EGW did prophecy things that didnt happen. Does this not render her as a false prophet? the main one is when she siad Jesus would return in her time. We all know she now sleeps until the resurrection. How can we justify this failed prophecy?
bro i am witnessing to folks and when i tell them i am sda they deem me as a member of a cult because in thier words EGW is a false prophet. what you wrote isnt really helpful. i cant respond to skeptics with what you posted. i need a full explanation on these matters. GOD BLESS!
This is a tired old explanation.
First, Jonah's prophecy had to do with destruction, one in which Christ is always been likely to provide mercy. Ellen Whites involved the second coming, a date which is never conditional (Dan 11:29] At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.)
Because people are afraid to say that Ellen White could be wrong, or question the legitimacy of her prophetic claim; these poor excuses continue to be made.
Exactly Herbert. Well said. These end times, Christ is coming, and we expect people to take a church seriously when they are using a prophet where they see errors, to them we are not teaching truth. The leaders don't want to say Ellen White could be wrong and shift to bible, bible messages, so people will listen. Many will not take us seriously because we are not relying on God. Why not live for Christ alone. It is time to make Him our all in all. If you want to lean on EGW do so after you have leaned on Christ and made Him number one. If you do this, you will have no desire to go back to her.
Our Ministry will be that much greater.
The GNT is a Catholic Translation it has a totally different view on the last days events than SDA has If you was to look at the NIV for example you will see it does not talk about Christs return at all.
29 “At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time the outcome will be different from what it was before. NIV
I guess you would not have read the GC going on what you so dis honestly say here. It seems like you are able to fool some but not me.
Jay Clearly it is up to you what you believe about EGW. And as Jason says she needs not to be defended and you should look at the EGW estate. The link that Jason provided will get you there.
You will find people even calling them self SDA who do not think that EGW was inspired, as well as they reject doctrines that the Pioneers hammered out with long and involved Bible Studies. Did you know that EGW was sitting in on those but as she could not understand what was discussed she could not help. Only when there was a dead lock God Gave her a vision to help out.
Many well meaning SDA have been misusing the SDA Prophet and Doctrines, and in that way have given her and the church a bad name. But no point in crying over spilled milk we must do the best we can with what we got.
As you may know we are to use the Bible to evangelize not EGW. Her writings was meant for the SDA mainly not for evangelizing.
The Ellen White Estate link would do a good job of explaining conditional prophecies.
When one understands that then they'll realize that the fulfillment of the prophecy is dependant on us, hence the failure is on us not the prophet or the word of God.
You would see from these verses that God promised that Israel would return to a state of high privilege among the heathen nations. However this never happened. Why? Israel never did arise and shine. They never shared the gospel with the heathen nations around them.
However this chapter is not a false prophecy. While it was not fulfilled by the nation of Israel it is being fulfilled by spiritual Israel.
We have to realize that there are a lot of things that happen that God did not desire to happen. For instance Jesus said when prophesying the doom of Israel that how he would have protected them like a hen her chicks.
The same applies to Ellen White's prediction of Christ coming in her day. The Bible says the gospel shall be preached in all the world, then the end comes. Had the church risen to the work in the 1800s like they could have, Christ would have came.
But still today Christ is preparing a people that will stand faithful and finish the work. So while the direct people God intended for the prophecy to apply to failed to follow through. God will have someone still do the work.
One thing to consider though. That topic of Ellen White and prophecy will require an understanding of the investigative judgment, the great controversy, the role of the spirit of prophecy etc. So if these are introductory studies that might be a big jump.
What you can do is offer to go through all of our beliefs, a full Bible study without using a single Ellen White quote to show that all our beliefs are Bible based. Once they're solid on our beliefs being Bible based then you can do the study on Ellen White's role in the last day church and add the clarification on this topic.
The reason for this is most religious groups with a false prophet first get people to believe their prophet first. Then when they study the Bible they're already to trained to look at the Bible with a bias to meet the words of their prophet. When people realize that you can get all of our beliefs without a single Ellen White quote, they would then be pepared to understand that she simply is magnifying what is there, not adding to the Bible. That's ofte the approach ministries like Amazing Facts and Secrets Unsealed use when doing studies.
Noel Browne said,
…the fulfillment of the prophecy is dependant on us, hence the failure is on us not the prophet or the word of God.
I’m having a difficult time understanding what you are saying here. Prophecy is God’s revealed secretes; His vision and His plan which He reveals to the prophet. God plans will come to fruition, His word will not return to Him void, but will accomplish that which He have said. If the prophecy fail, the prophet then is a false prophet.
You fail to understand Isaiah 60, it is not a conditional prophecy, it is a prophecy concerning the coming of the Messiah and the kingdom of God that will realized at his coming. This is something that the prophet speaks about throughout the entire book of Isaiah. Let’s start in Isaiah 59:20 because it sets the stage for the next chapter.
Isaiah 59:20And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
The Redeemer (Christ) shall come to Zion. Zion is another name for Jerusalem, Isaiah speaks about Zion and Jerusalem in chapter 2:3
….For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
I think the NET Bible renders it in a very beautifully by saying,
For Zion will be the center for moral instruction; the LORD will issue edicts from Jerusalem.
This is what is about to happen, God shares this with His prophet Isaiah, Jerusalem and the whole world is about the change forever.
Isaiah 60:1 ARISE, be enlightened, O Jerusalem: for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. Douay-Rheims Bible.
NET Bible"Arise! Shine! For your light arrives! The splendor of the LORD shines on you!
What I’m sharing is something that many people do not know or understand, but this is what the Bible says.
Psalm 102:15So the nations will fear the name of the LORD And all the kings of the earth Your glory. 16For the LORD has built up Zion; He has appeared in His glory. 17He has regarded the prayer of the destitute And has not despised their prayer.…
He has appeared in His glory. In God’s mind this has already happed, that’s what prophecy is; God revealed secrets. I also like the Message Bible it give a broad vision of things.
Psalm 102:15The godless nations will sit up and take notice —see your glory, worship your name—When God rebuilds Zion, when he shows up in all his glory, When he attends to the prayer of the wretched. He won’t dismiss their prayer.
Now Isaiah 60:2 is much more understandable.
2"For behold, darkness will cover the earth And deep darkness the peoples; But the LORD will rise upon you (Zion) And His glory will appear upon you. 3"Nations will come to your light, And kings to the brightness of your rising.
Isaiah says this in chapter 2
2And it shall come to pass in the end of days, [that] the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow unto it. 3And many peoples shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and Jehovah's word from Jerusalem.
I won’t go into the remainder of the chapter, just wanted to open a few things relating to it.
JohnB if it upsets your apple cart there is a problem. You can't even see the importance of the responses and how they can all tie in.
As in the days of Noe, so shall it be in the coming of the Lord, we all chose to follow the majority and not the truth. This is not meant to bash EGW, but if you see my belief in God as a problem because of the problems I have SOP I can say the same to you. The concern I addressed, which is one of the reasons I am so passionate because EGW is a stumbling block for this body. For me though, I would prefer to go to scriptures to teach the truth, and bring a person to the truth then losing them to the world.
I guess you just prefer to brainwash people to believe in EGW. That does not get the same result. You see from my experience, when I teach people to love God, based on my instructions, people come to the truth and are forever changd, because they develop relationship with GOD, not EGW.