Adventist Online

How long will the little time of trouble last?

Views: 1776

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

1335 days. Then the saints will be delivered as Daniel will also rise to his inheritance.

Shalom,
Will Anderson

What are you talking about?

Daniel chapter 12

Matthew 24

Luke 21

Mark 13

Daniel is told of a great time of trouble such as never was, no neither shall there ever be...

Yahshua tells of a great time of trouble immediately before His coming that is the greatest ever.

Daniel was given a prophetic timeline which the pioneers rightly thought ended at the second coming as Daniel was to raise from the dead to receive his inheritance.

Within Daniels timeline the saints are given into the power of the little horn for three and a half years. In Revelation a similar experience is said to happen to the saints for 1260 days and also it is described as 42 months.

The troublesome times will be intense and I do know that Yahweh will take care of those who follow Him during these three and a half years plus 45 days.

He may even provide "manna" if needed. He certainly will save some from a blazing furnace if they do not bow to the image or worhsip the beast. He will save to the uttermost.

Shalom,

Will Anderson

Hi,

If your referring the Advent movement, the conclusion was Christ was coming because of the interpretation of time first.  They did not interpret the time in lieu of His second coming.  You see the difference? 

Let me explain.  They believed that Christ was coming in 1844 because of Dan 8:14 and Dan 12:12.  However, they did not reason that since Christ is coming, this must mean Dan 8:14 and Dan 12:!2 terminates at His coming.  Very important fact.  The chronology is:

  1. interpret the time
  2. determine the nature of the event at that time. 

We know they had the time right (1844) but the nature of the event (Christ second coming) was incorrect. (See Great Controversy).  The prophet says at this point that time (prophetic time) is no more (terminates in 1844).

God bless,

Jay

On contrary Jay. I think they had the event correct but their timing was off.

This is evidenced by the fact that Daniel has not yet risen to his inheritance some 167 years after the supposed termination of the 1335 days.

Shalom,
Will

Hi Will,

I respect your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it.  But I can only go by historical facts, the bible, and the SOP.  You think they had the event correct but the timing was off.  The SOP says otherwise.

Like the first disciples, William Miller and his associates did not, themselves, fully comprehend the import of the message which they bore. Errors that had been long established in the church prevented them from arriving at a correct interpretation of an important point in the prophecy. Therefore, though they proclaimed the message which God had committed to them to be given to the world, yet through a misapprehension of its meaning they suffered disappointment. {GC 351.2}

In explaining Daniel 8:14, “Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed,” Miller, as has been stated, adopted the generally received view that the earth is the sanctuary, and he believed that the cleansing of the sanctuary represented the purification of the earth by fire at the coming of the Lord. When, therefore, he found that the close of the 2300 days was definitely foretold, he concluded that this revealed the time of the second advent. His error resulted from accepting the popular view as to what constitutes the sanctuary. {GC 352.1}

Those who proclaimed this warning gave the right message at the right time. But as the early disciples declared, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand,“ based on the prophecy of Daniel 9, while they failed to perceive that the death of the Messiah was foretold in the same scripture, so Miller and his associates preached the message based on Daniel 8:14 and Revelation 14:7, and failed to see that there were still other messages brought to view in Revelation 14, which were also to be given before the advent of the Lord. As the disciples were mistaken in regard to the kingdom to be set up at the end of the seventy weeks, so Adventists were mistaken in regard to the event to take place at the expiration of the 2300 days. In both cases there was an acceptance of, or rather an adherence to, popular errors that blinded the mind to the truth. Both classes fulfilled the will of God in delivering the message which He desired to be given, and both, through their own misapprehension of their message, suffered disappointment. {GC 352.3}

Events at the Close of Probation

144,000 vs. The Great Multitude

BEFORE THE CLOSE OF PROBATION

1) Before the close of probation, what will God's people be doing? And what will they be filled with?
"And at the commencement of the time of trouble, we were filled with the Holy Ghost as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully." - Early Writings, p. 33.
"'The commencement of that time of trouble,' here mentioned does not refer to the time when the plagues shall begin to be poured out, but to a short period just before they are poured out, while Christ is in the sanctuary ... At that time the 'latter rain,' or refreshing from the presence of the Lord, will come, to give power to the loud voice of the third angel, and prepare the saints to stand in the period when the seven last plagues shall be poured out." - Early Writings, p. 85.
This pouring forth of the Holy Spirit upon God's true people is called the latter rain, as was the early rain that was poured forth during the time of Pentecost.

2) What will be the result of this proclamation of the true Sabbath?
"I saw that God had children who do not see and keep the Sabbath. They have not rejected the light upon it ... And at this time God's chosen all saw clearly that we had the truth, and they came out and endured the persecution with us." - Early Writings, p. 33.
"The light that was shed upon the waiting ones penetrated everywhere, and those in the churches who had any light, who had not heard and rejected the three messages, obeyed the call and left the fallen churches ... Some chose life and took their stand with those who were looking for their Lord and keeping all His commandments." - Early Writings, p. 278.
"God has His agents, even among the rulers ... When Satan works through his agents, propositions are made, that, if carried out, would impede the work of God and produce great evil. The good angels move upon these agents of God to oppose such propositions with strong reasons ... Thus the work will go on until the third message has done its work, and at the loud cry of the third angel, these agents will have an opportunity to receive the truth, and some of them will be converted, and endure with the saints through the time of trouble." Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 203.
"All who are honest will leave the fallen churches, and take their stand with the remnant." Early Writings, p. 261.
This proclamation of the Sabbath truth, as a result of the latter rain, is called the loud cry.

3) For those who heed the loud cry, what change must take place in their lives?
"But now time is almost finished, and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months. They will also have much to unlearn and much to learn again." - Early Writings, p. 67.

4) What will all the saints, including the ones called out of their fallen churches, still be doing?
"God was in the work, and every saint, fearless of consequences, followed the convictions of his own conscience and united with those who were keeping all the commandments of God; and with power they sounded abroad the third message." - Early Writings, p. 278.

5) But will the saints have to endure against human authorities?
"Those who live during the last days of this earth's history will know what it means to be persecuted for the truth's sake. In the courts injustice will prevail. The judges will refuse to listen to the reasons of those who are loyal to the commandments of God, because they know that arguments in favor of the fourth commandment are unanswerable. They will say, "We have a law, and by our law he ought to die." God's law is nothing to them. "Our law" with them is supreme. Those who respect this human law will be favored, but those who will not bow to the idol sabbath will have no favors shown them." Signs of the Times, May 26, 1898.

6) What will be the consequences of this obedience to God's commandments?
"Conscientious obedience to the word of God will be treated as rebellion. Blinded by Satan, the parent will exercise harshness and severity toward the believing child; the master or mistress will oppress the commandment-keeping servant. Affection will be alienated; children will be disinherited and driven from home ... As the defenders of truth refuse to honor the Sunday-sabbath, some of them will be thrust into prison, some will be exiled, some will be treated as slaves. To human wisdom all this now seems impossible; but as the restraining Spirit of God shall be withdrawn from men, and they shall be under the control of Satan, who hates the divine precepts, there will be strange developments. The heart can be very cruel when God's fear and love are removed." - Great Controversy, p. 608.
"The two armies will stand distinct and separate, and this distinction will be so marked that many who shall be convinced of the truth will come on the side of God's commandment-keeping people. When this grand work is to take place in the battle, prior to the last closing conflict, many will be imprisoned, many will flee for their lives from cities and towns, and many will be martyrs for Christ's sake in standing in defense of the truth."
"Will we obey the commandments of men or will we obey the commandments of God? ... The best thing for us is to come into close connection with God, and, if He would have us be martyrs for the truth's sake, it may be the means of bringing many more into the truth." - Selected Messages, vol. 3, pp. 397,420.

7) During this time, how is Jesus pleading for His chosen special people in the heavenly sanctuary? What is the result?
"I saw four angels who had a work to do on the earth, and were on their way to accomplish it. Jesus was clothed with priestly garments. He gazed in pity on the remnant, then raised His hands, and with a voice of deep pity cried, "My blood, Father, My blood, My blood, My blood!" Then I saw an exceeding bright light come from God, who sat upon the great white throne, and was shed all about Jesus. Then I saw an angel with a commission from Jesus, swiftly flying to the four angels who had a work to do on the earth, and waving something up and down in his hand, and crying with a loud voice, 'Hold! Hold! Hold! Hold! until the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads.'" - Early Writings, p. 38.

8) What is keeping Jesus from leaving the most holy place of the sanctuary?
"Then I saw that Jesus would not leave the most holy place until every case was decided either for salvation or destruction." - Early Writings, p. 36.

DURING THE CLOSE OF PROBATION

9) When does probation close?
"Every case had been decided for life or death. While Jesus had been ministering in the sanctuary, the judgment had been going on for the righteous dead, and then for the righteous living. Christ had received His kingdom, having made the atonement for His people and blotted out their sins. The subjects of the kingdom were made up. The marriage of the Lamb was consummated. And the kingdom, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, was given to Jesus and the heirs of salvation, and Jesus was to reign as King of kings and Lord of lords. Early Writings, p. 280.
Note that the term probation is the time given to every individual on earth to confess and repent of their sins and to be converted into the present truth. Probation will close, as above, when every person's case has been decided for life or death. In other words, when everyone will have firmly decided which path they will choose to follow for the remainder of their lives, whether a path of righteousness or a path of evil.

10) What happens in the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary when probation closes?
"Then I saw Jesus, who had been ministering before the ark containing the ten commandments, throw down the censer. He raised His hands, and with a loud voice said, 'It is done.'" - Early Writings, p. 279.
When Jesus' work as the high priest of Heaven finishes, when the last living person's case has been examined, then Jesus will throw down the censer and declare His priestly work: "It is done."

11) Why did Jesus throw down the censer?
"An angel with a writer's inkhorn by his side returned from the earth and reported to Jesus that his work was done, and the saints were numbered and sealed." - Early Writings, p. 279.
When the angel, having the seal of the living God (see Revelation 7:2), tells Jesus that he has sealed the special 144,000 people with the seal of God, then Jesus' kingdom of righteous people will have been made up, especially when the last group of people to be saved is His special 144,000 chosen.

12) What becomes of the people on earth when every case has been decided?
"And all the angelic host laid off their crowns as Jesus made the solemn declaration, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." - Early Writings, p. 279.
After probation has closed, the characters of the people on earth will not change, but stay the same, whether being good continually, or whether being evil continually.

13) Will we know when probation closes, or when every case has been decided?
"So when the irrevocable decision of the sanctuary has been pronounced and the destiny of the world has been forever fixed, the inhabitants of the earth will know it not." - Great Controversy, p. 615.

AFTER THE CLOSE OF PROBATION

14) What happens soon after probation closes?
"As Jesus moved out of the most holy place ... a cloud of darkness covered the inhabitants of the earth. There was then no mediator between guilty man and an offended God. While Jesus had been standing between God and guilty man, a restraint was upon the people; but when He stepped out from between man and the Father, the restraint was removed ... there is nothing to stay the wrath of God" - Early Writings, p. 280.
"When our High Priest has finished His work in the sanctuary, He will stand up, put on the garments of vengeance, and then the seven last plagues will be poured out." - Early Writings, p. 36.
After probation closes; after the 144,000 are sealed (see Revelation 7:3,4), the preaching of the gospel will be no more, since all the wicked inhabitants will no longer change their character, but stay on their evil courses, then will the 7 last plagues fall upon the earth. Therefore, as some have claimed, the 144,000 will NOT give a loud cry to bring in a great multitude (which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues - Revelation 7:9), but rather, the LIVING sealed servants of God will bring in other sealed-to-be people from the fallen churches, until the number 144,000 have been made.
Remember that the sealing covers all of the loud cry period also. Where would a great multitude come from if the loud cry consisted of preaching the three angels' message (Sabbath message) and all that accepted it will of course be sealed, as the Sabbath is the seal of God? Where would they come from if all who keep it are sealed, and all sealed are the 144,000, as only the 144,000 are sealed with the Sabbath message? For those who think the 144,000 will bring in a great multitude during the loud cry, ask yourself the question: "If the sealed 144,000 are made before the loud cry, why would Jesus wait for more multitudes of unsealed people to be saved?"
(Since He already has His special 144,000 chosen, and the restraint is for until the servants are sealed with the seal of God - see Revelation 7:3.). It just wouldn't make sense. As shown before, right when the 144,000th person is sealed, then the spreading of the gospel will be over, which means no more gathering of people, or in other words, a great multitude.

15) What event on earth will happen as a result of the falling plagues? What will this time period be called?
"These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous; they thought that we had brought the judgments of God upon them, and that if they could rid the earth of us, the plagues would then be stayed. A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob's trouble." - Early Writings, p. 36.

16) To explain the great multitude issue more specifically, when probation closes, what groups of people will be on earth?
"The Sabbath will be the great test of loyalty, for it is the point of truth especially controverted. When the final test shall be brought to bear upon men, then the line of distinction will be drawn between those who serve God and those who serve Him not. While the observance of the false sabbath in compliance with the law of the state, contrary to the fourth commandment, will be an avowal of allegiance to a power that is in opposition to God, the keeping of the true Sabbath, in obedience to God's law, is an evidence of loyalty to the Creator. While one class, by accepting the sign of submission to earthly powers, receive the mark of the beast, the other choosing the token of allegiance to divine authority, receive the seal of God." - Great Controversy, p. 605.
"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God." Revelation 14:9,10.
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Revelation 14:12.
Ultimately, there can only be two classes of people when probation closes - the wicked who have the mark of the beast, and the righteous who have the seal of God. There cannot be a group who neither have the mark of the beast, nor the seal of God, for there is no other group mentioned. Remember that ALL people on earth will be tested on the Sabbath truth. Therefore, a great multitude will not exist during the time of Jacob's trouble, and endure the 7 last plagues. All saved during the loud cry will be part of the 144,000, as they will be sealed with the Sabbath message.
No other people could be counted, as there will be no other message but this, and this is the sealing message, and only the 144,000 are sealed. Also, earlier we saw that the result of the loud cry will draw people out of the fallen churches, and these people will join the sealed servants of God, and endure with them the persecutions through the time of trouble. Therefore, these people must already be sealed with the seal of God after probation has closed.
If there are any other people that are saved, they will not be sealed with the Sabbath message since they did not get a chance to hear it, nor will they be alive to see Jesus coming from the small black cloud in the east, and turning into clouds of glory (See Early Writings, p. 15). They would have to go down to the grave (meaning death) unsealed with the three angels' message BEFORE the loud cry reaches every person, nation and tongue, but saved having lived up to all they knew. Therefore these people, who have not heard the Sabbath truth, will be part of the great multitude.
"Many have gone into their graves in full faith that Sunday was the Sabbath ... They have looked upon Sunday as the Sabbath, the sanctified day of rest, when there is not a particle of Scriptural evidence to justify the claim of this spurious Sabbath ... In this day He has sent special light. The third angel is represented as flying in the midst of heaven, heralding to the inhabitants of the world the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ ... It is to be proclaimed by the human agent, and it becomes every one who hears to be attentive to the heaven-sent message, and in no case to be careless, to refuse to hear or receive it; for it is a message from God to man.
If we are rational beings, and the light has come to us, we shall be held accountable for it. But those who have not had the light which is now shining upon the people of God concerning the Sabbath question, will not be accountable for the light; for it has never been brought before them, and they have died without condemnation." - Review and Herald, April 25, 1893.
"Those who died before the light was given upon the law of God and the claims of the fourth commandment were not guilty of the sin of violating the seventh-day Sabbath. The wisdom and mercy of God in dispensing light and knowledge at the proper time, as the people need it, is unsearchable.
"We are accountable only for the light that shines upon us. The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus are testing us." - Testimonies for the Church, vol. 2, p. 693.

17) How do we know that a great multitude will not exist during the 7 last plagues?
"Then there was a mighty earthquake. The graves opened, and the dead came up clothed with immortality. The 144,000 shouted, 'Alleluia!'" - Early Writings, p. 16.
At this point in time, Ellen White delineates the events at the coming of Christ. The special resurrection has already taken place (see Daniel 12:2, Revelation 1:7 and Mark 14:62) and Jesus has come back the second time, with his silver trumpet blowing to raise the dead of all ages. She says, "The 144,000 shouted Alleluia!" Why didn't anyone else say anything about the resurrection? If there were more than 144,000, would she not have said, "The 144,000 and a great multitude shouted Alleluia!?" Of course, but there was no one else that was saved that were alive to see Jesus resurrect the dead multitudes, except the 144,000.

18) How many righteous saints were alive to hear God speak from Heaven?
"Soon we heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus' coming. The living saints, 144,000 in number, knew and understood the voice" - Early Writings, p. 15.
"Then ALL the saints cried out with anguish of spirit, and were delivered by the voice of God. The 144,000 triumphed." - Early Writings, p. 36.
It is clear that all LIVING saints that triumphs during this time consists only of the 144,000. Why did no one else triumph, or why was no one else delivered by the voice of God? As before, there were only 144,000 saved that were alive when God spoke from Heaven.

MORE ON THE GREAT MULTITUDE

19) In Revelation 7, after John hears the 144,000 people from the spiritual tribes of Israel being sealed, what was the next scene of events before him?
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude." Revelation 7:9, first part.

20) What was John's comment about the great multitude that was before his sight?
"Which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands." Verse 9, last part.
Here John knows the status of the great multitude, for he considers them to have come from all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues.

21) After John sees the great multitude worshipping God, what did one of the elders then ask him?
"And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?" Verse 13.

22) What was John's answer to the elder's question?
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest." Verse 14, first part.
If the elder was pointing to John the great multitude, John would have answered that they came from all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, as he knew where they came from in verse 9. But to the elder's question, John answered "thou knowest," meaning that he did not know where this group of people came from. If John was considering the great multitude again, his answer would seem devoid of point. But John must have now seen another different group of people redeemed before the throne other than the great multitude. John was not familiar with this new group he was now seeing, for they must have been so different compared to the great multitude. No company is brought to view to which special allusion would more naturally be made than to the company spoken of in the first part of the chapter, the 144,000.

23) What was the elder's answer to his own question?
"And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them." Verses 14,15.
It appears that one of the special characteristics of the 144,000, that no other redeemed will have, is that they have the privilege of serving God in His temple day and night, and in doing so, it is especially emphasized that God will dwell among them.

24) How do we know that the great multitude will NOT serve God in His temple?
"Mount Zion was just before us, and on the mount was a glorious temple ... And as we were about to enter the holy temple, Jesus raised His lovely voice and said, "Only the 144,000 enter this place," and we shouted, "Alleluia."" - Early Writings, p. 18.
If only the 144,000 are allowed in the temple of God, then the great multitude will not have the right to enter in it. Therefore, the great multitude would not be able to serve God in the temple day and night. And with that being said, the great multitude are not the ones considered with those who "came out of great tribulation."

25) What is emphasized about Mount Zion?
"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads." Revelation 14:1.
The great multitude is not mentioned to be with Jesus on Mount Zion, except only the special 144,000, who only have the seal of God, or Father's name, on their foreheads.

SPIRIT OF PROPHECY CONCERNING THE 144,000

Great Controversy, p. 648
Upon the crystal sea before the throne, that sea of glass as it were mingled with fire, - so resplendent is it with the glory of God, - are gathered the company that have "gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name." With the Lamb upon Mount Zion, "having the harps of God," they stand, the hundred and forty and four thousand that were redeemed from among men; and there is heard, as the sound of many waters, and as the sound of a great thunder, "the voice of harpers harping with their harps." And they sing "a new song" before the throne, a song which no man can learn save the hundred and forty and four thousand.
It is the song of Moses and the Lamb - a song of deliverance. None but the hundred and forty-four thousand can learn that song; for it is the song of their experience - an experience such as no other company have ever had. "These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth." These, having been translated from the earth, from among the living, are counted as "the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb." Revelation 15:2, 3; 14:1-5. "These are they which came out of great tribulation;" they have passed through the time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation; they have endured the anguish of the time of Jacob's trouble; they have stood without an intercessor through the final outpouring of God's judgments. But they have been delivered, for they have "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." "In their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault" before God. "Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them." They have seen the earth wasted with famine and pestilence, the sun having power to scorch men with great heat, and they themselves have endured suffering, hunger, and thirst. But "they shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes." Revelation 7:14-17.

Signs of the Times, September 24, 1896
On what foundation are you building? This question comes home to us all. We are living amid the perils of the last days. The law of God is almost universally disregarded. Satan is not idle; he walks about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may turn from the right way. And he does not always appear as a lion; he has the power to come as a lamb, and then his voice is soft and low. But shall we allow him to control our hearts? Under his direction, shall we build upon a foundation that will not stand the storm? We can not afford to do this. Shall we not rather strive to be among that number of whom John writes, "Here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus"?
Just before his crucifixion Christ prayed for his followers, "Sanctify them through thy truth; thy word is truth." The word of God has a sanctifying power upon all who truly believe and do it. Shall we not take this word into our lives, and thus build upon the true foundation a character that will gain for us an eternal weight of glory? John saw a company standing round the throne of God. "And one of the elders answered," he writes, "saying, . . . What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest.
And he said unto me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple; and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters; and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes." To be among that number is the happy privilege of all who will render willing obedience to the words of Christ.

Thoughts From the Mount of Blessing, p. 31
Through trials and persecution, the glory - character - of God is revealed in His chosen ones. The church of God, hated and persecuted by the world, are educated and disciplined in the school of Christ. They walk in narrow paths on earth; they are purified in the furnace of affliction. They follow Christ through sore conflicts; they endure self-denial and experience bitter disappointments; but their painful experience teaches them the guilt and woe of sin, and they look upon it with abhorrence. Being partakers of Christ's sufferings, they are destined to be partakers of His glory.
In holy vision the prophet saw the triumph of the people of God. He says, "I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory, . . . stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvelous are Thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are Thy ways, Thou King of saints." "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them." Revelation 15:2, 3; 7:14, 15.

Early Writings, p. 19
This temple was supported by seven pillars, all of transparent gold, set with pearls most glorious. The wonderful things I there saw I cannot describe. Oh, that I could talk in the language of Canaan, then could I tell a little of the glory of the better world. I saw there tables of stone in which the names of the 144,000 were engraved in letters of gold. After we beheld the glory of the temple, we went out, and Jesus left us and went to the city. Soon we heard His lovely voice again, saying, "Come, My people, you have come out of great tribulation, and done My will; suffered for Me; come in to supper, for I will gird Myself, and serve you.

Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p. 215
The most exalted of the redeemed host that stand before the throne of God and the Lamb, clad in white, know the conflict of overcoming, for they have come up through great tribulation. Those who have yielded to circumstances rather than engage in this conflict will not know how to stand in that day when anguish will be upon every soul, when, though Noah, Job, and Daniel were in the land, they could save neither son nor daughter, for everyone must deliver his soul by his own righteousness.

Story of Jesus, p. 186
God's holy law will be honored by all beneath the sun. Those who have proved themselves true to God by keeping His commandments, shall dwell with Him.
"In their mouth was found no guile." "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple." Revelation 14:5; 7:14, 15.

Note: This study does not attempt to explain every detail about the 144,000 and the great multitude, but rather their specific involvement around the close of probation.

Were is this from?

Peace 

 

 Hey brother Richard, prince Leo posted this in 2013... Not sure he's still here.. His post has some truth, but the overall message trying to be conveyed is wrong.

 His overall message is the 144,000 will be the only living righteous saints alive when Jesus comes in the clouds when all eyes can see Him. Every time the 144,000 is discussed this seems to the view of many 7th Day Adventist. 

 The other view, which when discussed gets labeled a Shepherd rods teaching because that's what they teach... but it's in the Bible and SOP in the writings of EGW teaches too.

 That view is, the 144,000 and the great multitude that is gathered during the Loud Cry will be alive when Jesus comes. This view is taught by prominent 7th Day Adventist pastors like Doug Batchelor, Steve Wholberg, and Taylor Bunch back in 1927 & 1950 taught the same thing.

 

 Prince Leo wrote: "For those who think the 144,000 will bring in a great multitude during the loud cry, ask yourself the question: "If the sealed 144,000 are made before the loud cry, why would Jesus wait for more multitudes of unsealed people to be saved?"

 

 

 Because He's a loving Saviour, He has His people (Great multitude) in the fallen Churchs and the world Leo. 

THE 144,000
THEIR TRIUMPHS AND REWARD
STUDIES IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION
NUMBER TWENTY–ONE
TAYLOR G. BUNCH --- Sign of the times May 3, 1927

"THE GREAT OUTPOURING
 "The early rain was but a local shower compared with the latter rain which is poured out on all flesh to ripen the gospel grain for the final harvest. The reaping message is to go to “every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.” (See Revelation 14:6-14) As twelve men were sealed for leadership by the Spirit in the beginning of the gospel proclamation under the early rain, twelve groups of men, of 12,000 each, will be sealed by the Spirit for Leadership in giving the Loud cry during the latter rain. As the 144,000 reach the standard of perfection of character corresponding to their perfection of faith, “the faith which was once delivered unto the saints,” they are sealed for the kingdom, and go forth to give the loud cry that calls God’s people out of spiritual Babylon and completes the gospel harvest. (Revelation 18:1-5.)"

23 years later he wrote,

 Taylor Bunch wrote (Signs of the time 1950): "Likewise just before the "latter rain" of spiritual power which brings the final gospel harvest to maturity, the first-fruits sheaf must pass through a similar sifting, shaking, and purifying process to qualify this group for their special mission. The 144,000 constitute a selected company who are brought to perfection or maturity through a special experience, and who therefore became "the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb." That they are purified by a shaking or sifting experience is evident from the following texts: Ezekiel 20:35-38; Amos 9:9,10; Revelation 3:10-12, 4-16. The Laodicean message produces a shaking which is followed by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit "on all flesh" and the gathering in of the great harvest.
The 144,000 are said to be "without fault" or "without blemish," which is the language used in describing all first fruits. They must be the "first" in both time and quality, the "best" and "chief" fruits of the field or vineyard. The first fruits have been defined as "the fruits or product first matured and collected in any season." "Matured" is from the Latin maturus, meaning "ripe, of full age, perfected by time or natural growth, brought to perfection, completed, prepared, ready." The 144,000 are the first to be brought to perfection of character in the gospel harvest of the last generation. They reach mature spiritual growth and are sealed and given the Holy Spirit in "latter rain" showers, the purpose of which is to call the innumerable company of God's people out of spiritual Babylon before God's wrath is pouredout upon the rejectors of His grace in the seven last plagues."

 Although Uriah Smith had some things wrong in regards to the 144,000, for example, he believed the 144,000 included some of pioneers that died, and only adult males were one of the 144,000.. However, he did understand that it'll be more than just 144,000 righteous saints to be alive when Jesus comes in the clouds. 

Uriah Smith wrote: "Will there, then, be only 144,000 saved from among the living when the Lord appears? May not this number be so far representative as to include many others? There seems to be quite a plausible supposition that this latter may be the case; that is, that the 144,000 may include only the adult males connected with the great Advent movement while the women and children associated in the same movement would be so many additional ones to be saved from among the living in that day. The plausibility of this idea lies in the fact that the Hebrews were so numbered when delivered from Egyptian bondage which was a figure of the deliverance of the remnant of the true Israel from the Egypt of this world at the coming of the Lord. Some three millions, in all, came out of Egypt, yet there were numbered only those who were able to go forth to war, from twenty years old and upward, amounting in all to 603,550. Num.1:2,3,46. This would be about one to five of the whole multitude, as is computed by Dr. Clarke, on Ex.12:37, where the number of fighting men is given as only about 600,00. If the enumeration of Rev.7:4 is founded on the same basis (of which, of course, there is no positive proof), it would give the number to be translated probably over seven hundred thousand, instead of only one hundred and forty-four thousand"

 Those who teach only 144,000 righteous saints will be alive when Jesus comes in the clouds is teaching falsehoods. The 144,000 will most definitely be alive, but the great multitude to be gathered during Loud Cry are alive too, they go through the last plagues too. 

 

 We as 7th Day Adventist look forward to that great ingathering to take place during the Loud Cry, when a great multitude of souls will come out of the fallen Churchs and the world.  If there is someone teaching only 144,000 will be alive when Jesus comes, then that means most of the great multitude that comes into GOD'S Church during the Loud Cry will eventually die during the Loud Cry or last plagues. Come in, but be prepared to die! :-0

 That's not the 7th Day Adventist message, GOD says come out of her and receive not the plagues. Come into the Ark of Jesus' righteousness and be protected from and go through the plagues. 

 Blessings!

  

Peace


Here is what the SOP has to say about the great ingathering, that will bring a great multitude of people during the Loud Cry.


EGW : "Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven, and I heard voices which seemed to sound everywhere, “Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.” This message seemed to be an addition to the third message, joining it as the midnight cry joined the second angel’s message in 1844. The glory of God rested upon the patient, waiting saints, and they fearlessly gave the last solemn warning, proclaiming the fall of Babylon and calling upon God’s people to come out of her that they might escape her fearful doom. – EW p.277
The light that was shed upon the waiting ones penetrated everywhere, and those in the churches who had any light, who had not heard and rejected the three messages, obeyed the call and left the fallen churches. Many had come to years of accountability since these messages had been given, and the light shone upon them, and they were privileged to choose life or death. Some chose life and took their stand with those who were looking for their Lord and keeping all His commandments. The third message was to do its work; all were to be tested upon it, and the precious ones were to be called out from the religious bodies. A compelling power moved the honest, while the manifestation of the power of God brought a fear and restraint upon their unbelieving relatives and friends so that they dared not, neither had they the power to, hinder those who felt the work of the Spirit of God upon them. The last call was carried even to the poor slaves, and the pious among them poured forth their songs of rapturous joy at the prospect of their happy deliverance. Their masters could not check them; fear and astonishment kept them silent. Mighty miracles were wrought, the sick were healed, and signs and wonders followed the believers. God was in the work, and every saint, fearless of consequences, followed the convictions of his own conscience and united with those who were keeping all the commandments of God; and with power they sounded abroad the third message. I saw that this message will close with power and strength far exceeding the midnight cry. – EW p.278
Servants of God, endowed with power from on high with their faces lighted up, and shining with holy consecration, went forth to proclaim the message from heaven. Souls that were scattered all through the religious bodies answered to the call, and the precious were hurried out of the doomed churches, as Lot was hurried out of Sodom before her destruction. God’s people were strengthened by the excellent glory which rested upon them in rich abundance and prepared them to endure the hour of temptation. I heard everywhere a multitude of voices saying, “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.” – EW p.278


This is the 7th Day Adventist teaching... The great multitude gathered from the fallen Churchs will unite with the saints that's in GOD'S last day Church.
It's the last day Church that GOD will use to gather the great multitude during the Loud Cry, mainly the 144,000. They are the main ones to gather the rest of the great harvest of souls that's in the fallen Churchs and the world, then they endure the hour of temptation.

 EGW: "The work will be similar to that of the Day of Pentecost. The “former rain” was given at the opening of the gospel to cause the upspringing of the precious seed; so the “latter rain” will be given at its close for the ripening of the harvest. Hosea 6:3; Joel 2:23. The great work of the gospel is not to close with less manifestation of the power of God than marked its opening. The prophecies which were fulfilled in the outpouring of the former rain at the opening of the gospel are again to be fulfilled in the latter rain at its close. Here are “the times of refreshing” to which the apostle Peter looked forward. Acts 3:19, 20. – HF p.372
Servants of God, their faces shining with holy consecration, will hasten from place to place to proclaim the message from heaven. Miracles will be wrought, the sick will be healed. Satan also works with lying wonders, even bringing down fire from heaven. Revelation 13:13. Thus the inhabitants of the earth will be brought to take their stand. – HF p.372

The message will be carried not so much by argument as by the deep conviction of the Spirit of God. The arguments have been presented, publications have exerted their influence, yet many have been prevented from fully comprehending the truth. Now the truth is seen in its clearness. Family connections, church relations are powerless to stay the honest children of God now. Notwithstanding the agencies combined against the truth, a large number take their stand upon the Lord’s side. – HF p.372

EGW: "Many of the rulers are those whom Satan controls; but... God has His agents, even among the rulers. And some of them will yet be converted to the truth....A few of God’s agents will have power to bear down a great mass of evil. Thus the work will go on until the third message has done its work, and at the loud cry of the third angel, these agents will have an opportunity to receive the truth, and some of them will be converted, and endure with the saints through the time of trouble." Mar p.202

EGW: "The enemy moves upon his servants to propose measures that would greatly impede the work of God; but statesmen who fear the Lord are influenced by holy angels to oppose such propositions with unanswerable arguments. Thus a few men will hold in check a powerful current of evil. The opposition of the enemies of truth will be restrained that the third angel’s message may do its work. When the final warning shall be given, it will arrest the attention of these leading men through whom the Lord is now working, and some of them will accept it, and will stand with the people of God through the time of trouble."GC88 p.610

EGW: "The proclamation of the gospel is the only means in which God can employ human beings as his instrumentalities for the salvation of souls. As men, women, and children proclaim the gospel, the Lord will open the eyes of the blind to see his statutes, and will write upon the hearts of the truly penitent his law. The animating Spirit of God, working through human agencies, leads the believers to be of one mind, one soul, unitedly loving God and keeping his commandments,—preparing here below for translation." RH October 13, 1904

 The great multitude gathered during the Loud Cry goes "through the time of trouble" with the saints of GOD'S last day Church, mainly the 144,000. To endure and go through means exactly what it says.. The 144,000 and great multitude goes through the last plagues waiting for translation.

 So the teaching that only 144,000 righteous saints will be alive when Jesus comes in the clouds is a false teaching. The pioneers didn't teach it and present pastors don't teach it.. But there are some who holds on to that belief, like JohnB, I was discussing it with him, but he just stop reasoning with me. I apologize if I said anything that may offended him. I have nothing but love for him.. With that, the fact is, he is wrong.
 

He mentioned to have the belief that a great multitude will be gathered during Loud Cry and be alive with the 144,000 is a shepherd rods teaching. Of course when people hear shepherds rod, the mind thinks false beliefs, offshoots... For me, I like to read what is taught before I can determine whether something false or not. On this particular subject, which is one of the main teachings, the shepherds rod folks have it correct. Why do many SDA people say they wrong on this particular subject is a mystery to me.. Again, I've shown that the pioneers taught it and present SDA pastors are teaching it now.

 So with that, and even though the reasoning here on AO is at a minimum, but unless someone has a disagreement, this particular subject shouldn't be up for debate anymore. The teaching is clear!

 Blessings!

Hello Reasoning 

I agree with you I just wanted to add that 144'000 is not a literal number as we read the list of the tribes we find it is talking about a symbolic Israel and therefore the 144'000 would also be symbolic. 

Peace 

  Ian wrote: "I agree with you I just wanted to add that 144'000 is not a literal number as we read the list of the tribes we find it is talking about a symbolic Israel and therefore the 144'000 would also be symbolic."

   Thank you my brother... I have to disagree with you... The 144,000 are a literal number, in other words, they are 144,000 literal human beings. I do agree the tribes are spiritual, but that doesn't mean the number of 144,000 is not an exact number.

 Taylor Bunch wrote: "The reaping message is to go to “every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.” (See Revelation 14:6-14) As twelve men were sealed for leadership by the Spirit in the beginning of the gospel proclamation under the early rain, twelve groups of men, of 12,000 each, will be sealed by the Spirit for Leadership in giving the Loud cry during the latter rain."

  Even though I'm not sold on the 144,000 being just men, I do agree with Taylor Bunch that there will be 144,000 individuals giving the Loud Cry. Pastor Doug Batchelor teaches the same thing. 

 

Doug Batchelor wrote: "Exactly How Many?
Now we can address the next big question: Is the figure 144,000 a literal number?

Perhaps I should answer that question with another question: Are the other numbers in Revelation literal or just spiritual?

For instance, will there be 12 gates and 12 foundations? Are there really 12 different kinds of fruit on the tree of life? Yes, of course! There are many prophetic time periods given in Revelation, but the numbers are not just nebulas numerical symbols—they are precise measures of time. The numbers would be useless for reckoning if they were merely symbolic. All of our understandings about the dimensions of the New Jerusalem are based on the assumption that these numbers have real literal value.

However, please keep in mind that though the number of the 144,000 might be exact, most people in the world might never know who they are or take a census. When Jesus walked the earth in Israel, it was no problem to count 12 literal apostles following the Messiah in the Holy Land. But the 144,000 in the last days are spiritual Jews—scattered across the circle of the earth leading in a magnificent revival. But they will not each be wearing a marathon running number.

Now you might be thinking, “How can you say that the names are symbolic and the number is literal?” Simple, Jesus did. It doesn’t seem to matter to the Lord what tribes the 12 Apostles sprang from, but it did matter that there were 12 of them. Also remember that while most of the numbers in Revelation depict a real value, all the proper names in Revelation are symbols (e.g., The Lamb, The Dragon, the Lion, Balaam, Jezebel, etc.)." 'Who will sing the song.. Understanding the 144,000'

 JohnB and I agree with Doug Batchelor, well.. to the extent of the 144,000 being a literal number, but unfortunately JohnB doesn't see the 144,000 represents or are symbolic of the greater harvest of living saints gathered during the Loud Cry that'll be alive when Jesus comes in the clouds. 

 

July 2009, JohnB wrote: "In "The Day-Star", of 24th January 1846 Ellen White used the sentence, "The living saints, 144,000, in number, know and understand the voice, while the wicked thought it was thunder & an earthquake." Put simply, she refers to "the living saints" as firstly, "144,00" and secondly, "in number". There is no hint that she is speaking symbolically. Note, she does not say they are "144,000 in number" but rather that they are "144,000, in number". The comma is crucial as it interrupts the flow of the words and defines the 144,000....

... In the book of Revelation all numbers are taken as being literal; 7 churches; 1,260 days; 10 horns; 2 witnesses, etc., etc. Why should this number be any different from all the others?

Does 144,000 seem too small a number? Yet of all those (millions?) who left Egypt only two entered into the promised land.

Does it seem wrong that God should define a specific number? Yet He defined 7 churches; 1,260 days; 10 horns; 2 witnesses, etc., etc.

In regard to who will compose up the 144,000 she said, "It is not His will that they shall get into controversy over questions which will not help them spiritually, such as, Who is to compose the hundred and forty-four thousand? This those who are the elect of God will in a short time know without question." The problem at the time was that members were trying to identify who will be a part of the 144,000. Sis. White said don't try and work out who will be a part of that number, rather just "strive" to be a part of the 144,000.

There is nothing to suggest that this one number out of all the various numbers used in the Revelation is symbolic. As a church we hold all other numbers in this book to have a literal meaning. Only 144,000 do some claim to be symbolic whilst Ellen White refers to it as a definite number. This number is not arbitrary. It is definite and specific. When one reads through the Bible one finds that God uses specific numbers on many occasions and certain numbers crop up again and again. I don't believe that any of the numbers that God uses are arbitrary, rather that God uses very specific numbers for a specific purpose.
Can you give an example of God using a number in prophecy that is not literal but symbolic?" JohnB

 Brother Ian, the two views has to blend... The 144,000 are literal amount humans (saints), and they also represent the greater harvest of saints that's gathered during the Loud Cry. 

 The 144,000 are in the SDA Church before the LoudCry begins, and their work is not easy, they "... are those “that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done” in the church. Their love for purity and the honor and glory of God is such, and they have so clear a view of the exceeding sinfulness of sin, that they are represented as being in agony, even sighing and crying". 

 EGW: "The true people of God, who have the spirit of the work of the Lord and the salvation of souls at heart, will ever view sin in its real, sinful character. They will always be on the side of faithful and plain dealing with sins which easily beset the people of God. Especially in the closing work for the church, in the sealing time of the one hundred and forty-four thousand who are to stand without fault before the throne of God, will they feel most deeply the wrongs of God’s professed people. This is forcibly set forth by the prophet’s illustration of the last work under the figure of the men each having a slaughter weapon in his hand. One man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer’s inkhorn by his side. “And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.” – 3T p.266
Who are standing in the counsel of God at this time? Is it those who virtually excuse wrongs among the professed people of God and who murmur in their hearts, if not openly, against those who would reprove sin? Is it those who take their stand against them and sympathize with those who commit wrong? No, indeed! Unless they repent, and leave the work of Satan in oppressing those who have the burden of the work and in holding up the hands of sinners in Zion, they will never receive the mark of God’s sealing approval. They will fall in the general destruction of the wicked, represented by the work of the five men bearing slaughter weapons. Mark this point with care: Those who receive the pure mark of truth, wrought in them by the power of the Holy Ghost, represented by a mark by the man in linen, are those “that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done” in the church. Their love for purity and the honor and glory of God is such, and they have so clear a view of the exceeding sinfulness of sin, that they are represented as being in agony, even sighing and crying. Read the ninth chapter of Ezekiel. – 3T p.267

 Imagine having to do that work for a Church people that thinks they are  ".. rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:". 

 There's no problem with telling the fallen Churchs and the world of their judgment, but we can't see that judgement starts with the SDA Church first. Again, this is what the Shepherds rods people teach, and again, on this particular subject, they have it correct. 

 I believe to rebut what the shepherds rods people teach, people in the SDA Church have come up with false teachings. But SOP agrees with what the shepherds rods people teach, on this particular subject. Taylor Bunch agrees too,.. 

  


Taylor Bunch wrote (Signs of the time 1950): "Likewise just before the "latter rain" of spiritual power which brings the final gospel harvest to maturity, the first-fruits sheaf must pass through a similar sifting, shaking, and purifying process to qualify this group for their special mission. The 144,000 constitute a selected company who are brought to perfection or maturity through a special experience, and who therefore became "the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb." That they are purified by a shaking or sifting experience is evident from the following texts: Ezekiel 20:35-38; Amos 9:9,10; Revelation 3:10-12, 4-16. The Laodicean message produces a shaking which is followed by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit "on all flesh" and the gathering in of the great harvest.
The 144,000 are said to be "without fault" or "without blemish," which is the language used in describing all first fruits. They must be the "first" in both time and quality, the "best" and "chief" fruits of the field or vineyard. The first fruits have been defined as "the fruits or product first matured and collected in any season." "Matured" is from the Latin maturus, meaning "ripe, of full age, perfected by time or natural growth, brought to perfection, completed, prepared, ready." The 144,000 are the first to be brought to perfection of character in the gospel harvest of the last generation. They reach mature spiritual growth and are sealed and given the Holy Spirit in "latter rain" showers, the purpose of which is to call the innumerable company of God's people out of spiritual Babylon before God's wrath is pouredout upon the rejectors of His grace in the seven last plagues."

 This is the 7th Day Adventist teaching. Like I told you before brother Ian, I love correction, if anyone sees it differently, please present your case. 

   

 Thank you my brother. Blessings!  

RSS

Site Sponsors

 

Adventist Single?
Meet other Single
Adventists here:
Join Free


USA members:

Support AO by
using this link:
Amazon.com

 

© 2021   Created by Clark P.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service