My Opinion on Women Ordination

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Isaiah 8:20

Women’s ordination today is as popular as liberal social issues are in American Christianity and politics. The Seventh-day Adventist Church, particularly some Conferences and Unions in the NAD have been pushing hard for women ordination in disregard to the General Conference's authority and overwhelming vote in the opposite direction. But ultimately what is at stake here are not votes, by-laws, policies or actions by this or other Conference. No one would question that 11 Divisions voted against women ordination and only 2 voted in favor two GCs ago. But that vast majority IS the body of Christ deciding the role of women with "full ecclesiastical authority" (ordination according to the Spirit of Prophecy). However that started by slow escalation of authority from ordination of female elders and deaconesses, so now leaders use that as justification for equal ordination of women to the pastoral ministry. Little by little we gave away the beauty and simplicity of the Scriptures for complexities and fluidity of policies.

What is at stake here is the integrity of the Seventh-day Adventist Church core of solid, Biblical unshakable set of fundamental beliefs. #1: The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history. However the part wants to command the body and they are doing it because they can…unfortunately. By pushing, twisting and turning every piece of rule to accommodate their intent these leaders of some Conferences and Unions will vote after vote, meeting after meeting continue until their goal is accomplished. How many times do we need to vote "No" to women's ordination? The answer is simple: We'll continue to bring it up for vote until it becomes a "Yes", starting with female elders, deaconesses and then pastors. Brothers and Sisters, this will deeply divide the Church, not bring unity, because the vast majority of the body of Christ (the vast population of 11 Divisions) does not believe is this unbiblical, un-Adventist and unseemly fallacy.

This is a sign of something deeper and more pervasive. At the heart of the issue is that truth is no longer absolute. The Scriptures are no longer the infallible revelation of His will. Not according to some leaders. The discernment between truth and lie is no longer a bright line but a wide gray zone that is getting wider by the day. So wide that people do not see any difference in the sanctity of priesthood well written and articulated in the Bible from another form based on human wicked thinking. Just because someone is or was a great leader, male or female, that does not give him/her the right to officiate in the temple. Remember when that unfortunate man tried to catch the ark falling off the cart? He actually died on the spot. Why? Simple: God told them not to touch the ark. Period!

Clear truth is no longer acceptable. That is too radical nowadays as the church has "evolved" and the firmness of pillars of principles are no longer that firm. After all, we need to be flexible with our cultural diversity. As if the Bible was written with versions for social adaptation...We now have human rationalization use of scriptures in lieu exegesis. Now society commands and demands truth to adapt and we say: Amen! Even at the cost of changing the real meaning of words such as "discrimination" which somehow became an ugly word although is expressed in the Bible abundantly. There is the saved and the lost. There is sheep and the goat. There is the holy and unholy. There are those that love Him and keep His commandments and those that want to do away with His commandments. There are those that do the will of God and there are those that follow their own will. God throughout the Bible makes clear distinction between those who follow Him and those who follow their own ways.

This push for women ordination is based on popular social forces other than the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy. The misconception is that although man and women are the same before God they have different and distinct roles, therefore they are not equal in the latter sense. We have become a church that embraces social issues ("not mission…") that plagues popular Christianity rather than the solid, strong Biblical truth centered church with a focus on the three angel’s message.

What has made some leaders in church wonder off our basics? Think about the quality and formation of our leaders these days. Look honestly at our progress in America in terms of baptisms, church growth and expansion that has been nothing short of a disappointing and utterly failure. Mathematically we are not able to even keep our own children in the church, so it is understandable why some are desperate. We all should be! Now, in spite of an anemic baptismal record (Hispanics aside) the two Divisions that are performing terribly compared to the rest of the world (US and Europe) coincidentally are the ones pushing hard for ordination of women. That off course is in disregard for the vast majority of the body that has this terrible habit of insisting on sticking with the Bible and requiring nothing less than a "thou sayest the Lord" or "it is written"! It just happens that these areas are the ones growing by leaps and bounds! That ought to tell something to Pastors that use little or no Bible and Spirit of Prophecy in their sermons, but rather make Internet their center of thoughtless sermon preparation.

Having a popular false idea muddying our truth is nothing new. One single popular idea concerning Daniel 8:14 that the earth was the sanctuary was enough for the great deception of the Millerite movement. One little mistake can sour the entire truth. But if the Church leadership can use a set of poorly articulated, social pleaser, unfounded arguments with pseudo theological grounds, then we can prepare ourselves for the wave of arguments that will come against Sanctuary and primarily against the Sabbath, because enemies of truth have been using the same reasoning and rationale for several decades. The fact that there are no women ordained to priesthood in the Bible is the same reason why there is no Sunday as a day of keeping: It is just not there! In the end, if you can ordain a woman without solid Biblical reason to have "full ecclesiastical authority" and in vain worship Him, then you can keep Sunday on the same grounds.

This fear of discrimination based on gender and what others will say about us is an open door for lawlessness. The next question then is: What types of gender are we referring to? In my opinion, this is setting the path to apostasy and heresy. Forget what we think, or what policies say. The social and popular Christianity will dictate some of our leader’s next steps again in a near future - God help us! They already found the way.

See: http://womenordinationsda.blogspot.com/

GC Pleads with Dissenting Unions

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Daughter of God on July 30, 2012 at 11:31pm

@John

Good quotes!

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Permalink Reply by Freedom In Him on July 31, 2012 at 12:40am

All I want is to believe what God says..I have loads to learn...I want my thoughts to be what He wants.

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Permalink Reply by Sarah Sulton on July 31, 2012 at 2:47am

In a MARRIAGE the wife is in subjection to her husband as unto the Lord, with the Lord being FIRST. There is no issue there. They are to be one flesh...no every female with every male.

Your Spiritual Gifts or use of them comes from the Lord and are independent of the spouse (husband or wife) or the family and He must come first. (Luke 14:16-22; Matthew 6:24; Matthew 10:37).

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Permalink Reply by Ray Phillips on July 30, 2012 at 8:23pm

Sarah

You error in not knowing the scriptures. The Greek word for " husband" in Ephesians is the Greek word: "Aner." This word can mean, depending on the context; "human being, man/male, husband."

In this setting, the context is the husband wife relationship, so it has to be husband, not either male or human being.

It is true that in Genesis that "mankind" was created as "male and female." That in order for a being to be complete, both must be present.

However, when God assigned the role of priest/elder/pastor/deacon, He only assigned that to the male part of the human race, not to all of the human race. He clearly labels ordaining anyone else as sin. See 1 Kings 13:33, 34.

Satan has controverted this point since Eden and those who are following Satan's ideas are still controverting this part of God's plan today. No true child of God will contend for women to be ordained.

Maranatha :)
Ray

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Permalink Reply by Ray Phillips on July 31, 2012 at 10:53am

Alexander

The answer to your question, I believe, is found in this comment God made.

"Then the Lord God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him." Genesis 2:18 (ESV)

The addition of a woman in his life was to bring completion. Something that many of us has found to be the case when God brings a woman into our lives, as He did into mine. It indeed made me more complete.

It is like one time when I purchased an original painting for my wife's birthday. She was close friends with the artist, so between the time I purchased the painting, which she did not know about, and her birthday, she would talk with the painter and suggest ways that she thought would make it more like a scene from her childhood that she treasured. So, when her birthday came, it was complete as she desired it to be.

Now, the additions and modifications were not perfect by themselves. The canvass would have looked terrible with only those changes that were added. The picture needed both the original painting, plus the changes to be considered by her to be perfect.

So too with the creation of humans. God created the main picture, Adam, but He saw that in order for him to reach perfection, he needed a woman to stand by his side. Not for him to lord it over her, nor for to have her lord it over him. They were to work as one.

At this point, there was no need for a priesthood, as they could talk to God face to face. It was only after sin entered that a priesthood became necessary. So, the arrangement in Eden has no bearing on the priesthood in any way.

Maranatha :)
Ray

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Permalink Reply by Daughter of God on July 30, 2012 at 11:39pm

@Ray

Good point.. I had wanted to mention that earlier, but didn't have time to check up on the Greek and make sure, because I've been getting ready to take my kids camping tomorrow.. I'm glad you know your Greek. :0)

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Permalink Reply by Sarah Sulton on July 31, 2012 at 12:50am

http://www.adventistonline.com/xn/detail/1451550:Comment:3267002

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Permalink Reply by Sarah Sulton on July 31, 2012 at 12:48am

Ray,

I pray that you will release the hatred that is coming out of your spirit so that you can understand what the Word says...I am afraid that it is you Ray who "error in not knowing the scriptures"--or your Greek.

Ephesians 5:22-31 (for context)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh."

This is very clear at face value that the usage of "husband" is referring to the male a woman marries--and not every man...simple enough for a child to comprehend.

But let's go to the rest of the Greek ....First:

ἀνήρ

1) with reference to sex

a) of a male

b) of a husband

c) of a betrothed or future husband

2) with reference to age, and to distinguish an adult man from a boy

3) any male

4) used generically of a group of both men and women

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G43...

How do we know which this applies to? The Scriptures clearly delineates that usage of ἀνήρ is not just referring to any man by the phrase before it:

ἴδιος

1) pertaining to one's self, one's own, belonging to one's self

Which can only mean ONE'S HUSBAND. Which means, as was ACCURATELY STATED in my post.

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Permalink Reply by Ray Phillips on July 31, 2012 at 11:03am

Sarah

You posted:

Ray,

I pray that you will release the hatred that is coming out of your spirit so that you can understand what the Word says...I am afraid that it is you Ray who "error in not knowing the scriptures"--or your Greek.

First of all, I went back to try and find the post I responded to and was not sure which one it was. This is one thing I do not like about this forum is that answers can become disconnected from the questions. I feel that much of the animosity that arises is from this factor. This is why, much of the time, I try to quote what a person says in order to connect the two thoughts. Something I failed to do here and I am sorry.

If the post I found was the one I responded to, in rereading it, I did apparently misread it and for that I also appologize.

I say this, for in the above post that I quoted from above, I do not see any significant area that we disagree on or any difference from what I was trying to communicate. The only factor that I can detect is that I misread your post, and for that I again appologize. It was not an intential thing.

Maranatha :)
Ray