Adventist Online

In the lesson study for this Quarter, the author posit that that there were two messianic prophecies, and that the first century Jewish Messianic expectation was one-sided. Can this argument be substantiated? Are there two Messianic prophecies? If it is found that there isn't two messianic prophecies and that Jesus had not fulfill any of the prophecies given by God, would you give up the Christian walk, or would you continue to have a relationship with God and look for Jesus to come? How do you reason.

Views: 501

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Ask a child.

Garth: Churchianity also called religion; has it wrong in a lot of ways as you can't get 3 days and three nights out of so called Good Friday to Easter Sunday no matter how you do the math. Jesus was crucified on the 14th Day of Nisan according to scripture and the law, the preparation for the Passover, as he is the true sacrifice for man's sins potentially. He was in the ground 3 days and 3 nights. He gave up the ghost (died) 3:00 pm. He had to be buried before sunset so that those doing the burial would not be unclean for the Passover. 

Sunset on the 14th of Nisan began the next day, the 15th of Nisan, that would be the first night, the 15th of Nisan daytime was the first day. After sunset that would be the second night.

The 16th of Nisan daytime was the second day. That night would be the third night and the following daytime (the 16th of Nisan still) would finish the last 3rd day.

Jesus got up three days and three nights after he died. Religion to the contrary notwithstanding.

Jesus stated that:

Matthew 12:
 38¶ Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.  39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here."

The most important truth in Christianity is that Jesus Christ got up from the dead after three days and three nights in the heart of the earth, as under law and culture a person was not declared dead until three days and three nights had transpired.

As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Jonah was drowned and dead for three days and three nights and resurrected and spewed out of the whale as a figure and foreshadowing of the resurrection of Jesus.

Good Friday to Easter Sunday so called is all Catholic timing and Catholic names, totally inaccurate in both time and names. Jesus Christ is the final Passover for all that believe.

The above fits with the law and the prophecies, with the Jewish Calendar and with common sense and truth. If Jonah and Jesus were not both dead and resurrected after three days and three nights, as the sign of Jonah then the scriptures are broken and you might as well become a Buddhist, but the scriptures are not broken thereby but are true. Let every false religion be a lie, but God's Word true.

 

See uploaded "The Hours of The Lord's Last Day" by E.W. Bullinger Appendix.

Attachments:

Some of you people refuse to look or consider evidence and scholarship and wisdom. Preferring EGW religion to the truth of scriptures. Thats the real reason you hate me.

Bullinger is not any authority for SDA he may be lacking in wisdom as well if he can not reconcile the Gospels. And you are a fool to put all your trust in one source. 

James said, "Some of you people refuse to look or consider evidence and scholarship and wisdom. Preferring EGW religion to the truth of scriptures. Thats [sic] the real reason you hate me."

"You people"? Really, you think that's the way to address others? To follow that up with another series of assumptions once again reveals your character.

No-one has quoted Ellen White but you decide to declare her as being counter "the truth of scripture" - by which one must assume that you are referring to the "Bullinger religion" that you propose.

Whilst I have great respect for Bullinger I do not accept your claim that he is "the truth of scripture", particularly when you vacillate between lauding his research and denying it.

To close with "Thats the real reason you hate me" is rather pathetic. The reason that you are so disliked on this forum is due to your constant dishonesty about your beliefs and the fact that you are rude, abusive, ego-driven and show a most unChristlike character whilst demanding that we accept your unBiblical theories without question. (If I am wrong here then I am sure that other posters will correct me.)

OK, Garth, I hope you take no notice of James who seems to have a very poor understanding about what the Bible says about the crucifixion, with the exception of 3 days he is wrong in most points. Given the Passover was on the 14th day of Nissan it does not follow that Jesus was crucified and hung on the cross on that day. We need to read all the Gospels and compare them and when we Come to Luke we find what days it is Jesus Crucified on Friday Because of the trail takes place on Thursday evening and Friday morning when Pilate was rudely woken early in the morning and asked to put a sentence on Jesus. So Jesus was placed on the Cross about Noon on Friday and Died about 3 pm when the evening sacrifice was prepared in the Temple. The Curtain was torn from top to bottom by an unseen hand.    

At near the sunset on Friday was Jesus taken off the cross and placed in the Toomb He rested there all day Sabbath and Rose early Sunday Morning. 

Now a poor Bible student like James would say it does not make 3 days he is right if we look at it from the 21st-century viewpoint. But we need to look at it from the setting of the day it happened and where they counted Part of a day as a whole day. Therefore the scripture is right in all the 4 Gospels. But those who have an agenda will only use texts that suit themselves. 

Even you Garth is at fault here if you recall Adam and Eve and the fruit of the tree in the Garden of Eden. You claimed that Scripture from the New Testament was not Inspired although it was written by Paul, and proved you wrong!

The answer is, Garth, that you simply have to read what is "clearly stated in black and white".

1. We know that Jesus died on Friday: 

And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.  (Luke 23:54,55)

2. He remained in the tomb on the Sabbath:

And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. (Luke 23:56)

3. He rose on Sunday, the first day of the week:

Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. (Luke 24:1-7)

4. On that Sunday Jews recognised that this was indeed 3 days:

But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done. (Luke 24:21)

As Elijah has pointed out, the Jews reckoned days differently than we do today. For them a part of a day could be reckoned as being representative of the entire day. For that reason the disciples were able to reckon Sunday as the third day since Friday afternoon whereas modern man would argue that it was the second day. Jesus died on Friday slept in the tomb on Saturday and rose early Sunday morning and the disciples reckoned that as three days and therefore fulfilment of the prophecy.

In 31AD, the year of the crucifixion, 14 Nisan fell on the Friday (Preparation day) and 15 Nisan fell on the seventh-day Sabbath. This is the complete fulfilment of type meeting antitype. God made the annual Passover a sabbath to prefigure the fact that in the year of Christ's crucifixion the Passover would fall on the Sabbath day. According to type the 16 Nisan was when the wave sheaf of the firstfruits was presented in the Temple and so Christ presented those resurrected with Him to the Father as the firstfruits of the redeemed on that same day. So the Old Testament types of the sanctuary on earth were fulfilled in the sanctuary in heaven.

Good afternoon JohnB,

I write to thank you for your response, however, in rebuttal, yes the Jews reckon days differently given they follow a lunar-solar system. They reckon their days from sunset to sunrise, and the number of days it takes for the moon to circle the sun, with their sage making adjustments to keep them in sync with regard to their special festivals. So given that Sabbath began on Friday evening until Sabbath evening that gentlemen constitutes one day, From Sabbath evening to Sunday evening that constitute a second day. Jesus was awake within that second day. From Sunday evening to Monday evening will constitute the third day. And if one is going along with the narrative presented by Luke, where in the conversation between Jesus and His two disciples on Emmaus road that all these things that befall the prophet occurred three days ago, I believe one can see the problem. Three days have nor pass as yet. Thus it is either Luke,some author, or the translators are attempting to give the reader a Jesus Sunday resurrection, or the these disciples are loosing their scruples if they are Jews. For up to this present date, Jews have not change their way of reckoning their days and hours. According to Chabad, "When G‑d created time, He first created night and then day. Therefore, a Jewish calendar date begins with the night beforehand. While a day in the secular calendar begins and ends at midnight, a Jewish day goes from nightfall to nightfall."(para.1:https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/526873/jewish/The-Je...). So someone is being creative. 

On the other hand, brethren, one of my main arguments is that for the authors in the gospels who were attempting to use the old testament to show that the Messiah has come did not do a good job. It was best that they presented their story of God's Son. It made me wonder if in certain instances the narrator put words in Jesus mouth. Well what do you think?

Luke 24: . 21 But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, today is the third day since these things happened...

Instead of saying ' today is the third day since these things happened' what should they have said? 

If you arrived in a new country and someone ask you how long you've been here, couldn't you say 'today is the third day I've been here if you arrived on Friday? 

Do you think the writers and the Holy Spirit would  be so dumb to make such a silly error?

Garth said, "Well what do you think?"

I think that you have deliberately ignored what I said so that you can argue against the Bible.

I said, "As Elijah has pointed out, the Jews reckoned days differently than we do today. For them a part of a day could be reckoned as being representative of the entire day. For that reason the disciples were able to reckon Sunday as the third day since Friday afternoon whereas modern man would argue that it was the second day."

So there is no rebuttal, it is just you ignoring what I said and arguing against a point that was not made. Your stance on the Bible puts you at odds with Christians, let alone Seventh-day Adventists. So discussion is pointless as you believe that the Bible is man-inspired rather than God-inspired. I realise that you have a tenuous grasp of the English language but I believe that you understand what I wrote and just choose to ignore it.

Garth, I do not think any SDA need to be taught that the reckoning of the Jewish way of keeping days from evening to evening. And your dishonesty shows here as you have totally ignored that that was not the question here the question was how can we make 3 days out of a time span of 50 hours. The answer was given that a part of a day was counted as a day. Therefore a few hours on Friday (preparation day) and the whole Sabbath and a few hours on Sunday (First day). Seems to me that either you can not read or you are short of mental capacity to comprehend that there was a difference in how the Jews counted days. Or you are just plain dishonest.     

Remember Garth cannot discuss one issue at a time...

RSS

Site Sponsors

 

Adventist Single?
Meet other Single
Adventists here:
Join Free


USA members:

Support AO by
using this link:
Amazon.com

 

© 2018   Created by Clark P.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service