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Ok so my conference is planning a big Youth event known as Impact Providence for September 23-25.  They have confirmed Jaci Velasquez as an invited singer.  Jaci Velazquez has been in Hollywood movies so it struck me as unusual.   I checked her out on wikipedia and it seems she preffers to be called Non-denominational but is actually affiliated with the "Assemblies of God".

 

I bring this up since Ted Wilson no longer wants non-adventist speakers on adventist events.  And while technically Jaci is a singer and not a speaker, IDK it bugged me.  Are non-sda singers ok on our altars & events? Or does anyone know if Jaci recently converted to the sda church?

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Last time I heard, she is not. She is the sister of a well known singer also here in the Philippines. We have many good singers in the church. Why invite a non-SDA?

 

Do not hire worldly musicians if this can possibly be avoided. Gather together singers who will sing with the spirit and with the understanding also. The extra display which you sometimes make entails unnecessary expense, which the brethren should not be asked to meet; and you will find that after a time unbelievers will not be willing to give money to meet these expenses. . . .  {Ev 127.3}

 

The Music Personnel

     Those Whose Hearts Are in the Effort.--In their efforts to reach the people, the Lord's messengers are not to follow the ways of the world. In the meetings that are held, they are not to depend on worldly singers and theatrical display to awaken an interest. How can those who have no interest in the Word of God,
                                                                           509
who have never read His Word with a sincere desire to understand its truths, be expected to sing with the spirit and the understanding? How can their hearts be in harmony with the words of sacred song? How can the heavenly choir join in music that is only a form?--Testimonies, vol. 9, p. 143. (1909)  {Ev 508.4} 
     Only Sweet, Simple Singing.--How can God be glorified when you depend for your singing on a worldly choir that sings for money? My brother, when you see these things in a right light, you will have in your meetings only sweet, simple singing, and you will ask the whole congregation to join in the song. What if among those present there are some whose voices are not so musical as the voices of others. When the singing is such that angels can unite with the singers, an impression is made on minds that singing from unsanctified lips cannot make.--Letter 190, 1902.  {Ev 509.1} 
     Worldly Musicians.--Do not hire worldly musicians if this can possibly be avoided. Gather together singers who will sing with the spirit and with the understanding also. The extra display which you sometimes make entails unnecessary expense, which the brethren should not be asked to meet; and you will find that after a time unbelievers will not be willing to give money to meet these expenses.--Letter 51, 1902.

 

 

Ladyeve, Jaqui Velasquez is a practicing Christian and not a "worldling".  I listen to her almost every morning here on the Chrisitan Radio Station in Nashville when I wake up, where she is a Radio Personality or DJ .  There is a very big difference between being a "Christian" and being a "Worldling".  

 

I would prayerfully ask you to be careful about how you characterize those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.  

Thus the "quotes" you have posted are of non effect and does not apply.

Sarah

 

Your comments are right or wrong, depending on how you define a Christian and a Worldling.  If you take the current definition of a Christian as one who professes to serve Jesus, no matter how they act or what they believe, than just about any protestant could be called a "Christian."  However, then you have a problem in differentiating between a Christian and a wordling.  A Wordling can profess to believe in Jesus, just as long as it does not hamper what they want to do. 

 

However, if you define a Christian who is one who is seeking to follow Jesus all of the way, with the knowledge that is available today, than the number for whom that claim is justified, shrinks dramatically. 

 

With all of the knowlege that is available today, for a Sunday keeper to claim to be a Christian is not a valid claim.  The counsel is to not set up people as examples, who claim to be a Christian but are denying the power of a Christian life, as an example by inviting them to speak to our youth, is not following the divine directions in this matter.

 

You say that you listen to this lady every morning.  Remember this old saying?

"Crime is a monster if such frightful mean, to be hated is just to be seen.  However, seen to oft, familiar with her face, we first endure, pity, than embrace." 

What we choose to focus on is what we will become like.  It is no wonder that you are not able to differentiate between a true Christian and a wordling, when the first thing you focus on is this example. 


The name Christian was given to the early church becasue they were all of the time focused on Christ.  They did not focus on some popular musical figure each morning, but they focused on Christ.  What we love to look at is what we will become.  That is a law of the mind that we cannot change.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

Actually, I keep my alarm clock on the Christian Radio station to wake me up, the cut it off after I get up! LOLOL!

 

However, it is not about how "you" define Worlding, but about how GOD defines it.  He is clear in scripture that those who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior belong to Him.  No more would I not call you or Ladyeve a Christian because we may differ, we cannot call someone else who has not given any known reason to a "Worldling" because they do not believe as you do.

Grey, 

 

To clarify Ted Wilson's position:  He has asked that leaders "avoid the practice" of not having non-SDA speakers.  He can suggest and recommend, but cannot mandate.  

 

With that said, there is a big difference, in that any Christian can sing the same song, under the anointing of the Holy Spirit and there not be any "potential questioning" as to them "teaching" something different than the Fundamental Beliefs (with few exceptions).

Not sure why it bugged you, though.  If we can sing in a church that is not Seventh-day Adventist and it be received by the Christian worshipers then why (in your thinking) can't someone who is a Christian from another faith sing in a Seventh-day Adventist Church?  That would state that Seventh-day Adventists think they are "superior" to other Christians and imply a "country club" mindset on who is qualified to worship or minister.  Neither is supported by scripture.

 

Oh well I haven't really been following the whole thing.  As controversial as this might sound, I was never offended by the whole oakdale thing.  But since Ted Wilson took a stand, I guess I figured it was an official rule.  Now that you mention that he can't mandate it makes more sense. At first I thought that my conference was going against the GC.  I know see that is not the case.

 

To be fair, Im not familiar with Jaci Velasquez music, I just remember her from the Movie 'Chasing Papi.'  And I never said I had anything against non sda singers, I just assumed that our church had taken a stand against them on our pulpits.

Glad this has helped! =)

Sarah

 

You did not clarify, you set aside what Elder Wilson said.  True, Elder Wilson cannot mandadte,  Nor can the Holy Spirit mandate.  Nor can God mandate.  The only one who can "mandate" is Satan.  He is the one who rules by command.  God rules by love, the strongest force in the Universe.  Never forget:

    "for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." Matthew 12:37 (ESV)   

God says: "If you love me, keep my commandments/instructions."  We show our love for God by those things that we love here on earth.  When we love and defend those who show by their actions that they do not love God enough to keep His commandments, and attempt to set aside the counsel of those whe seek to follow God's plan, we show just which side we are on.  And it is not on God's side, no matter how strident our claim might be to the contrary.

 

When I was in the active ministry, I met a Methodist minister who I became a lifelong friend of mine.  His theology was more close to Adventist theology than many Adventist ministers theology is today.  He owned and had read more of Ellen White's writings than many who are on the conference payroll.  He often invited me to preach in his church, but I never returned the "favor."  He knew why and made no objection to it.  In fact, he even kept the Sabbath, and to my knowledge still does.  If any non-Adventist would have been more accepted to preach in an Adventist group, he would have been.  However, I choose to follow the counsel we have been given and not set myself up as an authority on the subject.  The only reason he was not an Adventist was the various situations he had witnessed of how the conference treated those who were in the ministry.  A most sad commentary indeed, but true.

 

You spoke of just differentiating between an Adventist and non-Adventist by just singing.  If you are not able to make this differentiation, than maybe the problem is in the monitor.  This is not a case of superiority, but of fidelity.  Yes, I am suprerior in God's sight becasue I have chosen to follow Him all of the way and I am proud of it.  If they want to be on the right side, they too can choose to obey God's instructions and then they too will be superior.  We should never appologize for the fact that God is making us into as superior being, for it is a done by superior workmanship.  In fact, there is no better creation anywhere than the workmanship of the Master Creator in our lives.

 

Just like following all of God's instructions makes one superior.  We must never forget that.  In today's society, this has been looked down on so much that pseudo Christians have fallen into that trap.

 

See, Equality, is at the heart of the satanic rebellion in heaven.  He wanted to be equal with Jesus as well as the Father.  Only total submission to God can make anyone equal with God.  See Revelation 3:21.  That is most certainly a superior position.  A position that those who set aside their opinions will someday occupy.  WHY?  Becasue they had the superior intelligence to choose the right master to submit to.  Becasue they choose to believe God and not Satan's golden promise of equality, which only means that we are equal with Satan, blind them to the end results.  Yes, it takes a superior person to make the superior choice to serve the right master.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

 

Amen!!! Very true brother Ray!

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."--Galatians 3:27-29

 

Great story Ray, but the point you are trying to make does not apply here.  Humans are all equal in the sight of God and on earth.  A created being, (in this case Lucifer/Satan) can never be equal with the Creator.  Big difference.

 

 

Sarah

 

The text is the right text, however, from your comment, you do not understand it.  The key is in the word: "baptized."  This is a spiritual death and burial of the old man of sin and being ressurected into a new life in Jesus.  As such, a person has a new family, a new character, a new inheretance and a new geneology.  We have become a child of God.  The way we show this has happened is when we obey His commandments, all of them.

 

However, if our actions do not reflect this change, i.e. still blaming our earthly father, not submitting to God's instructions, etc., it shows that we in fact have not been buried in Jesus.  We only got wet outside in front of the church, we did not become washed inside. 

 

Nor does this passge state that all humans are equal.  Not even all who are baptized, much less those who are not baptized by immersion.  Only when we become "one in Christ" i.e. become one with Jesus, does anyone come to a status where we are equal before God.  Ths is brought out in Rev. 3:21, 22. 

 

Feminist have misused the passage you quoted so much that it has almost become meaningless.  A case of telling a lie often enough, that pretty soon, it is believed as truth. 

 

The topic in this passage is regarding the relationship between faith and law, see Gal. 3:23.  Yes, we all can have equal faith and when we demonstrate by our choices that we have faith/trust in God, then we all have an equal opportunity to be part of God's family.  But, at no time does God say that on this earth we will all be equal as the feminist and those who want to ordain women and men who do not qualify as ministers, want us to believe it says.  Christian churches still have seperate bathroom facilities for men and women.  They is still very much of a difference between male and female.  Thank God for that difference.  Not that one gender is superior, but that the two opposites can become one whole.  Something that would be impossible if there were no differences.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

 

 

 

 

Both the scripture and context of it's are 100% accurate.  

 

Ray, you are being presumptuous are placing yourself in the role of "god junior", which you have no spiritual authority to determine whether or not a persons baptism in the name of Jesus
Christ is or is not anything.  I am amazed and sadly disappointed at what is coming off as not only presumption, but arrogance.  

 

 

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