earthly Canaan doesn't mean that they are the only 2 to make it to the heavenly Canaan? I was merely comparing ratios. In fact, do we have any knowledge as to whether Joshua and Caleb will be in the heavenly Canaan? Any way it is a preposterous thought, akin to saying that there will only be 144,000 in heaven.
One of the biggest problems I see in SDAism is where people try and misrepresent what EGW wrote or talk about passages that they have not read in context - or sometimes read at all!
EGW wrote: "It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner." (Christian Service p.41)
Personally, I take that statement as it stands. I look at myself and I agree that it is a solemn statement that she is making.
Is she saying that less than 5% will go to heaven? No.
The phrase "not one in twenty" is synonymous with saying, "not very many" as in, "There is not one in twenty who knows how to keep accounts correctly." (Manuscript Releases Vol.2 p.220)
Or, "Not one in twenty has a realization of what rapid strides we are making toward the great crisis in our history. . . ." (Maranatha p.253)
Or, "There is not one in twenty who knows the beauty, the real essence, of Christ's ministry." (Mind, Character & Personality p.185)
Or, "not one in twenty of the sisters who profess to believe the Testimonies has taken the first step in the dress reform." (Testimonies Vol.1 p.465)
Anna Sewell uses the phrase in her book Black Beauty (pub.1877) at the opening of chapter 17, "it is one of the hardest things in the world to get horses out of a stable when there is either fire or flood. I don't know why they won't come out, but they won't -- not one in twenty."
This was a common turn of phrase and still in use when George Orwell, writing about Charles Dickens in the 1940s, said, "A music-hall comedian can (or at any rate could quite recently) go on the stage and impersonate Micawber or Mrs. Gamp with a fair certainty of being understood, although not one in twenty of the audience had ever read a book of Dickens's right through."
If you take a common phrase out of its 19th century context then you run the risk of just not understanding what is being said. This can be the case with reading any 19th century author. IMO her books should be read as what they are... books. But at least read with understanding.
I agree with your penultimate sentence.
However, I will also add this. It took me a few years to accept Ellen White's role - and it only happened after I had read some of her books. Having accepted that she was God's messenger for His people at the end of time I was then able to be baptised and join the SDA church. To be an SDA meant that you accepted EGW as being an inspired author, so, having accepted that why would I not follow prima scriptura? I have never heard of degrees of inspiration.
I mean exactly what I stated, as it is my quote. When we start focusing what the person actually says and how they live according to the Bible and not just "whether they are SDA", we will know whether it is real or fake...most importantly, know the Holy Spirit's voice and when He is speaking through others.