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I've heard about the 14th Amendment in church last Sabbath.  Does this mean if it is repealed that there is going to be a National Sunday Law enforced in winter time.  Let me know what you guys think about this please.

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Hello Andrew I do not know much about the 14th amendment so I looked up Vikipedia and to me it looks like a very complex piece of law. 

The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution was adopted on July 9, 1868, as one of the Reconstruction Amendments. Arguably one of the most consequential amendments to this day, the amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. The amendment was bitterly contested, particularly by the states of the defeated Confederacy, which were forced to ratify it in order to regain representation in Congress. The amendment, particularly its first section, is one of the most litigated parts of the Constitution, forming the basis for landmark decisions such as Brown v. Board of Education (1954) regarding racial segregation, Roe v. Wade (1973) regarding abortion, Bush v. Gore (2000) regarding the 2000 presidential election, and Obergefell v. Hodges (2015) regarding same-sex marriage. The amendment limits the actions of all state and local officials, including those acting on behalf of such an official.

The amendment's first section includes several clauses: the Citizenship Clause, Privileges or Immunities Clause, Due Process Clause, and Equal Protection Clause. The Citizenship Clause provides a broad definition of citizenship, nullifying the Supreme Court's decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), which had held that Americans descended from African slaves could not be citizens of the United States. Since the Slaughter-House Cases (1873), the Privileges or Immunities Clause has been interpreted to do very little.

The Due Process Clause prohibits state and local government officials from depriving persons of life, liberty, or property without legislative authorization. This clause has also been used by the federal judiciary to make most of the Bill of Rights applicable to the states, as well as to recognize substantive and procedural requirements that state laws must satisfy. The Equal Protection Clause requires each state to provide equal protection under the law to all people, including all non-citizens, within its jurisdiction. This clause has been the basis for many decisions rejecting irrational or unnecessary discrimination against people belonging to various groups.

The second, third, and fourth sections of the amendment are seldom litigated. However, the second section's reference to "rebellion and other crime" has been invoked as a constitutional ground for felony disenfranchisement. The fourth section was held, in Perry v. United States (1935), to prohibit a current Congress from abrogating a contract of debt incurred by a prior Congress. The fifth section gives Congress the power to enforce the amendment's provisions by "appropriate legislation"; however, under City of Boerne v. Flores (1997), this power may not be used to contradict a Supreme Court decision interpreting the amendment.

Trump thinks he can change parts of it maybe he can seeing he managed to install Kavanaugh in the High court.

With days remaining before the mid-term elections, Donald Trump says that he plans an executive order that would end the practice of bestowing U.S. citizenship onto babies born in the U.S. to non-citizen parents, eliminating a long-term practice.

Such a dramatic move would certainly bring legal challenges, because the 14thAmendment of the Constitution actually extends citizenship to “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

Clearly, the president has been working overtime to make immigration issues the top concern for the elections. He doubled down on his vow again yesterday, as noted in a smart piece by The New York Times’ Peter Baker, of seeking a wide variety of fear-evoking pleas to close out the campaign against Democrats.

"With days remaining before the mid-term elections, Donald Trump says that he plans an executive order that would end the practice of bestowing U.S. citizenship onto babies born in the U.S. to non-citizen parents, eliminating a long-term practice."

I have mixed opinions about the executive order by President Trump. So my parents came legally so I'm not worried about losing my natural born citizenship. My parents are from Ecuador, they don't grant citizenship to non citizens parent as well but tinkering with the 14th Amendment can pose legal challenges. 

The citizens of the United States of America according to 1 elder in the Hazelton SDA church states that repealing of the 14th Amendment will lead or bring the National Sunday Law enforcement.  He said that the first part to the 14th Amendment is the important part to protecting liberties.

I believe that could be quite correct Andrew, not that I understand a lot about this law but as it says above on my post, it is a very wide-ranging in scope and could well curtail religious liberty. Ironic is it not as the constitution was founded on just that religious liberty.  

When President John F Kennedy became President a lot of Adventist thought that the Sunday law will be enforced. He was Roman Catholic so what’s your point? 

Gabe the Point being your beloved President Trump is fiddling with the 14th amendment Your own citizenship may be under question also. 


My own citizenship, what do you mean? 

Gabe was you not born in the US by Parents who were not a citizen of US?

If you scroll up just a tad, they migrated legally,. They had their residency. The law will appliy to parents who came illegally. Also, they became naturalized as U.S. citizens.

OK good to hear you can remain in the US and vote for Trump 2020 then if he is still in office that is. He is going to need all support he can ever have.

I'm not clear where this discussion fits into Sunday laws but can I say I don't believe any Sunday laws will be coming our way while we, as a Church, already enforce Sunday in five Pacific Island nations where we officially keep Sunday as the Sabbath. Why does America need to impose Sunday laws, we have our own!

For those who have not followed this story, I share here some more facts about why Sabbath is being kept on Samoa. 

We have here in our own Division SPD a Question that has not been resolved. A strange thing happened in Western Samoa and Tuvalu Mission in 2011, when the Government decided to move the International Date Line so that these two countries sat on the Australian side of the date line. On midnight, (10:00 GMT) as December 29, 2011 ended, Samoa and Tokelau “fast forwarded” to December 31. In other words, these countries chose to “move” from the United States side of the International Date Line to the New Zealand and Australia side to benefit trade and tourism. That meant that the seventh day of the week was now Sunday. What were the Adventists on Samoa and Tokelau to do?

The Biblical Research Committee of the South Pacific Division was asked by Transpacific Union to make an assessment of principles and practices for Sabbath keeping in the Pacific in relation to the dateline. There was a statement as the result of wide consultation. The Biblical Research Committee has listened to and received advice from a number of sources, such as theologians both inside and outside the Division, Transpacific Union administration and members; and submissions have been received.

So the statement runs something like this: The Executive Committee of the Samoa Tokelau Mission has taken an action at the recommendation of the South Pacific Division that the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Samoa will not recognise the new reckoning of days after the IDL shift with regards to the seventh day, and will instead continue to follow the sequence and reckoning of days on the Eastern side of the IDL. This means that while Christian Churches in Samoa will recognise the first day of the week in the new weekly cycle as Sunday (their day of worship), Adventists will treat the same day as the Sabbath. So in short The Division has said keep Sabbath on Sunday.

It continues Remember that early Adventist pioneers also worshiped with Sunday-keepers when Sunday was the true seventh day prior to 1892, and since Chief Malietoa corrected that situation, Adventists in Samoa have been worshiping on the seventh day of the week (now Saturday) for over 120 years as a part of their Adventist identity. Why would we change now and break the weekly cycle just because the name of the day has changed?

This decision must also consider the impact and implications for Sabbath observance in American Samoa. ….

American Samoa is also at this time part of the Samoa and Tokelau Mission. Although standing as a separate territory and political entity they are our brothers and sisters in both culture and spiritual family. Their views and feelings about this change should be considered also.

It is inconceivable that two countries and people so closely located geographically and under the same daytime should be worshiping on different days without a setting of the sun between them! Common sense demands that Adventists within the Samoan group of islands should be worshiping together on the same day. How could a sunny Sabbath in Pago Pago not also be the Sabbath in Apia, just because the Samoan government has drawn a line between Upolu and Tutuila so the day is called Sunday instead of Saturday? Surely Adventists in both nations should be worshiping together on the same seventh day. Now this statement has been pulled down from the internet, I should think that this would indicate something about what who inspired the study.

So In other words it is a decision based as not to rock the political boat. I am not going to pretend to have read everything said about this, and in particular not the 200 page document produced by the Biblical research committee. In reality it has split the Samoan mission down the middle some Keep Sabbath on the new Sabbath Day as the change of the date-line dictates others follow the directive of the SPD and keep Sabbath on what is now a Sunday. Strangely there is no controversy in the Catholic church, Catholics keep the Sunday on the day set by the new date-line.

The current Samoa Sabbath dilemma in fact has come about because the SDA leadership in Samoa and the Pacific region failed to accept that the Samoa government implemented a lawful and legitimate shift in the International Date Line, effectively moving Samoa to the same side as New Zealand and Australia for trading purposes.

To me the simple question is what does the bible say about who is in charge of the dateline? What does the Bible say?

Mat 22:17 Teacher tell us what do you think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” 18  But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why do you test me, you hypocrites? 19  Show me the tax money.” They brought to him a denarius. 20  He asked them, …...

Whose is this image and inscription?” 21  They said to Him, Caesar’s. Then Jesus said to them, “Give therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

Rom 13:1  Let every soul be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those who exist are ordained by God. 2  Therefore he who resists the authority, withstands the ordinance of God; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment. 3  For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Do you desire to have no fear of the authority? Do that which is good, and you will have praise from the same, 4  for he is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid, for he doesn’t bear the sword in vain; for he is a servant of God, an avenger for wrath to him who does evil. 5  Therefore you need to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience’ sake.  6  For this reason you also pay taxes, for they are servants of God’s service, attending continually on this very thing. 7  Therefore give everyone what you owe: if you owe taxes, pay taxes; if customs, then customs; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. 

To me the Question would be who have God set in charge of civil matters and that would also include the Date-line?

God has allowed this challenge to come upon the church for a reason. The church needs to humble itself before Him and be ready to see how He plays this drama out. In the process the church needs to know what it stands for and needs to give a united witness to the world. We must share with the community what God has revealed to us.

Calendar change opens up new opportunities for us as a church: to demonstrate our faithfulness to the Word of God in a world where everything else fluctuates and changes; to show that our Christian faith impacts on all areas of our lives; to develop new approaches to evangelism in our own communities; to renew our commitment as a church to the observance of the Biblical Sabbath; to deepen our understanding of our Adventist identity.


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