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Since so many people here seem shy about "complex" discussions and would love to live in a black and white world as opposed to the HD colour world we live in - I'm going to dumb this question down to it's simplest point.

Show me a verse in the Bible where it says either "women cannot be ordained" or "only men may be ordained".

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   Hi Benicio,


 Benicio: "If a women cannot be an ordained minister, she cannot be one of the 144.000. She cannot! Do you see how deep this can go."

    Benicio, Brother, you bring up a good point, does anyone believe the 144,000 is just men? I don't believe when we're told to strive to be part of the 144,000, that it's just for men to strive for it. I thought men, women, and children was going to make up that number. Good point Bro.!!


The 144,000 are all ordained ministers?

There where ordained women ministers in Ellen White's day, and she knew of them, and it was never brought up?  I'm not talking about Bible workers, or deaconesses, but the official Pastor of a church a woman, and no one ever said anything?  And she never got a letter from Ellen White, or it was never mentioned in any of her writings?

To WOPE proponents,

Please read this week's lesson and see why it is extremely important not to amend what Christ has ordained (ordinances). The issues are loyalty, obedience and humility as evidences of what Christ has already done in our lives. There was discussion here on whether ordination is about what humans do by laying on of hands, versus what the Holy Spirit does in the heart of a consecrated minister of the gospel, in this case a pastor or an elder. (Alexander and Sarah Sulton might even want to follow up the discussion on who between men and women should wash the other's feet.)



The nature of baptism helps us to understand the difference between an      ordinance and a sacrament. Baptism, according to those who see it as a      sacrament, is the means that brings about the transformation in a person      from spiritual death to life. In this understanding, the age of the person      doesn’t matter, because it’s all a supernatural event anyway. On the other      hand, baptism as an ordinance is an indication or symbol of an internal      change (a supernatural event) that has already occurred in the life of the      believer by way of his or her experience with Jesus. In this view,      candidates for baptism ought to have already experienced faith in Christ;      therefore, the question of who is baptized, and when, becomes very      important.

If you have been baptized, think back upon the      experience. When you understand what it means, why (in a sense) do we need      to be 'baptized' every day? How can this be accomplished?

TUESDAY November 27

The Ordinance of Humility

It’s hard to imagine the pain that must have been going on in the heart      of Jesus as He - about to face the Cross, the greatest humiliation      possible - saw the jealousy and infighting among His own disciples over who      would be the greatest in His kingdom.

Read Luke 22:24-27 (see        also Matt. 18:1, 20:21). What crucial truth had the disciples still      not learned?

Our world is so twisted and perverted by sin that we have it all      backward, however 'rational' and 'sensible' backward may seem. Who in      their right mind would rather be the one serving than the one served? Is      not the whole point of life to get ahead, to become wealthy, and to be      someone who is waited on and attended to by others rather than being the      ones who serve? It’s no wonder, then, that at the Last Supper, Jesus      washed the disciples’ feet. No words He would have said could have      conveyed the truth of what real greatness is in the eyes of God more      forcefully than His washing the feet of those who should have been kissing      His.

What does John 13:1-17      teach us about foot-washing as a part of the communion service?

So much amazing truth rings out through these verses. In verse 3 it says      that Jesus knew that the Father had given “all things into His hands”.      What happens next? Yes, Jesus, knowing full well that “He had come from      God and was going to God” (NKJV), rose from the meal and started      washing the disciples’ feet (vs. 5). Even without fully knowing      whom Jesus really was, they must have been astonished. How could they have      failed to see the lesson there?

Before claiming for ourselves all that Christ has done for us, how      important it is to come to the Lord’s Supper with a sense of our own      humbleness and lowliness and need of divine grace.

Whose feet might it do you some immense spiritual      good to wash?

There are just as many if not more who disagree from Scripture....we disagree even from EGW (Teresa has posted on this clearly) that the interpretation given by you and others is faulty and in error.  But if that is what you choose to believe, that is you.  You will have the choice not to attend a church where there is a female ordained pastor, but do not attempt to "condemn" those who are convicted differently from following their convictions by the Holy Spirit, based on Scripture. 

Lessthanaking David


There are actually many such texts.  However, you are asking the wrong question.  The more important question is:

"Where in the Bible is there a text commanding, authourizing or giving permission for God's church to ordain women?"


To engage in a practice for which there is no biblical command or authorization is placing one's self equal with God.  Satan was thrown out of heaven for this.  By what line of reasoning will God now save those who are doing thw same things."


Playing games with God is not smart.  God will always win.


Maranatha :)


Spiritually, there is no difference between men and women, as there is neither male nor female, bond or free as Paul said. There are only two references that have been used to make women keep silent and hold them back from spiritual leadership.

The audio tape link below and the pasted introduction are very informative about this issue from Spirit and Truth International.

Introduction: "For almost 2 millennia, the voice of women has been stifled in the Church. Interestingly, this has been in large part due to just two references in the New Testament: 1 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 35. Something about these three verses, however, is that the way they have been translated and handled in the Church is in glaring contradiction to the flow and feel of the rest of the New Testament about women. Right from the start of the Christian Church on the Day of Pentecost, both men and women received holy spirit (Acts 2:17, 18). Women served in the Church and were speaking up in the meetings. There were simple churches in their homes, and there is much evidence that they taught the Word of God.

While 1 Timothy 2:12 has been mistranslated and misunderstood, there are a growing number of scholars who have concluded that 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 35 were added to the Bible by an early scribe, and that it was not part of Paul’s original letter to the Corinthians. In this teaching, John Schoenheit goes through some of the reasons many scholars now conclude that these verses were added to the text, and also speaks about how we should understand and apply them if they were part of the original text."

Audio link:


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