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Compare the difference between the KJV and the NIV or NASB at Titus 2: 13 and 2 Peter 1: 1.

What do you see as the main difference? (The NKJV is the same as the NIV and NASB in these verses.)

1) At Titus 2: 13, the KJV says, "the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ."

How many people are spoken of here? Who is Jesus Christ according to this translation?

The NIV and most other modern translations read, "our great God and Savior Jesus Christ."

Who is Jesus Christ according to this translation?

2) At 2 Peter 1: 1, the KJV reads, "the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ."

How many people are spoken of here?

Now compare the same verse as translated by most modern translations, as in NIV--

"the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ."

In these instances, the NIV and modern translations translate these verses correctly, showing clearly that Jesus Christ is our God.

The KJV translators did not translate those verses correctly because they didn't understand some rules of Greek grammar that we've learned since 1611.

These are among the two clearest statements in the entire Bible that Jesus Christ is God.

If you compare 2 Peter 1: 1 with 1: 11, you will see the same kind of construction. It calls Jesus "our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." He is both Lord and Savior, the same reason grammatically that verse 1 declares Jesus to be both God and Savior. If verse 11 is translated correctly, then verse 1 is also, because both are identical constructions and hence take the same rules.

The New World Translation by the Jehovah Witnesses (who are Arians) shows that they also recognize that this verse teaches the deity of Christ. In order to avoid teaching this, they have added a definite article which does not belong in the phrase, "the righteousness of our God and [the] Savior Jesus Christ." Thus they make it refer to two persons, the Father and Jesus, whereas the literal Greek [without the definite article] refers to only one person, Jesus, as both God and Savior.

Therefore, simply by studying these two verses closely as translated in most modern translations, the answer is clearly yes, Jesus Christ is God.

What are your thoughts? All responses welcome.

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Yes, indeed! And that is great news, because we have an elder brother who is God. This God-man has pledged His throne that He will fulfill His exceedingly great and precious promises when we come to Him in order to obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. He will keep us from stumbling. He will do it! Hebrews 4: 16; 2 Peter 1: 4; Jude 24.
Yes...I agree with you..He's God..

At Titus 2: 13, the KJV says, "the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ."

Paul describes the saints as “looking for the blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our
great God and Savior Jesus Christ” (NKJV). The KJV translates this passage as “the glorious appearing
of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ,” which has the saints waiting for the Father
and the Son. While this translation is possible, the NKJV rendering is to be preferred for the following
(1) The two nouns “God” and “Savior” are connected by one article, indicating that, as a rule, the two nouns are two designations of one object.
(2) The entire New Testament looks forward to the second coming of Christ.
(3) The context in verse 14 speaks of Christ alone.
(4) This interpretation is in harmony with other passages such as John 20:28; Rom 9:5; Heb 1:8; 2 Peter 1:1.

This text, therefore, is an explicit assertion of the deity of Christ.
He is God... Knowing Him is like standing in front of the heaven's gate... Believing Him is like seeing the heaven from outside... Following Him is like being inside the heaven... Yes, He is God...
"... Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God." Rom.9:5. (New KJ)

That's a great verse, sky.

The NIV gives it even more clearly: "... Christ, who is God over all, forever praised. Amen."
The real hope can only be found in Him...
Yes, because He is fully God. We can no longer assume that this is understood. I am finding many people on various SDA forums who strongly oppose the Bible teaching that Christ is God. They want to go back to the error that was generally taught in our church during most of the 1800s. James White, Joseph Bates, E. J. Waggoner and many others were wrong on this.
Yes, because He is fully God...

Jesus’ Self-consciousness
Jesus never directly asserted his divinity, nevertheless
his teaching was permeated with Trinitarian concepts.
In accordance with the Hebrew idea of son-ship,
i. e., whatever the father is, that is the son also, Jesus
claimed to be the Son of God (Matt 9:27; 24:36; Luke
10:22; John 9:35-37; 11:4). The Jews understood that
by claiming to be the Son of God he was claiming equality
with God, “Therefore the Jews sought all the more
to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but
also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal
with God” (John 5:18, cf. 10:33).
Jesus repeatedly claimed to possess what properly
only belongs to God. “He spoke of the angels of
God (Luke 12:8-9; 15:10) as his angels (Matt 13:41).
He regarded the kingdom of God (Matt 12:28; 19:14,
24; 21:31, 34) and the elect of God (Mark 13:20) as his
own.”28 In Luke 5:20 Jesus forgave the sins of the paralytic,
and the Jews on the basis of Isaiah 43:25 correctly
argued “Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
Thus implicit in Jesus’ action of forgiveness was the
claim to be God.
Christ’s divinity is also indicated by his use of the
present tense in his reply to the Jews, “Before Abraham
was [born] (genesthai) I am (ego eimi)” (John 8:58). By
using the terms genesthai (was born or became) and
ego eimi (I am) Jesus contrasts his eternal existence
with the historical beginning of the existence of
Abraham. It is eternity of being and not simply pre-existence
before Abraham which is expressed here. The
Jews at least understood it this way, they realized that
Jesus claimed to be Yahweh, the I AM from the burning
bush (Exod 3:14), therefore they took up stones to kill
him (8:59).
Finally, the fact that Jesus accepted the worship of
others is evidence that he himself recognized his divinity.
After Jesus came to the disciples walking on water,
“they worshiped him” (Matt 14:33). The blind man whose
sight was restored, after he washed in the pool of
Siloam, “worshiped Him” (John 9:38). After the resurrection
the disciples went to Galilee where Jesus appeared
to them, and “they worshiped Him” (Matt 28:17).
Time and again Jesus accepted worship as perfectly
proper. He thereby laid direct claim to divinity.
Micah 5:2 calls says that his going forth has been from everlasting, from of old; Isaiah 6:9 says that he is the 'Everlasting Father; John 1:1 confirms that the word was God (see vs 14), in ch 20 He receives worship of Thomas; Matt 1:23 refers to Him as Emmanuel - 'God with us'. and there are so many other passages that confirm His deity.
Two others that are very good are Col. 1: 17, which in the original says Christ existed before all things and that in Christ all things in the universe cohere.

And Col. 2: 9, which says plainly that in Christ dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. The Greek word means that Christ is fully God, not merely divine but truly God.

Hebrews 1: 10 quotes Ps. 102: 25 which is referring to Jehovah and applies it to Jesus Christ, and says that it was Jesus Christ who laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are the works of Christ's hands. (When I've shown this verse to some Jehovah's Witnesses, they have actually denied it refers to Christ, until they read in their own books that it does indeed refer to Christ.)

Another very important verse but one which is usually overlooked, is 1 Cor. 10: 9. The best textual evidence is that this verse teaches that it was Christ whom the ancient Hebrews provoked, or tested, in the wilderness and were killed by serpents.

The New World Translation has "Jehovah" in this verse, but all three printed Greek texts-- the Textus Receptus (KJV), the Majority Text (NKJV), and the Critical Text (NRSV; TINV; NAB)-- all read "Christ," not "Lord." This is one verse where the discovery of very ancient manuscripts has proved the KJV right.

If the Jehovah Witneses were consistent, they would now have to believe that Jesus really is the Jehovah of the Old Testament. This evidence is in the footnotes of their reference Bible, but few JWs are aware of it.

Of course the Father was Jesus' God while he was living here as a man totally dependent on the Father. He depended on God the same as we must.

But do you believe that the pre-existent Christ was called Jehovah, or Yahweh, in the Old Testament? Do you believe it was Christ who appeared to Moses and said that His name was Yahweh, "I AM THAT I AM"?

Yahweh means "self-existent, eternal." Ellen White says that Jesus Christ was "self-existent." What does that mean to you, that He was self-existent, eternal, and His life underived?

You said, "Waggoner came with message in 1888 that Christ proceeded from God and had a beginning. E.White indorsed the message."

She did endorse the message of righteousness by faith but that doesn't mean she endorsed everything he believed or everything he wrote. Have you read the 1888 Materials?

A.T. Jones and E.J. Waggoner definitely had a message from heaven, but if you study our history at that time and what Ellen White was writing, and would go on to write in DA and PP and Ev. 615-617, it becomes obvious that the "pioneers" were wrong as regards the Godhead. For one thing they didn't all agree among themselves. Bates and James White and Uriah Smith all believed very early on that Christ was created, but James White changed his view as he read his wife's visions, and Uriah Smith also changed his view of Christ by about 1882. James White of course died in 1881, but He was following Ellen White's lead, even though he was a bit behind her. He had begun to believe that Christ was not created but had been generated or produced by the Father. But he still believed the Holy Spirit was not a person but a power or influence of the FAther. Ellen White would go on to see from what God showed her that the Holy Spirit is a person and the "third person of the Godhead," "a distinct personality."

What you are doing, whether you realize it or not, is trying to go back instead of forwards. God is shining his light along your pathway and you want to return to the darkness. The Bible and Ellen White are in agreement. Study Ev. 615-617. The Scriptures support everything she says there.


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