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To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." 
Isaiah 8:20
Women’s ordination today is as popular as liberal social issues are in American Christianity and politics. The Seventh-day Adventist Church, particularly some Conferences and Unions in the NAD have been pushing hard for women ordination in disregard to the General Conference's authority and overwhelming vote in the opposite direction. But ultimately what is at stake here are not votes, by-laws, policies or actions by this or other Conference. No one would question that 11 Divisions voted against women ordination and only 2 voted in favor two GCs ago. But that vast majority IS the body of Christ deciding the role of women with "full ecclesiastical authority" (ordination according to the Spirit of Prophecy). However that started by slow escalation of authority from ordination of female elders and  deaconesses, so now leaders use that as justification for equal ordination of women to the pastoral ministry. Little by little we gave away the beauty and simplicity of the Scriptures for complexities and fluidity of policies.
What is at stake here is the integrity of the Seventh-day Adventist Church core of solid, Biblical unshakable set of fundamental beliefs. #1: The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history. However the part wants to command the body and they are doing it because they can…unfortunately. By pushing, twisting and turning every piece of rule to accommodate their intent these leaders of some Conferences and Unions will vote after vote, meeting after meeting continue until their goal is accomplished. How many times do we need to vote "No" to women's ordination? The answer is simple: We'll continue to bring it up for vote until it becomes a "Yes", starting with female elders, deaconesses and then pastors. Brothers and Sisters, this will deeply divide the Church, not bring unity, because the vast majority of the body of Christ (the vast population of 11 Divisions) does not believe is this unbiblical, un-Adventist and unseemly fallacy.

This is a sign of something deeper and more pervasive. At the heart of the issue is that truth is no longer absolute. The Scriptures are no longer the infallible revelation of His will. Not according to some leaders. The discernment between truth and lie is no longer a bright line but a wide gray zone that is getting wider by the day. So wide that people do not see any difference in the sanctity of priesthood well written and articulated in the Bible from another form based on human wicked thinking. Just because someone is or was a great leader, male or female, that does not give him/her the right to officiate in the temple. Remember when that unfortunate man tried to catch the ark falling off the cart? He actually died on the spot. Why? Simple: God told them not to touch the ark. Period! 
Clear truth is no longer acceptable. That is too radical nowadays as the church has "evolved" and the firmness of pillars of principles are no longer that firm. After all, we need to be flexible with our cultural diversity. As if the Bible was written with versions for social adaptation...We now have human rationalization use of scriptures in lieu exegesis. Now society commands and demands truth to adapt and we say: Amen! Even at the cost of changing the real meaning of words such as "discrimination" which somehow became an ugly word although is expressed in the Bible abundantly. There is the saved and the lost. There is sheep and the goat. There is the holy and unholy. There are those that love Him and keep His commandments and those that want to do away with His commandments. There are those that do the will of God and there are those that follow their own will. God throughout the Bible makes clear distinction between those who follow Him and those who follow their own ways.   
This push for women ordination is based on popular social forces other than the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy. The misconception is that although man and women are the same before God they have different and distinct roles, therefore they are not equal in the latter sense. We have become a church that embraces social issues ("not mission…") that plagues popular Christianity rather than the solid, strong Biblical truth centered church with a focus on the three angel’s message.  

What has made some leaders in church wonder off our basics? Think about the quality and formation of our leaders these days. Look honestly at our progress in America in terms of baptisms, church growth and expansion that has been nothing short of a disappointing and utterly failure. Mathematically we are not able to even keep our own children in the church, so it is understandable why some are desperate. We all should be! Now, in spite of an anemic baptismal record (Hispanics aside) the two Divisions that are performing terribly compared to the rest of the world (US and Europe) coincidentally are the ones pushing hard for ordination of women. That off course is in disregard for the vast majority of the body that has this terrible habit of insisting on sticking with the Bible and requiring nothing less than a "thou sayest the Lord" or "it is written"! It just happens that these areas are the ones growing by leaps and bounds!  That ought to tell something to Pastors that use little or no Bible and Spirit of Prophecy in their sermons, but rather make Internet their center of thoughtless sermon preparation.  

Having a popular false idea muddying our truth is nothing new. One single popular idea concerning Daniel 8:14 that the earth was the sanctuary was enough for the great deception of the Millerite movement. One little mistake can sour the entire truth. But if the Church leadership can use a set of poorly articulated, social pleaser, unfounded arguments with pseudo theological grounds, then we can prepare ourselves for the wave of arguments that will come against Sanctuary and primarily against the Sabbath, because enemies of truth have been using the same reasoning and rationale for several decades. The fact that there are no women ordained to priesthood in the Bible is the same reason why there is no Sunday as a day of keeping: It is just not there! In the end, if you can ordain a woman without solid Biblical reason to have "full ecclesiastical authority" and in vain worship Him, then you can keep Sunday on the same grounds.

This fear of discrimination based on gender and what others will say about us is an open door for lawlessness. The next question then is: What types of gender are we referring to? In my opinion, this is setting the path to apostasy and heresy. Forget what we think, or what policies say. The social and popular Christianity will dictate some of our leader’s next steps again in a near future - God help us! They already found the way. 

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Yes but uuumm MFG God tried twice to choose a man BEFORE He gave EGW her visions.

Yes EGW held authority but she was neither arrogant or pushy about it. Like wise we should do the same.


the men dont seem to bat a thousand

GOD could have given it to a third man

and wqe see this in biblical history

its always given to someone else cause the firstborn rejects it

so GOD goes somewhere else

it still could have given it to a dude

billions of people on earth at the time and GOD cant find a third dude?

no no







ok it was one man

 sorry got confused oopsie

God gave the prophetic gift to a white man, a black man and then a woman.

There have been women prophets previously, including when there was a male Levitical priesthood.

However, none of this has anything to do with womens' ordination. The argument has never been around whether women can preach or whether women have a role in the spreading of the Gospel.

This issue is solely and only around whether the role of ordained pastor is for men only. 

That is human reasoning.
I agree. It should neither. Starting with with those proposing otherwise as they are finding all trick in the book to push this. There is way to massage truth but speak it plainly. Let our communication be Yea,yea; nay,nay. Today we find this theory that truth as it is written no longer fits our times. The word of God is eternal.
Now you are evading and re-writing history which is a denial and gratuitous assertion that may be equally gratuitously denied. The facts are there so assertion with no Biblical basis is pointless.



That is absolutly correct. 

God can call anyone He wants to, to be a prophet, i.e. a spokesperson for Him.  However, this does not give humans that same right.  When humans decree that they can change God's requirements for ordination, they are doing just as Satan and Eve did, attempting to be equal with God.  Their end will be the same as Satan's will be, the Lake of FIre. 


That is an awful price to pay for a little applause by the women today.  Plus the blood of those women who are lost becasue these false pastors refused to take a stand for right, will be on their shoulders.  Not a pretty picture to look forward to.


Maranatha :)

Hi Ray I would highly appreciate if you can give us a good definition of an ordained pastor? What are his functions consist of ? and relate the experience of a man pastor's work! It is just a little homework that I requesting you to do as I know you have got the passion to do it and to share with us here. Thanking you SAbrina


Any pastor is to be the shepherd of the flock/church.  This is basic and fundamental.  As part of that calling, they are to:

  1. Teach - this included both in a classroom setting as well as from the pulpit.
  2. Set an example - by their lives they should be an example of a Christian.
  3. Lead - guide the chuch in its business affairs.
  4. Counsel - Help people to work out their problems between themselves and God.
  5. Apply discipline - Follow the counsel in Matthew 18 when problems arise in the church, as they unfortunatly do. 
  6. Comfort - Stand by the side of those who are suffering from sickness or loss of loved ones.
  7. Be a Mouthpiece for the Lord - stand ready to be used by the Holy Spirit to point out sin and remind the flock of judgment to come as well as how to be ready for that great day.
  8. Be an Evangalist - Presenting the gospel to the world is an important part of his duties.

This is in brief the work of the pastor.  Not all inclusive, but this is the overall picture. 

While I know you did not ask for this, however, in this context, let's look at what a woman pastor can do from this list.

  1. Teach - A woman can do this as well as any man.  I have sat under many a fine woman teacher, from Grade school to Seminary.
  2. Set an example - No woman who has been ordained can do this.  For her example of going contrary to God's instruction is no different then being a Lesbian, a cheat, a theif, a murder, etc.  Oh, she may not become involved in those other sins, but one sin is as great as another and God has listed accepting ordination, when one is not qualified, as a sin.  See 1 Kings 13:33, 34.
  3. Lead - A woman can do this as well as any man.  However, since those who have accepted ordination are not following God's plan, the direction that they will be leading will be highly suspect.
  4. Counsel - Again, women are good at giving counsel.  However, it has been my experience that many are no better in taking counsel then some men.  This seems to be a human issue.
  5. Apply discipline - Can anyone, regardless of gender, apply discipline when they are not willing to come under discipline?
  6. Comfort - Yes, in fact woman probably excel in this area.  However, if they have accepted ordination, there will be a very real danger that they will comfort the evil doer too.
  7. Be a Mouthpiece for the Lord - only on rare occasions do we have record of someone being used as a mouthpiece for the Lord who was not following the Lord.  One of those examples is a donkey.  The Holy Spirit cannot use someone who is in open rebellion against God, except as an example of how not to do things. 
  8. Be an Evangalist - In order to fulfill the gospel commition of Matthew 28:19, 20
        "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,  [20] teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."  Matthew 28:19-20 (ESV) 
     They will have to make disciples.  One cannot make someone else a disciple, unless they have already become a disciple.  One cannot be a disciple if they pick and choose what they will do.  They are to teach and practice "all that I have commanded you."  This includes the standards God has established to be an ordained pastor.  If humans think the can change that, they are no better then the Catholics who thought to change the times and laws. 


So, no woman can in fact fulfill all of the functions of a pastor.  The idea that just being a good preacher makes them elgible for ordination is is like saying that a car with only one tire on it is a fully functioning automobile.  It takes all of the qualifications to be a pastor, not just one.

The path of ordination starts with being a local elder.  The local elder is virtually the same as a pastor.  The major difference is that his ordination is only for the local church, while a pastor's ordination is for any church.  However, even a local elder's ordination is honored in any other church he may attend, so in fact, there is very little difference, or at least there should only be that.

OK, this is a man made distinction and I'm not sure it can be supported biblically.  If it were consistent, then a man should be ordained again if he moves into the conference office, and again if he moves to the Union and again if he moves to the division and to the GC.  However, this is not done.  Why not?  Oh, I know of some  of the "reasons" given, but again, I'm not sure that they could stand up to the closest examination.  But, that is not something that those pushing for women to be ordained are really concerened about.

In short, the real issue is this.

"Will we do exactly what God has asked us to do, without question or argumentation, just becasue we recognize that He is God and that we love Him supremely?"

It makes no difference what the topic might be.  Diet, sex, what beverages we use, marriage, raising children, church discipline, ordination, life work, use of our resources, etc., etc., etc.  Will we subordinate our opinions to what God has perscribed?  Unless we are really willing to do that, we do not qualify to be ordained, (or in fact even be a Christian) no matter what our gender might be. 

It is for sure, that no women who rises to that level of submission to God's revealed will, will seek ordination.

Maranatha :)

Thank you Ray for the homework you did and share that with us here. 

Set an example - by their lives they should be an example of a Christian.

Sorry but these days there have been lot of ordained pastors who are divorced..? are they considered as example?

Correct. The issue here is not diminishing women in any way, shape or form. From that same perspective there are many functions no attribute to man. God ultimately decides.


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