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People stop calling your children "KIDS" : In school we are taught that "kids" are baby goat!! Is you child a baby goat? 
How can you "RAISE" a child, when "RAISING IS ONLY FOR ANIMALS" 
When you say you "Raise" your "Kids", you are really saying You Raise a baby Goat; which in other words means you are raising an animal. Is that really so?

Please practice saying, I TRAIN MY CHILD/ CHILDREN

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I wish we all can learn in a politely and tenderly teaching our children.. Oopss not yet mine lol. I am still waiting for my wedding party, walking in the aisle of the church..

Of course education by punishment works, nobody will doubt it or has. But it is the lower road even when executed in love and best intent.

Frequently with the authoritarian education style, problems will arise once the child starts to question authority in either the specific case of its parents or in general. And it is safe to say that an education which has a higher motivation for good behavior than avoiding punishment (including the divine) will be better suited to protect a child from the dangers that arise during this phase - especially since it is greatly encouraged in these times. Critical thinking and the questioning of authority has been sweeping so many youths and young adults out of the church since their parents failed to give them anything beyond punishment to keep them in line and not because these thoughts are bad in themselves.

We cannot turn our children into eremites to keep them out of harms way, we should properly equip them to deal with the spirit and the way of thinking that the world has. Unfortunately, negative conditioning (aka whipping) is only second best as John states:

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.

So the way God told us to properly discipline is the low road? How arrogant!

And how ignorant to not see the difference between fear-induced and love-motivated behavior. Just like there's a difference between the old and new covenant - which Paul actually calls better. And I'm sure he was called arrogant as well.

I honestly congratulate your parents to their success. But I do not believe that causing pain of any kind is the best way to teach. There may be situations - and ages - where this might be necessary. But I don't think it reflects God's character to use violence and pain as the primary means of teaching, do you? Rather it can be a kind of last resort. But unfortunately it is one to which people look after having failed in their parental duties early on.

Let's see, those who I love I chastise, beat the child, he will not die, thy rod and thy staff they comfort me, ie rod of correction and staff of protection. I think it is perfectly reflective of his character.

That's badly mixed up. Beating and such reflect sinfulness and error, dangerous deviance from God and not His character! You scare me.

That's straight from the bible, does the bible scare you?

Your quotes are from the Bible - your conclusions are not.

Mat 23:26: You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

Please explain to me how you want to "beat clean" the inside of a child. Or how you want to cast out fear by punishment and the rod - and yet perfect a child in love.


Beating merely cleans the outside. There may be a time and place for it - e.g. in concepts a child cannot grasp yet or in case of mortal danger. But God wants to transform the heart and take residence in it - and proper behavior will follow. Godly education needs to aim for the latter. But don't be advocating the exception as the leading principle.

Who said anything about spanking being the leading principle? That's something that you came up with, not me. I stand by what I said, a parent that is unwilling to spank their child is doing more harm than good. That is evidenced by society today.

 Using physical discipline is often not the BEST discipline but sometimes it IS the best because it is the only effective way. 

A good parent will have to seldom if ever resort to spanking. Children are different however and some are easy to raise and some are very strong willed. 
Sometimes it must be established who is in charge of the situation.

I have seen parents sit down and try to have a deep intellectual discussion with a strong willed 3 year old. The child is often smarter than the parent. And after the parent thinks he/she have done the right thing the child runs off to do again exactly what he was disciplined for and with even more defiance than before because he wants his way and will have his way.

Even with adults. The Lord talked and talked and talked through the prophets. When the people ignored them He used physical means to get their attention and they sometimes repented.

Yes, I'm afraid kids can force you onto the low road sometimes. But that's what it is - a low road because it always is the result of a previous victory of the adversary and oftentimes even caused by those who then are in that crunch to "properly discipline" as you say. I'll agree with Salomon that he who must use the rod did not instruct his child in time.

Society evidences everything and nothing - remember there is nothing new under the sun. But either way we should not take our standpoints by conclusions about society - I'd rather go to a reliable source.

Agreed Kevin, I am not saying that it should be the first choice, but sometimes it is the only recourse.


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