In the lesson study for this Quarter, the author posit that that there were two messianic prophecies, and that the first century Jewish Messianic expectation was one-sided. Can this argument be substantiated? Are there two Messianic prophecies? If it is found that there isn't two messianic prophecies and that Jesus had not fulfill any of the prophecies given by God, would you give up the Christian walk, or would you continue to have a relationship with God and look for Jesus to come? How do you reason.
Hi hi John,
Thank you for the post, but please do note in Jewish culture, this is what they call in Hebrew 'onah' and it is applicable to special circumstances, or events as you outline there. However it is not in the normal scheme of day reckoning amongst Jews. So you can not apply that special circumstance to the hours when Jesus dead and burried and say ok Jesus died and buried withing the 3rd and 11th hour so let us call that a day. No brothers. It don't work so. What one is attempting to do there is trying to rationalize that Sunday resurrection is legit. And my follow up question is for who you doing that for? For as I ask a respondent, if Jesus resurrected on a Wednesday and not a Sunday as these narrators want us to believe, would it change your view on Jesus and the narratives in the bible. Morever, you see that part of day reasoning you coming with you know what though it treats with day or night, it speaks to menstrual cycle of a woman in common Jewish reasoning. But I believe one thing coming out of this discussion is that when you assess that Bible, more an more is being revealed. As I said there is a dark side to these synoptic gospel that can make a Christian back peddle if he not prepared.
According to Aish, it says that
The Jewish day does not begin and end at midnight as does the secular calendar day. Midnight is not a distinguishable astronomic event. In the era before the modern clock, a specific hour of the night could not be precisely known, whereas an hour of the day was easily determined by sighting the location of the sun. Thus, the day had to begin by precise, simple and universally recognized standards. This meant that the day had to be reckoned either from the beginning of night or the beginning of day.
In Jewish time, the day begins with the onset of night (the appearance of the stars) followed by the morning (which technically begins with the appearance of the North Star). According to some Jewish teachers, night and morning begin with sunset and sunrise respectively. For that is how the Torah describes it: "And there was evening and there was morning, the first day."
Garth said - "And Moreover would agree that one agreeing that Jesus resurrecting on Sunday is giving credence to the Roman Catholic system that they choosing to worship that day is fine?"
Garth said - "What one is attempting to do there is trying to rationalize that Sunday resurrection is legit."
Garth, Full disclosure I'm not an active SDA member anymore. However, I remember learning in sabbath school when I was kid that the resurrection on Sunday... the first day of the week discredits it being the Sabbath.
Unless you're talking about yourself I'm just not sure how you can type with a straight face and expect any SDA to take you serious throwing statements like that around.. It's you Garth trying to give credence by making Sunday something other than the first day of the week
Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Garth If you can not accept the fact that in Jesus day they counted part of a day as a whole day I do not think that anyone can help you with anything more about this. Come to think of it that counting years of a King's reign was also counting part of a year as a full year.
You are both in error. When the scriptures refer to "three days and three nights," it means what it says, not portions.
The following is from Companion Bible Appendix 144:
The "Three Days" and "Three Nights" of Matthew 12:40.
This Is Appendix 144 From The Companion Bible.
The fact that "three days" is used by Hebrew idiom for any part of three days and three nights is not disputed; because that was the common way of reckoning, just as it was when used of years. Three or any number of years was used inclusively of any part of those years, as may be seen in the reckoning of the reigns of any of the kings of Israel and Judah.
But, when the number of "nights" is stated as well as the number of "days", then the expression ceases to be an idiom, and becomes a literal statement of fact.
Moreover, as the Hebrew day began at sunset the day was reckoned from one sunset to another, the "twelve hours in the
day" (John 11:9) being reckoned from sunrise, and the twelve hours of the night from sunset. An evening-morning was thus used for a whole day of twenty-four hours, as in the first chapter of Genesis. Hence the expression "a night and a day" in 2 Corinthians 11:25denotes a complete day (Greek nuchthemeron).
When Esther says (Esther 4:16) "fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days", she defines her meaning as being three complete days, becuase she adds (being a Jewess) "night or day". And when it is written that the fast ended on "the third day" (5:1),"the third day" must have succeeded and included the third night.
In like manner the sacred record states that the young man (in 1Samuel 30:12) "had eaten no bread, nor drunk any water, three days and three nights". Hence, when the young man explains the reason, he says, "because three days agone I fell sick". He means therefore three complete days and nights, because, being an Egyptian (verses11, 13) he naturally reckoned his day as beginning at sunrise according to the Egyptian manner (see Encycl. Brit., 11th (Cambridge) ed., vol xi, page 77). His "three days agone" refers to the beginning of his sickness, and includes the whole period, giving the reason for his having gone without food during the whole period stated.
Hence, when it says that "Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights" (Jonah 1:17) it means exactly what is says, and that this can be the only meaning of the expression in Matthew 12:40; 16:4. Luke 11:30, is shown in Appendix 156.
In the expression, "the heart of the earth" (Matthew 12:40), the meaning is the same as "the heart of the sea", "heart" being put by the Figure of Speech, Metonymy (of the Subject), Appendix 6, for"the midst", and is frequently so translated. See Psalm 46:2. Jeremiah 51:1. Ezekiel 27:4, 25, 26, 27; 28:2. It is used of ships when sailing "in the heart of the seas", that is to say, in, or on the sea. See Ezekiel 27:25, 26; 28:8; also of people dwelling in the heart of the seas, that is to say, on islands (Ezekiel 28:2). Jonah uses the Hebrewbeten (= womb) in the same way (2:2).
End of quotation of Appendix 144.
No wonder Biblical critics and scoffers and unbelievers point to Good Friday to Easter Sunday and marvel at the mathematics and hurdle jumping and vain traditions that contradict scritpures and point out that the resurrection, which is crucial to Christianity, cannot even be reckoned properly in the traditions of Good Friday to Easter Sunday. The gymnastics used by SDA and most of Christianity so-called is a disgrace and the Bible is falsely discredited thereby, while the real culprit is foolish religion and tradition contrary to the scriptures and the truth.
You can rubbish SDA as much as you like the plain fact is you are dead wrong and need to find another study source. And you claim to be a super bible student and you do not even look at the scripture that proves you wrong. I never thought you were good at Bible study and you have just proven me correct.
its not the SDA at stake, but the accuracy and perfection of the Word of God and the final Passover potentially for all mankind.
Accuracy and perfection of the Word? since when did you have any regard for the Word of God? I have seen you saying parts of the Bible was wrong because it did not suit your preconceived ideas.
James don't get confused we are not discussing the ' three days and there nights'.
You are wrong, Garth brought that up as criticism oo doubt which is understandable given the confusion of tradition over scripture.
James the only ones confused is you and Garth You seem not to be able to understand that you cannot take one verse in isolation and build a doctrine on it.
Good day Mr. French,
You are on point with your observation, however, it should be noted that Jesus had passover with his disciples on Thursday, which is sunset on Wednesday and he was capture later on in that period, which we would call Wednesday night. He was tried and executed Friday, and He was laid in new Tomb by Joseph before Sabbath begun. Jesus said after he spend three nights and days in the earth he would rise up from the dead. So the point of counting is from when Joseph place him in the tomb. So I await Eljiah and all else to hear their reasoning against Jesus' words. It is either Jesus lying or they lying. Moreover, how does one treat with the fact that there is no prophecy about God resurrecting a Messiah?
Garth and others:
1. The preparation for the passover starts with selection and inspection of the unblemished lamb for 4 days. The sacrifice of the passover lamb occurs on the 14th of Nisan (think Jewish calendar, not Friday through Sunday, as the Passover does not always fall on a “Friday night to Saturday regular Sabbath.”
2. The Passover starts at dusk which is then the 15th of Nison. There is the sedar Passover dinner
3. Jesus did not attend the Passover meal because he was and is the final sacrifice. The meal attended was earlier. The animal lamb does not attend the Passover dinner, neither did Jesus the Passover sacrifice for potentially all mankind attend the Passover dinner.
3. The three days and nights is accurate as the sign of Jonah, as Jesus stated in Matthew 12:38-41;
” Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.”
The law in Leviticus 23 specifically gives the sequence and requirements of the passover (and othet feasts) which Jesus was required to follow in order to be the final sacrifice and to which he did folow exactly.
4. Under Jewish law a person was declared dead after three days and three nights. Jesus was in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
The High Convocation High Sabbath, not to be confued with the weekly Sabbath wherein no work is done starts at dusk on the 15th of Nisan. This is also the start of the Feast of Unleavened Bread which was prepared for by removal of every trace of leaven in homes and lasts for seven days of eating bread without leaven ending again in a Day of Holy Convocation, a special High Sabbath.
5. The Catholic church and loss of understanding of the Law, Hebrew culture, feasts and their significance has lead to false traditions which muddy the accuracy of the Word of God and makes s mockery of the greatest sacrifice in history. Those that attack me on this are attacking the truth and the perfect timing of God and the sacrifice of His only begotten Son. Likewise unbelievers look at the foolish side of tradition and apparent contradictions thereby and think The Bible is not accurate or trustworthy. Either you believe in the sign of Jonah or you don’t. Jonah was a forshadowing of the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus. If Jesus did not fulfill the law regarding the Passover including exact timing, then he could not take our sins and infimaties in our place.