Good day brothers and sisters, do have a wonderful Sabbath experience.
Today my question to you comes from my study of the underpinning principles that guide Muslims. The question is do you think that Muslims who serve God would live with Him eternally? If Yes or No, why?
Yes we are judged by works but saved by faith. When we accept Jesus, He will do a good work in and through you...
Thanks for your reply Garth. Yes, indeed you are quite right in that our deeds have a bearing on our salvation several passages in the Bible points that out indeed. But what you seem to suggest is that as long that we have good works nothing else matters.
But reading between the lines of your previous posts it seems to me that you are saying we can be saved by good works alone, that to me my friend is a wrong understanding of what the Bible says. as I understand it says we can only be saved by our belief in Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for our salvation.
So to summarize we are saved by faith and works are good but they can not save us in them self. Works are a way of showing God that we are loyal to Him. But works in them self cannot give us salvation. Salvation is only found in Jesus Christ.
Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Clearly, your Muslim friends cannot be saved by good works.
Good Morning Elijah,
I write to thank you for your response, and yes, you have misunderstood what I have said. But it is ok. However to reiterate, within the Islamic world they believe in God, and that is pursued in having a relationship with Him, one, and two, that belief in God is not only evident in having faith in God to save them from His wrath to come, but it is evident in their daily walk to please and glorify God in all they do.
On the other hand, I saw that you return with this same text from Dr. Luke, and again my friend you have to assess the whole chapter. This verse be known to you has be used and misused. Permit me to point you to the verses 23 - 31. It tells you who gets the worship, who they serve. Moreover, it clarifies Peter's statement that you quote, and God answering with earthquake speaks to God's approval - giving them confidence to speak God's word; letting their own and the Gentile world know that the Messiah has come as was spoke of by the prophets.
The Jews of Jesus time can be akin to Jews who accept Jesus in this modern era.
Thus, my brother believing in God is one thing.God appreciates and accepts you because His Son has completed the mission, but moving beyond that you have to live and live in line with God's principle and you purposing to live for God by serving the poor or the outcasts of society if you so can, having good relations, with you neighbours, engaging the Bible to learn lessons to help you grow spiritually, working to be honest, or speak the truth if you had a challenge with that before and so on. It is a daily walk.
God bless and continue to trust in God and His promises
Thanks for your reply Garth I have pasted those verses you claim will nullify the previous text. I am sorry that I am not able to understand what you are trying to say. To me, it says that we must be saved by the Name of Christ. I know you are good at dismissing texts that do not suit your Paradigm and I guess that is what you are doing here.
Act 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.
Act 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
Act 4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
Act 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
Act 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Act 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Act 4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
Act 4:30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
You say that Allah is same as God but it is false. Allah is the Moon God. What Image do Christianity show you as God Jehovah? None as far as I know besides the 2nd commandment forbids to make a graven image. Seeing You know so much about Islam maybe you can explain why Islam displays a crescent moon on top of their mosks?
The other thing with all this is that you seem to ignore that Christ is equal to God the Father and now have the work as our High Priest who intercedes for us.
Does Mohamad intercede for erring Moslems? As far as I know, Mohamad was not even sure if he was saved himself. So my friend the Islam sect is a much poorer in their relationship to their moon good
For example, the Theif on the cross was saved but where are his good works?
And yes one works we must do is this:
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Yet, you would gladly murder me because my grandmother was Jewish.
Good day Heisenberg, Elijah,
I trust all is well? Thank you for your responses. Heisenberg, no I would not gladly kill you, because of your grandmother's heritage. I get your point where you are coming from, but understand this, within the Islamic world there are varying schools of thought though there are underlying principles that keep the ummah/the Muslim community. Some Muslims took to heart their convictions and interpretations of the Qur'an, their Imam interpretation, and committed atrocities in that regard. Such will have to answer to God when the time comes God willing. However, one must not brand the acts perpetrated by a few to mean that that is the conviction of the masses.For there are a vast majority of Muslims who seek and strive to live a godly life, and which is evident in their interaction with people each day. Note not everyone who say he or she is a Muslim, means they are living up to God mandates. Just as in Christianity or Judaism or any faith one would have persons who will use their faith as garb, or facade, some just act but because of their religious affiliation, the media focus on that and get the masses in a frenzy. In our everyday interaction we come across people who are not like us, but they are under the umbrella of Christian. So I trust this will guide your thought process on the subject.
On the other hand, Elijah to you and many others who are exposed to the same material as you, and looking in, will be of the view that they are worshiping a moon god; but to them they are worshiping God and in their language God is called Allah. They would consider what you are saying as blaspheme because they worship a supreme being and do not ascribe worship to an idol. So if they are worshiping a Supreme Being is who creator of all things, who are you to tell them differently?
The ones who "took to heart" their "interpretations of the Qu'ran" seem to be the ones who committed atrocities. The Qu'ran says, "kill unbelievers", and there are some who then go ahead and kill unbelievers, but you claim that these are the ones who are wrong, and it seems to me that you are saying that the true Muslims who love Allah and are to be saved in the context of our discussion, are the ones who DON'T believe the Qu'ran fully. So are you saying that the good Muslims (the ones who fully believe and act on the words of the Qu'ran) are the ones who have to answer to Allah, and the bad Muslims (the ones who don't fully believe and act on the words of the Qu'ran) are the ones who we should consider are the real worshippers of God?
In no place does Jesus Christ instruct His people to have anything other than love for others, even the ones who reject Him. In many places (in both the Qu'ran and the Hadiths), Islam instructs its people to kill unbelievers and apostates. What you seem to be saying is that in Islam, if one disregards the words of their "book", one is a good Muslim. In Christianity, in contrast, one cannot be a good Christian if one disregards the words of Jesus.
This is a quandary that you have no way out of, Garth. And your words remind me of the clear instruction in Islam that it is okay to make false statements to people who are not believers in Islam. I believe it is called "taqqiyah".
Good day Jack,
I write to thank you for your response, and in response to your argument, no I am not saying anything that you are insinuating.
Let me put this in a Christian context. The Holy Bible says, we must not associate with unbelievers, it says that we must wipe them out from their animals to their elders. We must not give our children to their children in marriage, and we must not partake in anything that is theirs. God is a jealous God, and He has spoken. Moreover The Bible says that we must kill all devil worshipers, and anyone who commits witchcraft or deals with demons and Satan.
Moreover, Jesus says He didn't come to bring peace but a sword, and we are to follow Jesus, and let others know we didn't come to bring peace. For what benefit is there in such things, when so many injustices are happening in our world. what benefit is there in peace when people are spitting in our faces. my brother, It is war against the wicked, against the unbelievers. My brother, we have every right to force our religion on all we perceive as evil doers those that are hungry mouth, destitute, working white and black magic, and all else, and even unbelievers - people of other religions. We have to convert them and bring them in line to what we believe. We have all rights to kill them or condemn to hell because the Bible say that we would judge the world; and, for anyone who was part of our religious group and decide to leave we must disown. Do not even think to help them so much as give them your money or food. Thus, my brother, for all those who have killed in the name of God and are still doing so, and are under the umbrella of Christian or consider/call themselves Christian of any particular faith are going to live with God. For they have fulfilled the word of God as prescribe by the Bible, and they have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.
Clearly, Garth, you should be a politician. Here you are painting Islam as a peace-loving religion who newer harms a fly. and Christianity as murderers and blasphemers. Those texts you are alluding to are from the old testament. When Jesus did take up his ministry He overturned those old teachings.
Garth said: Thus, my brother, for all those who have killed in the name of God and are still doing so, and are under the umbrella of Christian or consider/call themselves Christian of any particular faith are going to live with God. For they have fulfilled the word of God as prescribed by the Bible, and they have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.
Please, Gart show me one text where Jesus said that we shall murder unbelievers or treat them worse than animals?
Some here has pointed out texts that say how the Quran tells the Muslims that they must kill Cristian dogs. This is not a thing you can sweep under the carpet. Christ never said anything like that.
What you need to understand this is not a site to convert Christians to Islam. This site is for SDA made by an SDA. I am sure you will not gain one convert here to Islam. There is a big difference between Christianity and Islam. I admit the Catholic church did kill people who did not conform to the faith of Catholics similar to Islam, but then again the Bible points out that the Catholic church is the spawn of the devil as is Islam. And as I said before the Catholic church worships on a Sunday and of cause the Islam on a Friday. Both those days are kept as spurious sabbaths, moving up as close as they possibly can to the true Sabbath. Both are false religions that do not have any regards to the God of Abraham who did keep the Sabbath.
If you did not know Islam has Ishmael as the boy on the altar that Abraham erected at Mount Moriah, not Isaac as the Bible points out, who do you think is correct? This is of cause more falsehood as they are striving to legitimise their religion. And here you are trying to convince us that Islam is a true religion ordained by God, give me a break!