Good day brothers and sisters, do have a wonderful Sabbath experience.
Today my question to you comes from my study of the underpinning principles that guide Muslims. The question is do you think that Muslims who serve God would live with Him eternally? If Yes or No, why?
ZJ so you think that many from Islam religion (Inspired by Devil) will be in heaven? Have you read Rev 9? A religion based on empire building and sexual domination and slavery of women. Not much kindness there.
I cannot speak for ZJ but the left in the US is now judging people by skin color rather than the content of Character. Things have become so political here that people are judged by political narrative rather than how God would have us see them. I think this is the case here due to political correctness. For example many will say that when you speak out about Islamic abuses, such as tossing gays off a 3 story building, you are a racist. Number one Islam is not a race any more than Catholic is a race of people. Number two Islam is a religious belief held by many types of people from European and Chinese and North African people. To claim that religious beliefs are equal is not true. If you don't know that all religious beliefs are not equal then you do not understand history or the Reformation, which means you are asleep because the Reformation is kind of a big deal right now. Number four If you understand that God does not hold us responsible for being ignorant but rather when we know the truth we should amend our ways and follow the new truth that is given to us. So it would mean that those of other than Christian beliefs would have to be ignorant of truth but following the Holy Spirit by doing right things. This is NOT political but only something that God can judge because he knows what is in a persons heart, we do not know what is in a persons heart.
the left in the US is now judging people by skin color rather than the content of Character.
Sadly been that way for a while Raymond. What's sad is that some of the people leading the narrative that race/skin color seems to determine what you should think are people that occasionaly like to point out how they marched with Dr. King or are "reverends/church leaders" etc.
They just use those monikers to get in the limelight and push their own self promoting narratives. Ironic because it's similar to how white nationalist and other racist groups like to twist things leaders who aren't even associated with them say just to justify their non-noteworthy existence.
"push their own self promoting narratives."
There is a term younger people are using and I like it. It is the term virtue signaling. The conspicuous expression of moral values done primarily with the intent of enhancing standing within a social group. Defense of a Islam falls into what I would term virtue signaling. Islam is about as defensible as Scientology as far as religions go. People hide their heads in the sand when it comes to honor killing, sexual mutilation of girls, beheading. tossing gay people off building, and the killing and enslaving of Christians by certain sects of Islam.
Yeah, for whatever reason it's become more fruitful for them to demonize what they view as greater evils.... conservatives and a sub of the group you mentioned, "devoted" Christians.
According to them the things you pointed out about Islam are just things radical and extremist terrorist do..... I pray Islam never gains control over our constitution due to their naivety .
How things on your end? I do not think it is a sound argument to use Revelation 9 as a viable argument. Moreover, Elijah let me ask you, have you have ever visited and worked with a male or female Muslim or Muslim group? Is it justifiable to broad brush all adherents of Islam as the demeaning things you so name them?
Garth whereas you do not believe Revelation 9 is dealing with Islam, is only your opinion, that stands against most respected Bible commentators, and they are not only SDA either. I have noticed during the time we had discussions your understanding of what the Bible says is naive, to say the least. But then again I guess it is because you love the Islam religion the most, as Jesus said you can not serve two masters you will love the one and despise the other and do we not see that here.
How any one can see Islam as superior to Christianity is beyond me? The religion of oppressing women and killing those who do not believe as you. And if that was not enough Islam has the Friday as a holy day. The Religion of Empire building, the Ottoman Empire was the pinnacle of Islam’s achievements, we have just seen the ISIS who wanted to rebuild the Caliphate miserably fail. And now have been reduced to a terrorist organisation. And Maybe you may want to know why they failed? It is because God show Daniel that no Empire will ever take the whole world. See Daniel 2 There was Four empires Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. God said many attempts would be made to build another Empire but they would not succeed.
How you can see Allah is favouring His religion of Islam I fail to understand. And it seems like you think Islam Is equal to Christianity, maybe you think Islam is superior?
Good day Elijah,
What's up my brother? How are things on your end?
In response to your argument, the Bible commentators are also given their opinion or thought on what was revealed to John, and I say to you and all the Bible commentators that if what was revealed to John have not commensurated with God's kingdom being established and which indicate that Jesus should be here to start wage war on the oppressors and Satan and his imps, and given that they are arguing that most of God's wrath has passed and we are still here, advancement are occurring, people are living, the islands and continents are still intact, I believe that they should reconsider their position. For me, I would continue to hold the faith and walk in God's way till He says it's time.
Elijah, I can't speak for all Muslims but there are few who hold to their interpretation and derived customs and practices that are outlandish and they have their reward. That is they and God would have to deal. But on a general, Islam promotes respect and highest regard for their women, their mothers, sisters and other female relatives. However, as in any society not everyone or household is the same. You would find that each family unit runs functional or dysfunctional. Moreover, one can argue that he or she is a Jew, or Christian or Muslim but that doesn't mean that he or she, & irrespective of his or her faith, is living up to all the mandates of their religion. Each individual individual in a family is unique. In Islam the parents strive to guide their child/children in the path of God and are consistent and the father lead by example. They have a community that strive on creating that environment of support for their own.A system where their child/children do not have to be contaminated by the school system that so exist to today. It is a page that one can take a look at.
My friend I cannot tell you what to believe or do. You have the power of choice. However, permit me to ask you to examine and see what you can learn from this faith. I am not arguing one is superior or the other. I am arguing that given that we serve God may we all turn to Him and worship Him. Almighty God most merciful, most beneficient, make us Heaven ready and your Son said once we believe and accept Him our names are in the Lamb's book of life, so help us to not turn back to our wicked ways or lifestyle if we use to practice such. Help us to strive to live faithfully in Jesus name.
Garth said: I am arguing that given that we serve God may we all turn to Him and worship Him. Almighty God most merciful, most beneficient, make us Heaven ready and your Son said once we believe and accept Him our names are in the Lamb's book of life, so help us to not turn back to our wicked ways or lifestyle if we use to practice such. Help us to strive to live faithfully in Jesus name.
Its no good Garth you can not mix the Quran with the Bible. The Quran is inspired by the Devil while the Bible is inspired by God.
You may say you are serving God but I am not so sure You seem to have a poor understanding of what the Bible says. This text should point out what I am trying to tell you.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
As you may be able to see it is not enough to think you are serving God, but you must make sure that God Knows you. How you can equate serving Allah with serving God is beyond me? Truly Allah is the Devil, as it says in the Bible, demanding good works of his adherents for salvation, really Gart I had hoped you would understand that good works is not the basis for salvation.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
The only way to Heaven is by Jesus Blood and nothing else. Not by good works as you seem to suggest.
Good day Elijah,
I trust you are having a wonderful Sabbath thus far, yes?
My friend, I did say that you have to do good works such as feed and care the poor, visit the prisoners, working with new members, helping the homeless, and all manner of people rehabilitate and come to serve God and call Him blessed - that their own. I did say to you and other respondents that this is one of the main elements in your Christian journey. According to the biblical narrative "Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!. I believe I also said that one accepting or appreciating the act of love done by God - that is in sacrificing His Son - that one has the choice to turn from his or her destructive lifestyle to turn to the living God and live or to continue on his or her destructive path and die. I believe I also said to you that one has to work on him or herself in being an overcomer if their is/are a habit(s) they struggle with and they need the help of the spiritually mature if needs be. I believe I also said that one has to be a fisher of men.I also said to you that Jews and Muslims believe in God and that they are bound for Heaven. I also said that Muslim respect and honour Jesus. Yes they even believe that Jesus would be coming again; and I believe I said to you and fellow respondents that not all adherents of the main religions would make it to Heaven.
Moreover, I believe I also said to you that in the East God is known in their tongue by the name Allah. That is the people's language and name for God. As I ask you prior, if you were to attend An Adventist Church in the Middle East or Indonesia, for example, and where the name for God is Allah, would say that the people their are of the devil, and Satan worshipers? Is that not an ignorant and disrespectful statement? Moreover, given that the Bible and the Qur'an has a strong correlation, would it not to be fitting that one should say that the two are inspired by devil as you say?
My friend, in conclusion, I thank God for giving His only begotten Son Jesus the Christ, and I thank God that the veil in the temple so that I can come to God directly. Thank You God. As the biblical authors say, I say to you be you reconcile to God by accepting the act of love committed on our behalf. Thank you Yeshua for coming willingly and coming to do your Father's will.
True Garth you have said a lot of things, a politician would be proud of your ability to turn black into white.
I have not been to a middle east SDA Church so I have no idea about what they say. How you pronounce Gods name may not be so important. What you believe is of uttermost importance, as Jesus made very clear. We know for sure that Muslims do not believe in God the way Christians do.
The basic thing is that you need to partake of the holy supper to be part of Jesus people (and believe what it represents). Do your Muslim friends partake of the holy supper? I think not they have Ramadan not a thing prescribed by Jesus. They have a pilgrimage to the holy stone in Mecha. These things are works Garth the Bible is clear works alone will not save you.
Your original Question was if Muslims would be heaven bound because of the good things they do, was it not? The answer is No because they do not acknowledge Christ in the way they need to believe in Him. Not in the holy stone! But you keep insisting that their good works are good enough to get them to heaven. I do not think it is Garth. And it seems like you are the only one on this board that think so.
Good day Elijah,
first my original question is do you think that Muslims who serve God would live with Him eternally? I was not speaking about good things they do, I was speaking in regard to the relationship they have with God. I use that word interchangeably with working for God. So my apology if you misunderstood the question. For many have a relationship with God and they live to honour God in what they do.
Contrary to your view, permit me to share with you that in the Eastern hemisphere of the world where Islam is mainstay, they take God very seriously just as how Christian on the Western and Eastern side take God seriously and get offended when people speak about God out of turn