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I have seen suggestions on this board suggesting that the Adventist church conduct gay weddings, and other that gays not be allowed to attend Adventist chruches.  Neither of those are going to happen, so its important to discuss what role gays do have in the church. 

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Church in The Netherlands Commits Itself to Being a Safe Place for LGBTI Individuals

The Netherlands Union Conference has advised all churches in the Netherlands to "fully commit themselves to ensuring that LGBTI individuals feel safe in the church." In addition, NUC leadership says it would "strongly advise against any steps to revoke the membership of LGBTI people, given the unsafe environment this would create in churches."
 
This statement was agreed after the recent General Conference vote to adopt guidelines for "responding to homosexual and other alternative sexual practices." 
 
A vote was taken at a recent meeting of the Netherlands Union Conference Executive Committee to publish the statement, which follows in its entirety (translated here):
 
"There is a great deal of discussion about sexuality, and specifically LGBTI individuals (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transsexual, intersex), at this moment. The General Conference recently held an international conference on this topic in South Africa, and last week the board of the world church voted on guidelines regarding LGBTI individuals.
 
In the Netherlands the topic of sexuality has been under discussion for quite some time, and in 2012 the delegates of the local churches voted the following: 
 
Following the example of the ‘Safe Church’ initiative, the delegates, gathered together in committee, charge the Executive Board in the coming administrative period to consider the problems of and concerning people with a non-heterosexual nature, so that they can feel safe in the church.
 
Following this vote, the Executive Committee has committed itself to ensuring that LGBTI individuals feel safe in the church. In taking this decision to heart, the Netherlands Union Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist church would like to respond to the General Conference’s recently-voted guideline.
 
Although we acknowledge the biblical ideal of a monogamous, heterosexual relationship, we continue to emphasise that it is an ideal. The basis of Christianity is that all people fall short of God's ideal; this is why we require God’s grace and Christ’s sacrifice. This leads to the conclusion that we, as Christians, must welcome all children of God – who all fall short of God’s ideal – into our churches with love.
 
We advise the churches in the Netherlands to fully commit themselves to ensuring that LGBTI individuals feel safe in the church. We would strongly advise against any steps to revoke the membership of LGBTI people, given the unsafe environment this would create in churches."

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“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”   Romans 1:20

The culture of our world puts "sex" on a pedestal and worships it.  Young people today cannot understand going without sex. Sex is not just a part of life, for them sex is a means to an end, a lifestyle to be lived. Children in the western world are sexualized with everything they see.  Children in American schools are taught that they have no control and the schools hand out condoms. 

If you look at the whole of the Bible you see a trend, sex is just a small part of the whole plan. It is the binding agent between a man and a woman and it goes with great responsibility.  This is the reason I quoted Romans 1:20.  In the animal world sex means one thing and that is procreation. Almost all animals have short cycles where they can breed, so the act of sex is a very short part of life for many animals.  Homosexuality has no place in the animal kingdom.  If it did or does it is a dead end.  In ancient Roman and Greek culture which the Book of Romans is written for, in it all forms of deviance were permitted, things we would find shocking today.  Manuela is teaching some Christianized form of homosexuality by saying it has to do with translation and cultural intent.  

I counter with two things: love, honor, obedience, and duty to our Lord Jesus Christ come before sex. We will not die if we go without sex or thinking about sex.  Life is so to full of goodness to just focus one's crotch.  

Secondly, one of the themes of the Bible is Gods relationship: God, man and woman.  Jesus and his bride, not Jesus and his buddy, Jesus and his Church, not Jesus and his multicultural LBGT campfire meeting.  

If we had honest teachers we would be teaching young people the awesome responsibility of sex not the worldly and demonic teaching of "do what you want" and "you cannot help who you are you were born with burning lust".  It is the teaching of "self" which is totally against what Christ taught.  We are called out to be Christ like not conformed to this world.  

 

"...In the animal world sex means one thing and that is procreation. Almost all animals have short cycles where they can breed, so the act of sex is a very short part of life for many animals.  Homosexuality has no place in the animal kingdom.  If it did or does it is a dead end. ..."

Only replying to this part here since i do not want to argue and hurt feelings.

As of 1999 (15 years ago already) in the animal kingdom as you so call it there are 1500 known species with same-sex / homosexual behaviors. Documented and well observed and studied it is in well above 500 species non of those are even close of being extinct.

So the argument you are trying to make is based on wrong data. You assume it does not happen in "lesser species" / nature so it must not happen with humans since it would be against nature. While in fact nature itself presents with more than 1500 species ranging from simple worms to primates with same-sex behaviors.

Regards

"Only replying to this part here since i do not want to argue and hurt feelings"  

Funny.

"As of 1999 (15 years ago already) in the animal kingdom as you so call it there are 1500 known species with same-sex / homosexual behaviors. Documented and well observed and studied it is in well above 500 species non of those are even close of being extinct."

What does that say about science that they would spend so much time trying to prove gay sex by spending months and days of watching animal sex.  What kind of scientist projects human behavior on to animal behavior?  I grew up on a farm and have seen animals do what animals do which could be construed as gay by the ignorant, but I have never seen a gay cow or a horse or any other animal. All I can do is laugh at your answer. 

"So the argument you are trying to make is based on wrong data."

Data? Do you believe the Bible?

Based on the Bible, which says we live in a fallen world.  The bible says that thorns and brambles are not normal, but part of a fallen world.  We do not live in an evolving world, but a devolving world filled with death and perversion.  

 

 

The difference is we are not animals, but humans with a higher sense of reasoning and intelligence. That is part of the problem you see. Modern biologists with their false scientific concepts have placed us as part of the animal kingdom by virtue of organ function and similarity...but the bible makes it clear that humans were made in His image and likeness, which place us in a higher order of intelligence, and which makes us more accountable to our Creator.

Its very simple Manuela....Its either we conform to a pure and righteous life, or not. We can't have it both ways...and am sure that God isn't the author of confusion either. He says what He means, and means what He says.

Well said my brother in Christ. When one is crucified with Christ there can be no place for sexual immorality in one's life. God has instituted marriage and not same-sex unions. I have no pity for homosexuals, or homosexual sympathizers. I am prepared however to accept any former practicing homosexuals who are prepared to walk in the "newness of life" in full fellowship with the saints.

Is it against the bible to call sin by its right name, especially when it's a very shameful abominable sin?

Is it lawful for a 'Christian' to justify their evil ways or sins? It is much safer to repent than to attempt to justify sin,  is it not? 

.......................................

it is GODS Goodness that leads Gay  to repentance- Rom 2:4

and i say this very respectfully to u with great alarm for you

not your stuff you put out

 :(

#take heed dear Brother

and GBU no one here is justifying sin

you dont realize how you come across

in the many months/posts we have gone around separately

or in our dance together here

#take heed dear Brother

and GBU no one here is justifying sin

you dont realize how you come across

in the many months/posts we have gone around separately

or in our dance together here

Not you Brother MFG but there are those that would.  Our Lord Jesus is greater than our sins.  Remember Moses lifted up the serpent on a stick to prove sin is defeated.  

Hi Bart!

its always nice to see u!

i just watched this son PBS

too much in the world hate LGBTI community

this is one example

the good and glorious intention and executing missionary of spreading Gods love by american evangelists

has helped the country to persecute and kill gays

many have been saved in JESUS

many have heightened hate and fear to grow in their hearts

:(

For documentary filmmaker Roger Ross Williams, Uganda is a country afflicted. But HIV/AIDS, malnutrition, and other physical ailments are not what concern Williams the most; for him, the true epidemic threatening this land and its people is far more insidious—a plague of the spirit. “I love Uganda,” intones a weary, accented voice at the opening of God Loves Uganda, which was broadcast earlier this week on PBS and is now available on iTunes and Netflix. “It’s a very loving country, a caring country. But, something frightening is happening that has the potential to destroy Uganda … and it is coming from the outside.” As images of white hands being fervently laid on dark-skinned children flash across the screen, the outside threat becomes clear: ultra-conservative American evangelicalism.

If you’ve followed the story of Uganda’s infamous “Kill the Gays” law over the past few years, you’re probably aware that prominent American evangelicals like Scott Lively and Lou Engle have been harshly criticized for their role in introducing a strain of zealous social conservatism—including an especially vicious condemnation of homosexuality—to Africa. But media reports of this phenomenon have been mere hints compared to the dense epidemiological survey that God Loves Uganda represents. Williams’ vision of the relationship between American missionary groups—like the Kansas City-based International House of Prayer that he profiles here—and the Ugandan government and culture is one of contagion, infection. Early in the film, an animated map of the globe shows salvation spreading like a plague across the world. A little later, a young woman on her first mission trip to the country describes her goal as one of virality:

One of my greatest hopes is to deposit what I’ve kind of received at IHOP, that DNA of prayer and worship. DNA replicates itself, and so I think that everybody wants to replicate their values and the core parts of who they are.

And as Williams shows, the evangelical movement’s vector-teams have been successful—images of spirit-struck white people wailing and “rapid-fire” praying for Africa in Missouri transform into scenes of wild-eyed Ugandan ministers screaming at strangers in a traffic jam, of white-walled rooms full of people jumping and flailing and lifting chairs in the air, of sweat-drenched Africans speaking in tongues. Williams has created a zombie movie, only the dreaded mutation is one of hateful Christian ideology rather than cells: Call it “World War C.”

Tracing the origins of this epidemic prove upsettingly simple. “The West has been in a decline,” Lou Engle, founder of prayer rally program “The Call,” explains in the gruff, breathy, slightly crazed tone that a certain kind of minister uses to convey his fervor. “But right now I think that Africa, it’s the firepot of spiritual renewal and revival. It’s very exciting to me.” America is becoming increasingly resistant to his bigoted version of Christianity; time to find greener pastures elsewhere. And as another missionary explains, Uganda is the perfect place: “50 percent of the population is under 15 years old. … What [we] can do is limited, but we can multiply ourselves in these young people.” Add that to the strategy of tying aid and charity work to values exportation in order to ensure a captive audience, and it’s easy to see why many Ugandans so readily accept the evangelical message.


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Missionaries have always bugged me. They use a lure of technology, medicine, food to ensnare people in their web.  More...

-SMays1

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Well, that and the fact that Lively and his ilk have done a great job convincing Ugandan parents that homosexuals are out to get their children. This “recruiting” notion is as old as time and should have been discredited by now, but it seems to work particularly well in a culture that has not had much experience with sexual minorities. Of course, the irony is that it’s the radical evangelicals who are doing the recruiting here, literally whispering their lifestyle into the ears of kids—as a poignant scene at the funeral of slain activist David Kato shows, actual LGBTQ people are struggling just to stay alive.

God may love Uganda, but many of Uganda’s people have forgotten—with the eager help of Americans—how to love their brothers and sisters. Williams’ film has provided a bracing diagnosis of the problem, but fixing it seems daunting: To my knowledge, medicine has yet to produce a vaccine against hate.

http://www.godlovesuganda.com/ DVD

"Safe Place for LGBTI Individuals"   The premise is wrong LGBTI are very safe and well protected by the world. 


Here is what is really happening:  Brothers kicked off TV show for voicing opinion about gays http://www.deadline.com/2014/05/url-benham-brothers-respond-hgtv-ca...

and:

Pasadena Public Health Director Eric Walsh — whose churlish remarks about gays, the prophet Muhammad, Jay Z and evolution, among other things, have caused Pasadena to put him on leave.http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-pasadena-public-hea...

and:

DES MOINES, Iowa — Management at the Newton Daily News said Tuesday they fired the newspaper's editor a week after he posted on a personal blog that gay organizations are trying to reword the Bible "to make their sinful nature 'right with God.' "http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/ee20bb2ff4054240abe58f866c971...

and:

LOS ANGELES, April 5, 2014 — Mozilla CEO Brendan Eich resigned under pressure from gay rights activists. Eich was never accused of discriminatory behavior or creating a hostile work environment, but the pressure came after it was revealed that he donated $1,000 of his own money in 2008 to anti-gay marriage Proposition 8. http://www.commdiginews.com/politics-2/the-racism-behind-firing-moz...

"...The premise is wrong LGBTI are very safe and well protected by the world. "

Not quoting everything now.

I am sorry Bart but i think you are mixing up a lot of things right now.

The quoted links have nothing to do with being and feeling safe and welcome in church. All those articles are in regards to society and the US society at that.

Even more so they are a little bit biased as in suggesting homosexuals have too many rights and completely fcusing on the matter of LGB ignoring the TI.

I do understand you are "against" homosexuals however being and feeling safe in a society has something to with equal rights, equal protection, equal responsibilities etc. In regards of rights and protection even the US society, which has progressing a lot lately, lacks a lot for LGB and even more for TI.

As an example ENDA still has not passed US legislative. Which means basically you can be fired for being gay and nothing else in 29 states. I could list a lot more examples of such problems but i guess you get the picture.

One does not have to agree with the lifestyle or anything one can belief diferently whatever but i think or at least i hope we can agree on it that discrimination wether you are of certain gender certain color certain orientation race religion etc is a bad thing in a society today and should not exist.

It is one of the foundations we build societies upon and we as SDA accept and demand as well in regards of religous freedom.

Now to add one more point since you wrote it: "...The premise is wrong LGBTI are very safe and well protected by the world. ":

This is actually completely wrong especialy the world part. Just recently we had discussions here about anti-gay legislation of different countries around the world. One must only look at moslemic countries with sharia laws to see that this is wrong. Or recent examples of Nigeria, Uganda, Russia, etc etc.

Sorry but if homosexual people can be put to death or sentenced to a lifelong prison sentence that is not safety. Some people here would love to have similar laws around the world maybe but this is not safety or a christian way. Furthermore freedom of choice given to us also means everyone has the right to choose "wrong".

Lastly i know we do not look eye to eye on such matters and we have different points of view however i can assure you that in todays churches a lot of LGBTI people do not feel safe or welcome at all. In fact i am not homosexual yet i am personally affected by some of these matters especially since people seem to mix all up in regards for Intersex. I am a 3rd generation adventist and was a church member for mor than 30 years. I got my education in SDA schools and colleges in Austria, German and the states. I recently left SDA as a member because of a new pastor which got assigned to my church which was not able to grasp the difference between the titles at all. He preached similar statements as are presented inside this thread by some. All of those statements are theological wrong, morally wrong and ignore the most basics of science in those regards. 

Luckily i had my education and could prove this and can prove this easily furthermore i have more knowledge than most in those matters. So if i already felt unsafe and not welcome in my church, which i attented for more than 30 years, anymore how do you think a LGBTI person feels when coming to our church for the first time?

If i look through this thread and look at certain statements in this thread i most likely would not feel safe or welcome in any church where the people making those statements are members or to make it worse even be deacons or pastors and i am not even homosexual.

Oppression never leads to an informed decision and free choice no matter what and definitely not to God.

Regards

"Oppression never leads to an informed decision and free choice no matter what and definitely not to God." 

Exactly, but do you believe what you just said?  God gives us a choice to follow him or not to follow him.  Who has the right to take away that choice that God has given.  Here in America, some say there is no God so men make the rules and the rules of man say we have no freedom of speech.  Ellen White prophesied of this happening to our constitution.  If a man or a woman chooses to live a homosexual lifestyle I cannot tell them not do so.  I am just a man I have no authority to tell people how to live, but I can present the Bible and what God says, and this is the problem you and I have.   

I believe in a God who can heal, I believe in a creator God who can put flesh on bone. Bless the name of Jesus Christ.  When someone says to me that they were born this way or that way God cannot change them, I know that to be a lie.  

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”   Romans 1:20

When you say through scripture that homosexuality is not a problem, that people have interpreted the scriptures wrong, you are fighting with the Bible, you are struggling with Gods word going through the scriptures trying to pull out of it what you believe.  The problem is not what I believe your problem is with God.   Gods made man and women to procreate and out of that union children are born.  Homosexuality has never been a part of that.  The whole of the scripture is a love story about Jesus and his church.   

I understand full well that the church is a place sinners are to be made welcome and safe.  Is that what we are talking about.  Are homosexuals the only sinners?  When we say that gay sex is acceptable, what does that say to the man addicted to internet porn? What does that say to women living with her boyfriend? What does that say to substance abuser?  Is one sinner greater than another?  

Is God to small to heal the homosexual?  If you cannot accept the premise that homosexuality is sin, then will you answer this question?  If God created sex did He create homosexuality?  Why is it (homosexuality) not mentioned more in the Bible as a type like the virgins, the church or the bride of Christ.  

 

"Exactly, but do you believe what you just said?  God gives us a choice to follow him or not to follow him.  Who has the right to take away that choice that God has given.  Here in America, some say there is no God so men make the rules and the rules of man say we have no freedom of speech.  Ellen White prophesied of this happening to our constitution.  If a man or a woman chooses to live a homosexual lifestyle I cannot tell them not do so.  I am just a man I have no authority to tell people how to live, but I can present the Bible and what God says, and this is the problem you and I have. "

Sorry but i am unable to follow some arguments from this passage.

Why do you claim the rules of man say we have no freedom of speech?

If you think of the "hate speech" rules than i think you misunderstood the concept of missionary and telling truths. Now where in bible are we told to run around and quote a verse out of the bible and than add the statement "Shoot all gays" as example. 

You can present your view as much as you want and have freedom of speech to do so however there is a limit between having an opinion or spreading hate and fear or even calling for action against other people which is falling under the "hate speech" rules.

"I believe in a God who can heal, I believe in a creator God who can put flesh on bone. Bless the name of Jesus Christ.  When someone says to me that they were born this way or that way God cannot change them, I know that to be a lie.  "

I will ask you another way now. I was born Intersex. Now there is nothing i did or could do to preempt that i do believe in a god and i can not tell you how often i was praying to God to change me. However for some reason he did not do so.

Now do i believe he could if he wants to? Yes i do.

Did he change me? No he did not. 

So now my question to you is: Could it possible be that God does want me to be the way i am for a reason only he knows? Or do you think God just refused to change me cause my prayers where not sincere enough? Or do you think God is cruel and just wants me to suffer some more years? Or do you think God is not powerful enough to do it?

See you make it sound so easy that he could and all what a homosexual needs to do is to pray and give in for God. Actually it is not as easy apparently else i would not be here for more than 30 years and i am not "gay" but intersex.

But maybe God wants me to be here and gives me strength every day to live and spread his word beyond 3 verses...?

Not going to quote the other passages:

You are misquoting me sadly. 

What i did say was that there is a difference between being homosexual as in feeling and sexual orientation, which is not a sin, and homosexual activity, which according to 3 word by word verses is sin.

I am sorry but i do not see any reason why a homosexual should not feel safe and welcome in any of our churches. Sadly enough in most of our churches LGBTI people do not feel safe and welcome and to be in a hospital of sinners.

Furthermore i pointed out that todays understanding of homosexuality is a complete different one of the understanding in biblical times and terms. Nobody ever claimed that the ideal of Gods creation was not Adam and Eve. However as the scripture shows we are far away from an ideal world and as it is shown in scripture God helps us not only through laws but also by reaching out to us. I believe in a merciful God who often reached out to all of his children and tried to meet them where they are. Even changing laws and making compromises to help and guide us. This is also all shown in scripture. He tries to compensate our shortcomings because he loves us. I find it hard to believe that God would love everyone except homosexual people. 

And this does not even take into account what the scripture does say about transgender and intersex which is often tossed into the same subject but in reality is something completely different.

Maybe for God this issue is not such a big one as it is for us. Maybe his principal is love and compassion. Something which is not decided by gender race orientation etc.

Regards

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