Since so many people here seem shy about "complex" discussions and would love to live in a black and white world as opposed to the HD colour world we live in - I'm going to dumb this question down to it's simplest point.
Show me a verse in the Bible where it says either "women cannot be ordained" or "only men may be ordained".
it is broke
Jesus hasnt come yet
Prophets are not ordained as prophets, nor are necessarily on the church payroll, unless they can serve as prophets and church officials, at the same time. But they are always called of God, and raised up by God for a specific purpose. This is not a matter of ordination, but gifts and ministry. A woman can have the same gifts, and perform her ministry, without wearing male titles.
Deut. 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God.
"Mister", "Elder", "Pastor", "Priest", are male titles. "Deaconess", "Prophetess", "Priestess" are female titles.
Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
1 Tim. 3:1 This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Women can not be husbands, so do not qualify, biblically, for this office.
1 Tim. 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Unfortunately, there's no precedence of women trying to usurp such authority, so we can see how it was dealt with, and condemned by any prophet. No one was rallying for women Pastors in the days of the Apostles, or in Ellen White's day. They also weren't trying to baptize openly gay people. There is a lot of pushing for equality of the sexes, and "marriage equality", and so forth, and some people in the church have picked up on this, from the world.
It's better for us to follow the example from the Bible, and the founders of the Adventist church.
Very well stated. This has been presented MANY, MANY TIMES before.
Ezra Moore, really now my brother, mock has nothing to do with it all, this is past ridiculous! the tones are unbecoming, hilarious, and even agitated at times! shame...
Stop for a few minutes read through all the responses here and trust me my friend, if you don't laugh you'll definitely cry! I do not have time to mock, I'm just overwhelmed and amazed how we give so much time to the non-essentials causing persons to unconsciously turn their eyes from what God has commissioned us to do, and that is to "Go make disciples, preach, teach to observe all things I have commanded you, baptising..."
Seriously; stop for a few minutes and listen to the tones of this discussion and tell me honestly if persons here are not too overly emotional with something that does not contribute one way or the other to your soul salvation?!
May the peace of God rest, remain, and abide with you all!
The challenge is that in order to complete that commission in the SDA church, you have to be ordained.
I have an idea, lets ban all ordaining by human hands... This way we won't have anything to disagree on in this subject or keep having these discussions that brings us down and may dishearten a believer. I say that because I know most of us knows about ordained pastors who don't have no business being ordained. Then we have theses pastors ordaining other pastors. We all know we can't get anything right, so what makes us think we can ordain people correctly? It's flawed, why, because we are sinful humans, fifthly rags... Lets leave the ordaining to the Holy Spirit!!
The Holy Spirit ordains Men & Women to be Pastors..
EGW: " All who desire an opportunity for true ministry, and who will give themselves unreservedly to God, will find in the canvassing work opportunities to speak upon many things pertaining to the future, immortal life. The experience thus gained will be of the greatest value to those who are fitting themselves for the ministry. It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God." 6T p.322
Men & Women are prepared by the Holy Spirit to become Pastors... It's not just Men, or Men who decide who can become a Pastor or not.. no human can decided that, only the Holy Spirit. SOP goes on and talk about these Men & Women that are or will be Pastors.
EGW: "As they cherish the thought that Christ is their Companion, a holy awe, a sacred joy, will be felt by them amid all their trying experiences and all their tests. They will learn how to pray as they work. They will be educated in patience, kindness, affability, and helpfulness. They will practice true Christian courtesy, bearing in mind that Christ, their Companion, cannot approve of harsh, unkind words or feelings. Their words will be purified. The power of speech will be regarded as a precious talent, lent them to do a high and holy work. The human agent will learn how to represent the divine Companion with whom he is associated. To that unseen Holy One he will show respect and reverence because he is wearing His yoke and is learning His pure, holy ways. Those who have faith in this divine Attendant will develop. They will be gifted with power to clothe the message of truth with a sacred beauty." 6T p.322
EGW: "If women do the work that is not the most agreeable to many of those who labor in word and doctrine, and if their works testify that they are accomplishing a work that has been manifestly neglected, should not such labor be looked upon as being as rich in results as the work of the ordained ministers? Should it not command the hire of the laborer? ... This question is not for men to settle. The Lord has settled it. You are to do your duty to the women who labor in the gospel, whose work testifies that they are essential to carrying the truth into families. Their work is just the work that must be done, and should be encouraged. In many respects a woman can impart knowledge to her sisters that a man cannot. The cause would suffer great loss without this kind of labor by women. Again and again the Lord has shown me that women teachers are just as greatly needed to do the work to which He has appointed them as are men.—Manuscript 142, 1903.
I would like to ask, who is truly ordained?
A Man who is ordained by human hands, but has some baby mama's in the praise team,living worldly and doesn't have the full Character of Jesus.... or a Woman who hasn't been ordained by human hands, but has Jesus' Character in full and who has been called by GOD to do the work that so called ordained pastors has neglected. Ofcourse it's the woman who is truly the ordained Pastor of GOD.
So, the people for WOPE, don't feel bad about not being ordained by human hands and go on a crusade to make it happen, because those hands are fifthly... Let GOD do the ordaining. Lets not make this a dividing issue. Those against WOPE, don't be so enthusiastic by men ordaining other men, because that ordaining means nothing. Only ordaining we should look for is from the HOLY Spirit!! The way you can tell them apart is by the fruits of he Holy Spirit!!
WOW!!!! I have posted the first quote here at AO, but the last one is compelling! THANK YOU!
Sarah: "WOW!!!! I have posted the first quote here at AO, but the last one is compelling! THANK YOU!"
Hi Sarah, Sometimes I get mixed up on who is responding to who... Is that Thank you for me or someone else?
THANK YOU, Reasoning! =)
Your welcome... =)
It's clear that ordination, although done by human hands, is about God's work and not man's. A complete ban on ordination by human hands simply because of an unbiblical call by women to be ordained as well would be tantamount to throwing the baby with the bathwater. And you would have another problem: What to do with Paul's instructions to Timothy and Titus. Paul instructed timothy and Titus to ordain elders (men) in the cities they were to visit. How would you teach obedience in the church if you were to overturn God's instructions on ordination? How else would you take care of the flock if there were no elders (or worse, masqueraders usurping men's God-given authority)?
Let's cut to the chase: Let pro-WOPE posters on AO help LessthanakingDavid with a verse (even one) that supports WOPE. Those of us against WOPE have not helped him at all because we have presented the exact opposite - numerous verses from the Bible that demonstrate a male priesthood at home and in the church, and the example set by Christ and the apostles, specifically Paul, to ordain elders (men) in every city.