I have seen suggestions on this board suggesting that the Adventist church conduct gay weddings, and other that gays not be allowed to attend Adventist chruches. Neither of those are going to happen, so its important to discuss what role gays do have in the church.
It amazes me that most Adventists like other Christians were shocked to hear about the Episcopals ordaining an openly gay man as a church pastor. Today, the church has been shocked into line, so much so that we may soon overtake even the Episcopals in embracing the WOPE and the gay agenda. Colporteur and others on this forum repeatedly showed the link between WOPE and the gay agenda. Now Netherlands is blazing the trend and "advising" churches to toe the line. Entertaining sin outside the church is bad enough; advising the church to embrace sin is like poking fingers in God's face.
Yes True Dan the roots in this is Humanism and who is behind the humanistic movement.
We now see Humanism getting a foothold in our Church, Humanism is A system of thought that rejects religious beliefs and centers on humans and their values, capacities, and worth. And the denial of any power or moral value superior to that of humanity; the rejection of religion in favour of a belief in the advancement of humanity by its own efforts. This is because the Church wants to be a friend of the world. In other words having a foot in each camp. I am not saying all has this problem but it seems like there is enough to move the church in the direction of the mainstream.
God wants us to flee from humanism. Repeatedly, He has warned us against its deadly influence and shown how it would infiltrate the church. Using the symbol of a little horn in Daniel chapter 7, God predicted the Antichrist would be humanistic. “I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, . . . and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things” (Daniel 7:8). Notice that it is not the eyes of the Spirit that are on this little horn, but “the eyes of man.” Here we see that Antichrist lacks true spiritual discernment and sees life only through human eyes.
The Christian church has not escaped the permeating influence of humanism. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), in its document “Human Sexuality and the Christian Faith” (December 1991), challenges its members to evaluate prejudices against homosexuals, insisting that “what we personally find offensive is not necessarily sinful.” Furthermore, it says, “We must distinguish between moral judgments regarding same-sex activity in biblical times and in our own time.” We see this influence making its mark even here in the SDA church. Personally I believe that Womans Ordination is also part of the Humanism movement.
" Notice that it is not the eyes of the Spirit that are on this little horn, but “the eyes of man.” Here we see that Antichrist lacks true spiritual discernment and sees life only through human eyes."
"the humanist belief in continuous emergent evolution"- Wendell Thomas
Do you think there is a link to the "emerging church' movement?
.” An additional context was GYCSE’s deep concern over a looming Spectrum-sponsored “Adventist Forum Conference” called “A Third Way,”
I have many concerns. First, the EC movement either minimizes or ignores the life-and-death importance of believing in, humbly submitting to, and fully obeying solid, non-negotiable Bible truth, especially the Three Angel’s messages. Secondly, even though Christian concepts may be strongly expressed, much of EC teaching is insidiously laced with Roman Catholic mysticism and New Agism, both of which ultimately lead to the greatest peril of all, deadly spiritualism and invasion by evil spirits. Third, under the guise of promoting a deeper experience with God, EC teachings have become one of Satan’s subtlest vehicles in his campaign “to deceive, if possible, even the elect” (Matt. 24:24). Fourth, my biggest concern is for Seventh-day Adventists, especially our young people. At all costs, we must avoid these dangers.
Thanks Bart for that eyeopening Post. Yes we see Satan undermining the Church in so many ways One wonders if there will be anything left for Christ to come back for. Spirit of Prophecy says there will be some, praise the Lord.
Thanks Bart for that Steve Wohlberg interview. Very much appreciated.
This looks like some set of individuals who are trying to test the church's strength. What would be the point of allowing that group under question to see the church as a safe place, if they are not prepared to acknowledge that their lifestyle is in direct opposition to God's will and instructions? Is it that they're prepared to abandon such a lifestyle, or is it that they want the SDA Church to conform? We need to take a stand and show the world that this is God's Church against which the "gates of hell shall not prevail" Instead our leaders have become fearful. May God help us....
"Although we acknowledge the biblical ideal of a monogamous, heterosexual relationship, we continue to emphasise that it is an ideal. The basis of Christianity is that all people fall short of God's ideal;"
This is their reasoning?
FIrst, it says, "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;", (Romans 3:23).
It does not say all continue to sin, but rather:
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an
"we, as Christians, must welcome all children of God – who all fall short of God’s ideal"
1 Cor. 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
Calling gays "children of God" is the same as calling the wicked righteous:
Prov. 24:24 He that saith unto the wicked, Thou [art] righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him:
Nice bigotry and double standards.
I would like to see you say the same to or for anyone who commits a sin or sins described in the same passages you quote here but than our churches would be empty.
So i guess its ok to claim homosexual people are not children of God but everyone else is.
Sorry but your wrong on nearly all possible accounts.
Even more so since you forgot one word here which you are doing yourself by such statements:
1 Cor 5:11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one.
So after your standards we should not let you feel safe and welcome in church? Really?
Or is this not part of the very same text you use in your post?
re·vile verb \ri-ˈvī(-ə)l\: to speak about (someone or something) in a very critical or insulting way
Is it against the bible to call sin by its right name, especially when it's a very shameful abominable sin?
Is it lawful for a 'Christian' to justify their evil ways or sins? It is much safer to repent than to attempt to justify sin, is it not?
You seem to miss the point Jason.
1) there is nothing in the bible which would say this or that sin is worse or anything.
Sin is sin. Thats the whole point you seem to miss. Thats why i called it double standards and bigotry.
Only cause your moral understanding thinks that this or that sin is worse than what you are committing every other day does not make that view a godly or a biblical one.
I would even go so far and say that by the sheer amount of mentions there are other sins we do not call out at all yet are sin if we go after biblical standards.
2) What you and others do with homosexual people you do not do with sins the majority of people are comitting every other day. Nobody claims that those who comitt sins which the majority comitts regularily should not feel safe or welcome by our church. For homosexual people we do exactly that. Again double standards.
3) Not you nor anyone else here in this thread says anything about repent/justify argument. Its all against homosexuals and they should be excluded etc. All of those arguments are not a christian way nor a biblical one.
4) Last but not least i know its hard to grasp for you but:
Being LGBTI is not a sin in itself no matter what. The only argument which can be made is that homosexual sex is sin according to a few poorly translated verses but this concept is often forgotten when claims like "homosexuals are not children of god" or similars are made. Alone that statement is so far off the mark and what scripture teaches its unbelievable.
Sin is sin. Celebrating a lifestyle of sin is evil. There is nothing righteous or uplifting in that. To encourage people to continue sinning in a lifestyle that leads to their destruction puts blood on your hands.
Ezekiel 3:18-19, "When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for[b] their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked person and they do not turn from their wickedness or from their evil ways, they will die for their sin; but you will have saved yourself."
Such is the warning we find in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
Trying to make people feel comfortable in their sinful lifestyle now, only robs them of an eternity of life and peace in heaven.
And if you examine Ezekiel, to do such a thing imperils not only their soul but your own. This is not something to play with. It is worse than loading a revolver and playing Russian Roulette back and forth.
Robbing someone of eternal reward is very serious matter.