In the lesson study for this Quarter, the author posit that that there were two messianic prophecies, and that the first century Jewish Messianic expectation was one-sided. Can this argument be substantiated? Are there two Messianic prophecies? If it is found that there isn't two messianic prophecies and that Jesus had not fulfill any of the prophecies given by God, would you give up the Christian walk, or would you continue to have a relationship with God and look for Jesus to come? How do you reason.
Garth and others:
1. The preparation for the passover starts with selection and inspection of the unblemished lamb for 4 days. The sacrifice of the passover lamb occurs on the 14th of Nisan (think Jewish calendar, not Friday through Sunday, as the Passover does not always fall on a “Friday night to Saturday regular Sabbath.”
2. The Passover starts at dusk which is then the 15th of Nison. There is the sedar Passover dinner
3. Jesus did not attend the Passover meal because he was and is the final sacrifice. The meal attended was earlier. The animal lamb does not attend the Passover dinner, neither did Jesus the Passover sacrifice for potentially all mankind attend the Passover dinner.
3. The three days and nights is accurate as the sign of Jonah, as Jesus stated in Matthew 12:38-41;
” Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.”
The law in Leviticus 23 specifically gives the sequence and requirements of the passover (and othet feasts) which Jesus was required to follow in order to be the final sacrifice and to which he did folow exactly.
4. Under Jewish law a person was declared dead after three days and three nights. Jesus was in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
The High Convocation High Sabbath, not to be confued with the weekly Sabbath wherein no work is done starts at dusk on the 15th of Nisan. This is also the start of the Feast of Unleavened Bread which was prepared for by removal of every trace of leaven in homes and lasts for seven days of eating bread without leaven ending again in a Day of Holy Convocation, a special High Sabbath.
5. The Catholic church and loss of understanding of the Law, Hebrew culture, feasts and their significance has lead to false traditions which muddy the accuracy of the Word of God and makes s mockery of the greatest sacrifice in history. Those that attack me on this are attacking the truth and the perfect timing of God and the sacrifice of His only begotten Son. Likewise unbelievers look at the foolish side of tradition and apparent contradictions thereby and think The Bible is not accurate or trustworthy. Either you believe in the sign of Jonah or you don’t. Jonah was a forshadowing of the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus. If Jesus did not fulfill the law regarding the Passover including exact timing, then he could not take our sins and infimaties in our place.
James, you are wrong according to the gospel of Luke where we can work out it would be no more than 30 hours that Jesus as in the tomb. Or is it you will tell us that the Gospel of Luke is not true?
How did you get Monday? You pointed out "drawing near to Sabbath" that means Sabbath had not yet begun. Are you saying the Day of Preparation is some non-existent time in limbo out side of Friday?
Does time skip a beat during the Day of Preparation; Did it stop like when Joshua prayed for the sun and moon to stand still? I know there were some significant event's that took place that day such as the earthquake and darkness. However, I don't recall time skipping being one of them.
Perhaps you are confusing the darkness for a whole day passing? But that's not biblical to my understanding. The Jews would have noted how the stars had changed after the darkness had ended if this were the case.
Good morning Rabbitroup,
According to the Biblical authors, they said it was drawing near to Sabbath, which is means that whoever was there saw the sun was setting on the Friday evening. For Jews count their days from sunset of a prior day to sunset on the following day as one day. It does not matter what is happening during the day. They have twelve hours in a day. So all events that occurred to Jesus on that Friday occurred within that 12 hour space of time. At the end of Sabbath constituted one day. And from sunset on Sabbath to sunset on Sunday evening constitute the second day. The Jews follow the Genesis concept of night and day as one day. And Jesus was a Jew and follow the Jewish custom of counting days, so how did his three days move to a 24 hour system is interesting.
Garth you do not get it do you.
Garth the way you view things is confusing, it's incorrect to say that drawing near means Sabbath had begun. It was "drawing near" to sabbath when the women prepared spices but they rested on the Sabbath. Drawing near just means it's about to start, not that it has started. I can be near the finish line in a race but I won't win if my time to beat passes before I cross it.
Garth Said "For Jews count their days from sunset of a prior day to sunset on the following day as one day"
You do realize SDA follow that same concept when it comes to Sabbath? If someone shops or prepares spices as the Sabbath is drawing near it does not mean they prepared spices on the Sabbath Garth. It just indicates they probably realized they had little time left and prioritized their task before Sabbath arrived.
Unless you consider the Day of preparation some alternate time line from Friday or we all missed something in scripture about time skipping when Jesus died on the cross; then your explanation is even more confusing than those assumptions would indicate.
Good day brother,
permit me to make it clear for you. With respect to the Jews although they count their day from sunset to sunset, they observe time from sunrise to sunset -a total of 12 hours. In rebuttal to your argument, Jews do not play when it comes to God's Sabbath. Sabbath for all Jews from ancient time to present commenced from Friday evening to Sabbath. According to (Anderson, 1994), Although variations on Sabbath observance exist among the branches of Judaism and even among families, the basic pattern is universal.
"The Sabbath begins on Friday at sundown and lasts until sundown on Saturday, but preparation for the Sabbath begins well in advance. The majority of Sabbath activity is carried out in the home, so Friday is a day of hard work by the women of the household as they shop and prepare. All cooking and baking for the Sabbath day must be completed before the Sabbath begins, so the Jewish home is a hive of activity in the morning and afternoon. In addition to the preparation of food, the house is likely to receive a thorough cleaning. Fortunately for the housewife, the men of the house may assist her in this task."(source:http://www.rj-anderson.com/docs/sabbath.html).
And you can take this segment: Nehemiah 13:15-19 and Levitcus 23:32, which states that "32 It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall 3afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall 4celebrate your sabbath.”
John and Elijah posit an argument that part of a day can constitute a whole day, but that do not whole weight for as I was duly inform this occurs in Jewish practice that constitutes to specific conditions - uncleaness of a woman, funeral et cetera but it not a common practice amongst them; and moreover, what part of the day would you constitute a whole day. In addition can one call Sabbath, part of the day? I believe it is an attempt by persons to be cheeky and to be grasping at straws. On a whole, for more than several thousands years Jews follow a solar lunar system, so did it just stop working at Jesus' execution and burial?
He Jesus said that He would be resurrected after three days and three nights in the earth. According to him, "For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Matt. 12:40. So talk to me. Thus is it not the case that those professing this Sunday resurrection is making Jesus a liar and a false prophet? Moreover, is a case by the Catholic church to support their celebration of Sunday observance thus the work of their translators to swing those segments to read a particular way? Talk to me
Garth, you have been shown and you ignore as you cannot admit you can be wrong Just like the thread with the Garden of Eden.
Good morning Elijah,
I write to thank you for your response, and I would like you to explain how I am wrong. For if Jesus said, and note who said it, yes, Jesus. If He said he would rise after 3 days, how come he rose after two nights and a day? For your attempt to count Friday as a day, Sabbath as a day and Sunday as a day is not inline with Judaism and the Ancient Jews way of reasoning out their day and time. And Jesus was a Jew and when He spoke to Jews like Himself about the day of death and resurrection, that is the time frame they would reason with. So please inform us respondents. For it looks like a checkmate in that the Roman Catholic system won again.
Gart I am amazed at how you find it so hard to open your Bible to where it says exactly when how and where The Gospel of Luke see my post at the end of this thread. And please do not tell me that the Bible is wrong as James does when I quote a text he has not a place for in his thinking if you can call it that.
From my understanding Jesus' last meal was eaten on what Romans and a lot of people would recognize as Wednesday evening/dusk. But it would have been Thursday for Jews since days begin at dusk/sunset and the meal he ate was what I believe is known as the first Leavened bread which is traditionally eaten at the beginning of 15th (Dusk or the start of Thursday for Jews.) The Jews wouldn't have done anything significant the day prior (Wednesday/14th) other than slaughter the sacrifice since they weren't supposed to work that Holy day.
Later Thursday, after Jesus had been betrayed by Judas. They also would have had the feast of Passover (Festival of Matzahs I believe) on which day it was tradition for Rome to release a prisoner to the conquered Jews. The Jews asked for Barabbas and Jesus was led away to be killed by the Romans... murdered due to some (not all) Jews.
It's common that people believe heart of the earth was referring to Jesus tomb. However, there is also the translation during the time that it referred to Hades or Sheol which Jesus would have entered the moment he died marking the first night (before Preparation day/ Friday Morning), the second night being the one after his body was moved to the tomb (before Sabbath/Saturday day) and the third night was prior to the third day(Sunday) which was also the day Jesus rose from the dead (returned from Sheol/Hades... the heart of the earth). Sunday is also the first day of the week.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
FYI - Hell is the english word for Hades/Sheol
Our soul is the essential part of who we are Garth. It would have been 4 nights in the Heart of the Earth/Sheol/Hades if it were Monday... Unless time the sun and moon somehow stood still which is why I asked you about that earlier.
Personally, the time line isn't something I believe worth quarreling over. I'm convinced in what I believe and I guess you are too. What matters most is that we believe in Jesus, his message and that he through God conquered death for all. Which is a significant part of why Jesus died in the first place.
If we would not have the Scriptures clouded to our understanding so that the plainest truths shall not be comprehended, we must have the simplicity and faith of a little child, ready to learn and beseeching the aid of the Holy Spirit. A sense of the power and wisdom of God and of our inability to comprehend His greatness, should inspire us with humility, and we should open His Word, as we would enter His presence, with holy awe. When we come to the Bible, reason must acknowledge an authority superior to itself, and heart and intellect must bow to the great I AM. - Testimonies for the Church 5:703, 704 (1889).