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Hello!

Within the last few days, a few posts have referred to a new position statement taken by the Biblical Research Institute regarding the lunar Sabbath teaching.

Just this last weekend, a friend of mine attended Garden Road SDA Church in Calgary, Canada, where Pastor Ishmael Ali said he just came back from a ministerial meeting and that we have an official position that the BRI has made on the heresy of the lunar Sabbath calendar that he could present and he would do so next week. Pastor Bob also posted, "I was at pastors' meetings just this week in which Gerhard Pfandl addressed this theory and presented the evidence as to why it is not Biblically tenable and why the Biblical Research Institute has rejected it." He has graciously promised to post the full critique when he gets it. (Pastor Bob - are you in the same conference in Canada?)

I have wished for some time to hear an official stance on the lunar Sabbath from the BRI and was happy to hear what Pastor Ali and Pastor Bob had to say. In my eagerness to obtain the information, I just now called the BRI and spoke to a lovely lady by the name of Brenda Flemmer. I asked if I could receive this information and she said, "No, there is no official church stance. There are GUIDLINES, but nothing has ever been voted on. I do not know if they will vote on it - I have not heard of anything along those lines."

While this was very disappointing to me, I would like to offer a gentle word of caution to everyone involved in the disucssion of so vital a topic as the holy Sabbath: We are not the Roman Catholic Church and the Biblical Research Institute is NOT the "Holy Office for the Defense of the Faith" (aka, the Inquisition.) Angel Rodriguez is not the Grand Inquisitor whose decrees should be taken as the Word of God Almighty. As we all must answer for ourselves at the judgment bar of God, there certainly is room to allow each other religious liberty in our beliefs. Some of the name calling that has occured, "lunies", etc. does not honor the belief which the one doing the name-calling claims to espouse.

Whether you are for or against the lunar Sabbath belief, let us all allow each other sufficient liberty of consciense to study for ourselves what we believe. The findings of the BRI should be taken under consideration in the context of one's OWN study - not as the final end-all-be-all of the discussion, for that would make us no different from the Ropman Catholics who do not feel the need to study for themselves as they just have to believe what the Grand Inquisttor has studied out FOR them.

I, personally, would like to see an official position taken on the lunar Sabath. If any of you agree, I would encourage you to call the BRI and request it. Of course, this can only be done by the GC in session under vote, but there would certainly be opportunity for that iat this next session this year. The phone number of the BRI is 301-680-6790.

In the loving and gracious spirit of Christ, Brothers and Sisters, let us study for ourselves.

God bless!

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so where is the proof ? the incredible evidence? we haven't seen this, we have asked many pastors and they have not given any answers..no proof...no Bible answers...not even a bit. We have published everything (not me but others who have the ability)

go to 4angelspublications...

go to worldslastchance

check out the 3 months in a row on You tube

you can see it all out there for all to see, we are not hiding anything...

Jesus said "I have done nothing in secret" His truth is not a secret, he is truth.
Heather,
Aren't you the one that needs proof? There has been much proof given about the continuous 7-day cycle of the week. There has been much evidence given about the basis of the seven-day week and the Sabbath being the creation week. Read the threads... with an open mind to the simple Bible truth.

To believe what you are suggesting I would have to throw out the command "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God" It doesn't say any amount of days other than seven for us to calculate the Sabbath. In the system you are suggesting there are more than 7 days in some weeks, right? So THAT system is not the one God wants us to use. He plainly commanded us to use 7 day cycles.

You are the one proposing the non-Biblical notion that the Seventh-day Sabbath is connected to some Lunar calendar. There is nothing in Scripture to suggest it is. There is much to suggest that the Seventh-day Sabbath follows a continual weekly cycle. But we can't prove you wrong. Because we can't prove a negative - it's a logical impossibility. We can't prove there is a lack of the connection between the Lunar Calendar and the Sabbath. Of course we can't. We can't prove there aren't UFO's either. You can't prove a negative. I can't prove that my father isn't a Jesuit. So what. Don't suggest we do the impossible to "prove" you are right. It proves nothing, especially that you are right.

PS. Links such as you have given break the rules of this site. If you want to introduce information to this site write it here. Don't spam us with links.
One doesn't need to go to anti- Adventist web sites to learn of Truth. We have the Bible and the Bible and the SOP are clear on this issue.

Feel free to go to Anti-SDA .org religions such as worldslastchance. But, not me.
Did you notice the rules that were posted for this site?
It is good to be cautious as you are being. However, Pastor Ali did indeed draw connections not only to David Koresh but also Jim Jones: "You don't want to be poisoned or burned, do you?" What kind of tasteless joke/question is that?

These are very good site rules and I am so thankful to the man who started this website. I have noticed, however, that the namecalling seems to be rather one-sided, while the appeals from the other point of view are for more Bible study. Rather interesting dynamic, wouldn't you say? I must agree with Heather. All she and many others have been calling for is deeper study and a "better understanding of God and His word."
"Pastor Ali did indeed draw connections not only to David Koresh but also Jim Jones"

You were there and heard this? Or saw the video tape? Share it with us so we can see it too. It's a pretty serious charge.
I have spoken with two people who were in attendance and both agree that those statements were made. The response when Ali asked that was laughter!

One of them spoke with Brenda Flemmer at the BRI this morning and told her about it, too, asking if Pfandle's stance was the official BRI position. Brenda said that the BRI had no official stance (which is what she told me also, when I inquired.) This same person who is acquainted with Angel Rodriguez spoke to him as well and afterward wrote me: "Brenda, Rodriguez secretary I believe was honest. I do not believe this is an official statement from the BRI and as I have just finished talking to Rodriguez at this minute, he assured me that he had not heard about it from Brenda yet but did hear it from Pfandle. He assured me he will read it and let me know. However, he did not say that it was the official statement of BRI but a presentation made by Pfandle to the ministers in Alberta. He promised he will follow up on this and let me know what it is all about."
So it is completely hearsay that would not be admitted into evidence in any court of law. Am I missing something?

We should avoid hearsay. It is gossip. Pure and simple.
I am in the process of filming a documentary on this entire subject. I can assure you that many people will be interviewed on camera and I do intend to include the statements of many in attendance who heard this directly and will testify to the FACT!

Maybe I will post some here during the post production phase of the project.
Gossip. Which is just what this thread is all about.

It is all so amazing. Not sure why anyone would waste their time.
With respect to the issue of name calling, usually when one runs out of evidence to support their point they resort to insults and labeling.

I had one exchange on this Lunar Sabbath issue and the Pastor implied that if one believes this that you are Gay.

I even have an email response from Doug Bachelor attacking the October 22, 1844 and AD31 in a defense of a Saturday Sabbath.

This sounds like the wolf syndrome. Chew off your own arm that is in a trap.


This so called Official Statement is weighed in the balances and found wanting.

There is disturbing silence in it regarding the FACT that the Millerites EMPHATICALLY discarded the rabbinical calender and embraced the Karaite reckoning to arrive at Oct 22, 1844. This very act set a huge precedent in that if the feast days such as the Day of Atonement are determined by the Karaite method then it too would apply to the Passover INCLUDING AD31!

The other error in the statement is in respect to the implied reference to the USNO. That statement from FD Nichol is based upon a reference whose data is severely out of date.
All one has to do is to go to the Official statement of the USNO regarding the accuracy of the moon data and it clearly states that:

Spring Phenomena 25 BCE to 38 CE

The first table below gives the Julian calendar dates and Greenwich times of the astronomical vernal equinox for the years 25 BCE to 38 CE inclusive. The second table gives, for these years, the Julian calendar dates and Greenwich times of the astronomical Full Moons which occurred on or after the date of the equinox, and the dates and times of the astronomical New Moons on or preceding, and after, the date of the equinox. The days of the week are given for the equinoxes and the Full Moons, from which the days of the week may readily be found for the New Moons.

The times given in the tables are accurate to within two or three hours for 25 to 5 BCE, and one or two hours for 4 BCE to 38 CE.

http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/data-servic...


Accurate withing 1-2 hours! Couple that with the Karaite method and you have a new moon (conjunction) on a Julian April 10, AD31 with the sliver crescent sighting on Wednesday April 11 thus making the Thursday the 12th the festival day aka the first of the month. (check your Bible dictionary for the word month)
Count to the 14th day of Nisan and you arrive at Wednesday April 25, AD31.

Psalms 81:3 states that the "appointed time" (KJV) in all Bible dictionaries say:
A masculine noun referring to a full moon. It refers, based on context, to the time when the moon is full (Ps 81:3 [4]; Pr 7:20), the 15th day of the month (NKJV, "the appointed day"; KJV).


There is only one calender that has the 15th day of the month referenced to the time of the new moon, and that is the Lunar-Solar Calender.

Conclusion, if the 15th day of the month of Nisan is a full moon, that would mean the 14th day is just before it.
The USNO as well as all other observatories all concur that the full moon in the year AD31 during the time when the Passover would have occurred according to the Karaite/Millerite method would fall on no other date than a Julian Wednesday April 25th AD31.

Praise God!
Sorry it should have read:

There is only one calender that has the 15th day of the month referenced to the time of the FULL moon, and that is the Lunar-Solar Calender.

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