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Male Adventist Pastors Forgo Ordination Credentials in Solidarity with Unordained Women


I am honored to say that my pastor was one of those who turned in his Ordination credentials for Commissioned...In addition two Unions have suspended ordination altogether.


http://www.religionnews.com/2015/10/15/male-adventist-pastors-forgo...

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Peace


Yeah, probably the wrong words to use, sorry didn't mean you were trying to change my view, how could I be saying that? you only made a correction of yourself.. You didn't say anything in regards to what I wrote.

As far as me believing only men should be leaders, when it comes to a married coulpe's household then yes, the Bible says that..

In regards to church business, I believe SDA churches have women leaders right now, women who are running church functions making sure things are smoothly. Yeah, they don't have the laying on of hands and title of ordained pastor, but who cares about that, the thing that matters is who GOD has ordained. Jesus through EGW writings which is the SOP is leader of the SDA Church. I trust a women's writings before any ordained male pastor in the SDA church. Other than the Bible, Her writings pastors, leads me.

Again, I like what the brothers are doing, they said here take these ordaintion papers back, they decided to be equal with women in regards to church title. The title that they handed in doesn't change them from being a pastor, they still preach and teach the Word of GOD don't they?


“In our structure, I can’t make them equal with me by ordaining them, but I can make myself equal with them by taking the commissioned license, which is exactly what they have,” he said."



This statement is deep, because if every pastor did this, then the issue is no more. It also points to how a true marriage should be, being equal and how being on one accord produces good fruit.



I believe like a marriage people should be equal, every body plays a part in the vineyard, working together. I believe the institution of marriage can help us understand and resolve this issue.



EGW: "Eve was told of the sorrow and pain that must henceforth be her portion. And the Lord said, “Thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” In the creation, God had made her the equal of Adam. Had they remained obedient to God—in harmony with His great law of love—they would ever have been in harmony with each other; but sin had brought discord, and now their union could be maintained and harmony preserved only by submission on the part of the one or the other. Eve had been the first in transgression; and she had fallen into temptation by separating from her companion, contrary to the divine direction. It was by her solicitation that Adam sinned, and she was now placed in subjection to her husband. Had the principles enjoined in the law of God been cherished by the fallen race, this sentence, though growing out of the results of sin, would have proved a blessing to them; but man’s abuse of the supremacy thus given him has too often rendered the lot of woman very bitter, and made her life a burden. – {AH 115.1}
Eve had been perfectly happy by her husband’s side in her Eden home; but, like restless modern Eves, she was flattered with the hope of entering a higher sphere than that which God had assigned her. In attempting to rise above her original position, she fell far below it. A similar result will be reached by all who are unwilling to take up cheerfully their life duties in accordance with God’s plan. [4] – {AH 115.2}


It points to the deeper problem of being in sin that causes us to battle each other, when we should try to come together. If the Holy Spirit was truly leading then this wouldn't be a problem, we would be able to find middle ground and move forward as one. That's why I believe what these male pastors are doing is a start to that middle ground, even though their doing it so women can be ordained.. I think it shows ordination by laying on of humans hands doesn't hold any weight in of its self.
Im sorry, I just like peace, and if ordination is banned from the SDA Church then it would stop this subject from being a dividing issue. and it'll be peace on this subject. Yea....


Blessings to you my sister!!

Jesus came as the "Son of Man".   Are you saying the gender of Christ is a problem?   There are wonderful people both men and women on both sides of this issue, you should not make this into a gender war.  The Bible and what the Bible says is what matters not what people think or what their gender is. 

Peace

Bart: "Jesus came as the "Son of Man". Are you saying the gender of Christ is a problem? There are wonderful people both men and women on both sides of this issue, you should not make this into a gender war. The Bible and what the Bible says is what matters not what people think or what their gender is."




Brother Bart, how are you, hope all is well... Is your post for me?

Huh, how is the gender of Christ a problem? Please explain. It's not a problem for me.

I don't question there are wonderful people on both sides, but wonderful people have wrong mindsets on certain issues as well.


We can't overlook that gender plays a role, I'm talking about mindsets of some.
But its more about sin than anything. We are dirty rags, men and women, to let this issue be a disruption as it has shows how sinful we are, there's no unity on this issue. There's one way that will bring unity and that's Ban Ordination altogether, I call it BO!


Blessings!

No, it is not Reasoning, It is for Sarah, She was saying that men are the ones leading the fight against WO.  I agree with what you're saying. God ordains who He ordains people have no choice in the matter.  The post was not to end up where it did.   What is disturbing about WO is that people bring in their on worldly thoughts rather than seeking God.  They use the word culture or say things against Paul as a writer as if what he said does not belong in the Bible.   Jesus was a man is all I was saying,  this is not a gender war as some would like to make it out to be.  The enemy is causing this as a distraction when we should all be focused. 

Peace


Oh ok brother Bart, thank you! :)


What do you think about BO (Ban Ordaintion)?

You think the church can still function if every pastor hands in their ordaintion credentials? and will it put a end to this issue?

I think it would end this beef between many of our brothers and sisters in GOD'S Church, at least on this issue.


Blessings!

Yes I agree.  Jesus was never ordained of men.   Much good work is done by lay people in a self supporting way.  

I think Sarah, a long time contributor to AO deleted her post. I should have copied it. 

Come to think of it all this battle of the sexes in the church is actually removing our focus from the great work that we are commission to do. So much discord exist in the church today, hence, there is a huge halt in evangelism. The enemy must be rejoicing. This gender equality crap is a secular syndrome that has polarized the church and is causing great confusion in the church.

Absolutely right Emmy the enemy has bought the womans emancipation in to the church. The bible is clear we was created equal, however God has also created us to have different roles to fulfill.

We find the emancipation movement telling us that  woman can do all things that men do as well as doing the things that they was designed to do. Meaning that man is now redundant. 

Peace

Pastor T : "If you truly believe that the Holy Spirit has ordained women to be a Pastor, in the same way as a man, then why shouldn't she be ordained?"


Hi pastor T., this what the SOP says,



EGW: "All who desire an opportunity for true ministry, and who will give themselves unreservedly to God, will find in the canvassing work opportunities to speak upon many things pertaining to the future, immortal life. The experience thus gained will be of the greatest value to those who are fitting themselves for the ministry. It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God. As they cherish the thought that Christ is their Companion, a holy awe, a sacred joy, will be felt by them amid all their trying experiences and all their tests. They will learn how to pray as they work. They will be educated in patience, kindness, affability, and helpfulness. They will practice true Christian courtesy, bearing in mind that Christ, their Companion, cannot approve of harsh, unkind words or feelings. Their words will be purified. The power of speech will be regarded as a precious talent, lent them to do a high and holy work. The human agent will learn how to represent the divine Companion with whom he is associated. To that unseen Holy One he will show respect and reverence because he is wearing His yoke and is learning His pure, holy ways. Those who have faith in this divine Attendant will develop. They will be gifted with power to clothe the message of truth with a sacred beauty."


She said,


EGW: " It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God. "



You see there are mans ways of doing things and GOD'S way... GOD ordaining or preparing workers, both men and women to become pastors to HIS flock is different from how the church does it.

Not saying brothers like yourself aren't true pastors because you went through men's way, if it shows by your fruits then you are who you are in GOD'S vineyard... But the title and position of ordain pastor that the church gives a person doesn't mean a person is fitted for that position, but if GOD is in it then it's no doubt.


Blessings!!
Peace


Pastor T.: "However, my question to you was: If you truly believe that the Holy Spirit has ordained women to be a Pastor, in the same way as a man, then why shouldn't she be ordained?
If you believe that the same Holy Spirit calls and equips both men and women as Pastors, then why shouldn't both be ordained?"



Both are ordained pastor T., I think we can agree the Holy Spirit does call and equips right?

GOD chooses who HE wants, HE ordains a person in whatever position they serve in HIS vineyard, HE chooses men and women to lead HIS flock. SOP says


EGW: "All who desire an opportunity for true ministry, and who will give themselves unreservedly to God, will find in the canvassing work opportunities to speak upon many things pertaining to the future, immortal life. The experience thus gained will be of the greatest value to those who are fitting themselves for the ministry. It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God."


To be clear, when the Holy Spirit is leading and prepares a man or woman to be pastors to the flock of GOD like the SOP says, then they are both ordained. Nothing to do with laying on hands in a ceremony by men... Mens approval isn't needed, GOD decides. You understand what I'm saying?


Blessings!
Peace

Pastor: "When you say that men's approval is not needed, you are saying that anyone can call themselves a Pastor and lead in the Adventist Church, which I understand in the custom in certain places in the world."


We will know them by their fruits Pastor T.



Pastor T.: "The ordination of Pastors through the organisation of the World Church is essential to maintain a litigate and authorised level of leadership. "



That can be done without ordination ceremony with the laying on of hands by men. Do you believe if all ordained pastors hand in there ordaintion credentials and get a commissioned license, do you believe the church will fall apart?


Pastor T.: "While you say that men's approval is not needed, you agree that men should be ordained by the Adventist Church but that women should not be. Can you explain how you come to that conclusion?"


No, I believe GOD chooses who is a pastor, and like SOP says


EGW: " It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God. "


You want me to trust in a system that has proven in the past to be abused? I trust in GOD!!



EGW: "Both Paul and Barnabas had already received their commission from God Himself, and the ceremony of the laying on of hands added no new grace or virtual qualification."


EGW: "At a later date, the rite of ordination by the laying on of hands was greatly abused; unwarrantable importance was attached to the act, as if a power came at once upon those who received such ordination, which immediately qualified them for any and all ministerial work. But in the setting apart of these two apostles, there is no record indicating that any virtue was imparted by the mere act of laying on of hands." —GW p.442



Blessings!

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