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Judge jails Kentucky clerk for refusing marriage licenses. Two police get shot in the back of the head but this is the headliner.

ASHLAND, Ky. (AP) — A federal judge ordered a defiant county clerk to jail for contempt Thursday after she insisted that it would violate her conscience to follow court orders to issue marriage licenses to gay couples.

Rowan County clerk Kim Davis and her deputy clerks were summoned to appear before U.S. District Judge David Bunning after she repeatedly denied them marriage licenses, cited her religious beliefs and "God's authority."

"You can't be separated from something that's in your heart and in your soul," Davis told the judge as she explained how the Supreme Court's ruling legalizing gay marriage nationwide conflicts with the vows she made when she became a born-again Christian.

"I promised to love Him with all my heart, mind and soul because I wanted to make heaven my home," Davis said.

The judge said she left him with no alternative but to jail her, since fines alone would not serve to change her mind. She was escorted out of his courtroom by a deputy, although not in handcuffs, to be turned over to the custody of federal marshals.

The judge also told all five of her deputy clerks that they are free to issue licenses to all applicants, and also face fines or jail if they refuse to comply. He gave them a chance to meet with lawyers before returning to his courtroom to reveal their decisions.

The lawyer for Davis, whose defense is funded by the Liberty Counsel, a religious freedom group, argued that the deputy clerks can only issue licenses under Davis' authority, but the judge overrulled this objection.

Hundreds of people chanted and screamed, "Love won! Love won!" as word of these decisions reached the crowds outside the federal courthouse.

Kim Davis testified about 20 minutes and was very emotional. She described how she became a Christian and said she is unable to believe anything else.

April Miller, one of the women trying to obtain a license, also testified. She said she voted for Kim Davis in the election and that this was only about getting her license, not about trying to change Davis' beliefs.

In front of the federal courthouse, demonstrators shouted at each other, sang hymns and waved signs, which ranged from the violent — turn to Jesus or burn — to simple statements of support. A small plane flew over the courthouse, carrying a banner that said: "Stand Firm Kim."

Davis stopped issuing licenses to all couples in June after the U.S. Supreme Court effectively legalized gay marriage. Despite rulings against her, she's turned away couples again and again.

The couples who originally sued in the case asked Bunning to punish Davis with fines but not jail time.

Davis, an Apostolic Christian, said earlier this week she never imagined this day would come.

"I have no animosity toward anyone and harbor no ill will. To me this has never been a gay or lesbian issue. It is about marriage and God's word," her statement said.

Her critics mock this moral stand, noting that Davis is on her fourth husband after being divorced three times.

Davis served as her mother's deputy in the clerk's office for 27 years before she was elected as a Democrat to succeed her mother in November. Davis' own son is on the staff.

As an elected official, she can be removed only if the Legislature impeaches her, which is unlikely in a deeply conservative state.

Judge Bunning is the son of Jim Bunning, the Hall of Fame pitcher for the Detroit Tigers and Philadelphia Phillies who served two terms as Kentucky's junior U.S. Senator. Former Republican President George W. Bush nominated David Bunning for a lifetime position as a federal judge in 2001 when he was just 35 years old, halfway through his dad's first term in the Senate.

But Bunning has been anything but a sure thing for conservative causes. In 2007, he was part of a three-judge panel on a federal appeals court that overturned Michigan's ban on partial-birth abortion. The panel ruled the state's law was too broad and would outlaw other legal forms of abortion.

In 2003, Bunning ordered the Boyd County School District to allow the student club Gay-Straight Alliance to meet on campus.

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Wrong, please do your research...

Jason,  is it your postion that the Catholic church support gay marriage?

The Supreme Court ruling specfically says that churches do NOT have to conduct gay weddings.

Shannon, with the things that are going on right now, things can change. Think what is going to happen when Pope Francis is coming later this month to the U.S. 

For those who consider that Ms. Davis is doing the right thing consider these three scenarios


1. Transgender I.d.
Right now it is legal to be identified as transgender to get their identification changed to the gender of their choice.  If a Christian is working at social services or the passport office and a male comes in with the proper documentation for having their gender changed to female, should the Christian refuse to update their identification?


2.  Bus Driver
As Christians we are against abortion.  If a Christian bus driver is on his or her route and a lady comes on the bus asking the bus driver to speed up because she is running late for her appointment to have an abortion.  The clinic is on their route.  Should the bus driver tell the woman to get off the bus?  Should he park the bus or intentionally drive slow so that the woman misses her appointment?


3. Ms Davis on other marriage licenses
Yes God is against gay marriage.  However there are many heterosexual marriages that God does not support.  It appears that Ms Davis lives in a small town, so its likely that some of the people coming to file their licenses are known to her.  What if a couple comes to file their certificate and Ms Davis knows the woman is a gold digger and she is simply marrying the man to take his money, should she refuse to file the certificate?  What if a man comes to file his marriage license and he is a outspoken adulterer or wife beater.  What if the couple believes in swinging (trading their spouses for sexual flings) or open marriages?  God is against all of these marriages.  Are we saying that Ms Davis should refuse their marriage license even though their paperwork is correct?


Consider Ms Davis has been in charge of the clerk office for several years and unfortunately statistics show that a large percentage of marriages end in divorce.  So it’s likely that she’s seen her fair share of bad decisions for marriage.  Yet she has made the decision to refuse licenses only after gays got the right to marry.  And let us not forget that currently in her town even heterosexuals are being refused their God given right to file marriage licenses by her.


Let us not forget that as Christians we fight for our rights.  The right to not take exams on Saturdays.  The right to school our children how we want.  The right to publicly preach that homosexuality is a sin.  And there are individuals in government positions who are targeting Christians making life hard for us.  Let us not be hypocrites and say that abuse of office okay as long as it’s a Christian doing it.

There are some excellent opinions and arguments here that really make one think deeply on this subject.  On one hand Mrs Davis could have quit her job and she would not have any blame for doing so, on the other hand the Judge is trying to make Mrs Davis by force  sign marriage licenses against her conscience. 

So I have a question concerning this and that is, is the Holy Spirit in control of her life?  While I agree that we cannot force others not to sin, likewise we cannot for other to do what they consider to be sin.  She could resign her job and then we would not be discussing this right now, but in some sense this comes as a warning to all who would stand against the state's agenda that is forced on a majority by a minority.   

So when will  an SDA pastors end up in hot water for not presiding over a gay wedding or allowing one in a church and what stand will we take, and why do we as Christians allow the state to be involved in what was clearly something that is religious in nature and between God and man and that is marriage which was instituted in the beginning?

So when a pastor marries a couple is he not part of church and state?  What happens when he discriminates and marries a man and women but not a gay couple?  

Good questions. I am happy she did this so that our eyes be opened. Those who are fighting for religious freedom have this to help in fighting for our rights and religious freedom in an increasing wicked world. Remember the end-time sins will not be murder and stealing or violent crimes but deep sins like pride and homosexuality, both of which show a total hatred of God. 

I noted that you said “Remember the end-time sins will not be murder and stealing or violent crimes but deep sins like pride and homosexuality, both of which show a total hatred of God.”

Homosexulaity  is clearly an abomination and a sign of the last days   But consider  Jesus said  in Luke 17:26 “ And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.”

Now look at Ellen White’s description of the people at the flood:
“The earth also was corrupt before God; and the earth was filled with violence." God had given men His commandments as a rule of life, but His law was transgressed, and every conceivable sin was the result. {PP 91.2}
Polygamy had been early introduced, contrary to the divine arrangement at the beginning. The Lord gave to Adam one wife, showing His order in that respect. But after the Fall, men chose to follow their own sinful desires; and as the result, crime and wretchedness rapidly increased. Neither the marriage relation nor the rights of property were respected. Whoever coveted the wives or the possessions of his neighbor, took them by force, and men exulted in their deeds of violence. They delighted in destroying the life of animals; and the use of flesh for food rendered them still more cruel and bloodthirsty, until they came to regard human life with astonishing indifference.  {PP 91.3} 

But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere. {1SP 69.1} 

Ellen White stated that all sins were rampant in the days of Noah and they were incredibly violent.  She did not state that homosexuality and pride were the worse.  The worse sin was amalgamation of man and beast.  Now of course pride is at the heart of every sin.   

We often make sweeping statements that homosexuality is the worst because it was called an abomination.  There are many things listed in the bible as abominations

Deuteronomy 27:15 “ Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place…”

Detueronomy 32:16 “ They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.”

Note the abomination of idolatry was what resulted in Israel being sent into captivity.  Though there were homosexuals in the land.  The abomination that brought God’s wrath was idolatry.

Proverbs 6:16-19 “ These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.”

So once again homosexuality is abomination but there are many other ones that we commit and we are more lax in regard to that will be great end time sins.

Consider:  Genesis 6:5 “And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”

2 Timothy 3:1-5 “ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”

All sin is wrong, homosexuality is a sign of the end, but it is not the great sin.  And as Ellen White puts it the limit to God’s mercy will be the passing of a National Sunday Law.  And as Seventh-day Adventists we know that is nothing more than paganized Christianity aka idolatry, in Christian garb.  The same abomination that had Israel sent into exile.

God bless these are my last statements on this topic.  I think it best to make one’s point then leave things alone.  Forgive me for my long replies.  I try to make sure my points are clear and proven not from be but from God and resources.

From what you said I do not believe you understand what she meant by 'amalgamation of man and beast'. Could you tell us what you think she meant?

To your questions:

1.  Is the Holy Spirit in control of her life? 
The only answer is we don’t know.  She’s a professed Christian and seems sincere but that does not mean that the Holy Spirit is in control.  People who speak in so called tongues are very sincere but that is not the Holy Spirit.  Also looking at the fact that she is a recent convert means as a babe she can be in a growth process so indeed when we are in error at times the Holy Spirit is still active in our lives and we’re just learning to surrender and obey.  So we can’t say if the Holy Spirit is or is not in control.


2. When will an SDA pastor end up in hot water for not presiding over a gay wedding or allowing one in a church and what stand will we take?
As Seventh-day Adventist our view of prophecy and last day events are different from virtually all other denominations.  We know that times will get worse not better.  It is highly probable that the gay marriage will be forced on pastors.  In those instances pastors are to refuse to carry out that wedding.  We should take whatever legal measures can be taken to defend our rights.  And this will be presented under the separation of church and State.  However we know that it will indeed get to the point where the State will enforce on true believers to uphold immoral laws such as a national Sunday law.    Once again we are to refuse to do so and try all our legal options.  However we know that the time will come when the government will insist that churches who do not abide by their laws will be closed down.  Then we will accept that.  This is why Ellen White said the time will come when the only work for Seventh-day Adventists will be colporteur work and medical missionary work.

Now you may say isn’t that what Ms Davis is doing?  The answer is no.  The separation of Church and States gives Churches and pastors the right to on moral grounds refuse to marry someone that is unfit according to our religious beliefs.   However Ms. Davis is hired as a representative of the State.  She nor, the mayor, not governor or even president is a law unto themselves.  The only job a representative of the State can do is carry out the job profile given to them.  Ms Davis was elected to file forms.  Her refusal to file forms of legal American citizens is the equivalent of a pastor demanding that all his members vote for his the politician he supports or be disfellowshiped from the church.   State does not make moral and decisions and the church does not make State decisions.

If you consider this, for the entire argument about gay marriage a big concern is will they force gay marriage on the churches.  Churches have for years said get your civil unions by going to the courts but leave us out of your gay marriages.  Now gays have been given the  option to get married by the government.  A church can still refuse.  However now we see Christians in government saying no we will not let you get your document for your civil marriage agreement.  This is sending a negative message that Christians are saying that we will not allow gays to be married at all.  Instead of it saying we do not support gay marriage.  Gay lobby groups can use this to further strengthen their support that the church is now a direct threat to gay marriage.  Instead of it being the church wants nothing to do with gay marriage.  This is therefore a push closer to churches being forced to marry gays as opposed to churches having the right to refuse the marriages.

3.  Why do we as Christians allow the state to be involved in what was clearly something that is religious in nature and between God and man and that is marriage which was instituted in the beginning?

Jesus said “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.”  There is a God given place for the State.  Marriage is an act given to us by God and is first spiritual in nature.  However we live in a world composed of countries and states and cities with all their varying laws.  For instance when an individual dies they have material possessions such as a home, money, property that must be passed onto the nearest of kin.  This is not a moral issue this is a civil issue. 
Note Luke 12:13,14 “And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me. 14 And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?”

Jesus the spiritual leader is asked about a civil issue, and his response is who made me a judge over you?  This is a civil matter that belongs to the courts.  Now the courts cannot simply use their opinion to decide who gains the property of the deceased they need documentation.  This is why a marriage license has to be filed in the courts.  Imagine if a man died and he was a millionaire and 5 different women show up saying that they were married to this man and they are the ones entitled to his estate.  If there is no documentation we would be running on opinions and manipulation would rule the day.  For many other reasons such as rights of children, care when one is sick, the marriage certificate declares who is to be responsible in these matters.  Also marriage certificates being filed in the courts protect against bigamy, multiple wives, which was a big problem in the past. 

This is why Romans 13:3,4 says “For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.”

Therefore the government has a vital role when it comes to filing marriage certificates.

4.  So when a pastor marries a couple is he not part of church and state?
No.  Church and state means when one uses moral power and civil power at once, forcing people to do your will.  A pastor who officiates a wedding is simply singing to the register that he witnessed and approved of the wedding for the couple.  He sends that document to be registered by the government.  Even though the pastor signs that paper the government can still refuse to approve the marriage, or at least to do their own examination to confirm that the marriage is valid.  This is often the case when an
American Citizen marries a foreigner.  In the church the pastor officiated the spiritual ceremony but it is the government that gives civil approval. 

God bless these are my last statements on this topic.  I think it best to make one’s point then leave things alone.   Forgive me for my long replies.  I try to make sure my points are clear and proven not from be but from God and resources.

The examples you give are a bit ridiculous. In the case of the bus driver, there is no reason to drive faster or kick her off his bus. The driver should maintain his current speed which would give him time to discuss with the ignorant lady the consequences of murder.

Noone can change their gender, so thus one is a non-issue. The passport should document that this human was male but have done things to look female but he is in fact a male.

Point number three is irrelevant since, according to the Bible, only a male and female can be married. We are not called to judge, But we cannot participate in the sin of Sodom and believe God will smile on us. The sin is the one which will destroy civilization as we know it and will bring in the end. Christians should have nothing to do with thus currupting vile degrading evil sin. It destroys the image of God from man... 

Let’s analyze your answers in relation to Ms Davis.

1.  “In the case of the bus driver, there is no reason to drive faster or kick her off his bus. The driver should maintain his current speed which would give him time to discuss with the ignorant lady the consequences of murder.”

So the bus driver, a civil servant, is to just efficiently do his job and speak his religious conviction.  Yet the woman will only arrive at the clinic is he drives her there. 
Now we say in Ms Davis’ case the civil servant is to refuse to issue her certificate because it is against her conscience.  We don’t say that she should do her job efficiently and  peak her mind that homosexuality is a sin.  Both are civil servants, both are hired to do a specific job, drive and file documents.  Yet one should do his job allowing an abortion while another is to refuse her job because it will allow a gay marriage.  The truth is the driver would not be approving abortion by driving the woman to the clinic, nor would Ms. Davis be approving gay marriage by file a homosexual’s certificate.   Why?   Because neither was hired to approve moral actions.  They were hired to drive and file forms.  To treat the driver situation different from Ms Davis is hypocrisy.

2.  “No one can change their gender, so thus one is a non-issue. The passport should document that this human was male but have done things to look female but he is in fact a male.”

Legally you can change your gender on your passport and it will say female not female but in fact male.  “In June 2010, the State Department announced a new policy to issue passports that reflect a person’s current gender when either a previous passport or other personal documentation presented by an applicant reflects a different gender. Under the new policy, a transgender person can obtain a passport reflecting his or her current gender by submitting a certification from a physician confirming that he or she has had appropriate clinical treatment for gender transition.”  http://transequality.org/know-your-rights/passports

Here is where we can agree.  No one can change their gender in the eyes of God.  Therefore whether they say they are a female or not does not matter.  God made them a male.  In the same sense gay marriage is not approved in the eyes of God.  So no matter what the paper says God does not approve that marriage.  Therefore is you are saying that the clerk at the passport filing a transgender person’s passport is an non-issue then Ms. Davis filing a homosexual’s marriage certificate should also be a non-issue because both are not binding in the eyes of God.  To treat  a passport i.d. different from a marriage certificate is also hypocrisy.

 

3. Point number three is irrelevant since, according to the Bible, only a male and female can be married. We are not called to judge, But we cannot participate in the sin of Sodom and believe God will smile on us. The sin is the one which will destroy civilization as we know it and will bring in the end. Christians should have nothing to do with thus currupting vile degrading evil sin. It destroys the image of God from man... “

 

Yes, only a male and female can be married in the eyes of God but God does say in 2 Corinthians 6:14  “ Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?”

You also said “The sin is the one which will destroy civilization as we know it and will bring in the end.”

Once again, homosexuality is an abomination a great sin.  However based on the Bible and writings of Ellen White homosexuality is not the great sin that destroys civilizations.  It will be a sign a civilization is about to be destroyed but it is not the great sin.

Consider: 
Bible Genesis 6:1-3 “And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”

The Bible says the great sin that lead to the flood was the intermarriage of the sons of God with the sons of men (Cain).  Right after the marriages God lists the 120 years of probation for Noah to preach before the flood.

Genesis 6:5 “ And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”  The next thing we know is there is  non-stop wickedness.

Note homosexuality, Sodom and Gomorrah  does not come into the picture until Genesis 19, a century to centuries after the flood.  Note destruction came to the planet before homosexuality.  And Sodom and Gomorrah were merely the descendants of the apostate from Babel.  Homosexuality is a result.  A sign that man has turned far from God.  But many great sins lead to the sin of homosexuality.

This is the message of Romans 1:21-27 “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

Note Paul is saying prior to homosexuality was idolatry worshiping created things instead of God.  Because of this he says God left to and they went on to homosexuality.  Homosexuality is a result of turning away from God. 

So consider this, if we make the symptom, homosexuality our great fight, then we’re missing the root, turning our backs on God.

God bless these are my last statements on this topic.  I think it best to make one’s point then leave things alone.   Forgive me for my long replies.  I try to make sure my points are clear and proven not from be but from God and resources.

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