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Hello!

Within the last few days, a few posts have referred to a new position statement taken by the Biblical Research Institute regarding the lunar Sabbath teaching.

Just this last weekend, a friend of mine attended Garden Road SDA Church in Calgary, Canada, where Pastor Ishmael Ali said he just came back from a ministerial meeting and that we have an official position that the BRI has made on the heresy of the lunar Sabbath calendar that he could present and he would do so next week. Pastor Bob also posted, "I was at pastors' meetings just this week in which Gerhard Pfandl addressed this theory and presented the evidence as to why it is not Biblically tenable and why the Biblical Research Institute has rejected it." He has graciously promised to post the full critique when he gets it. (Pastor Bob - are you in the same conference in Canada?)

I have wished for some time to hear an official stance on the lunar Sabbath from the BRI and was happy to hear what Pastor Ali and Pastor Bob had to say. In my eagerness to obtain the information, I just now called the BRI and spoke to a lovely lady by the name of Brenda Flemmer. I asked if I could receive this information and she said, "No, there is no official church stance. There are GUIDLINES, but nothing has ever been voted on. I do not know if they will vote on it - I have not heard of anything along those lines."

While this was very disappointing to me, I would like to offer a gentle word of caution to everyone involved in the disucssion of so vital a topic as the holy Sabbath: We are not the Roman Catholic Church and the Biblical Research Institute is NOT the "Holy Office for the Defense of the Faith" (aka, the Inquisition.) Angel Rodriguez is not the Grand Inquisitor whose decrees should be taken as the Word of God Almighty. As we all must answer for ourselves at the judgment bar of God, there certainly is room to allow each other religious liberty in our beliefs. Some of the name calling that has occured, "lunies", etc. does not honor the belief which the one doing the name-calling claims to espouse.

Whether you are for or against the lunar Sabbath belief, let us all allow each other sufficient liberty of consciense to study for ourselves what we believe. The findings of the BRI should be taken under consideration in the context of one's OWN study - not as the final end-all-be-all of the discussion, for that would make us no different from the Ropman Catholics who do not feel the need to study for themselves as they just have to believe what the Grand Inquisttor has studied out FOR them.

I, personally, would like to see an official position taken on the lunar Sabath. If any of you agree, I would encourage you to call the BRI and request it. Of course, this can only be done by the GC in session under vote, but there would certainly be opportunity for that iat this next session this year. The phone number of the BRI is 301-680-6790.

In the loving and gracious spirit of Christ, Brothers and Sisters, let us study for ourselves.

God bless!

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Odette said: The test is: all the Gregorian calendars have disappeared from this planet. Now tell me please when are the next Sabbaths for the next 5 years?

I can tell you when His Sabbaths will be for the next 5 years without the help of the pope.
___

Hypotheticals do not come from the Bible - "what if this or that" - we cannot learn from. We are shown in the prophecies of Daniel 2 that Rome rules until the Second Advent. The 7th-day does not come from the pope.



Odette: If you are correct about the meat and the Ceremonial Sabbaths, as being finished or fulfilled or nailed to the cross with Messiah first coming, then why as SDA do we claim the Great Day of Atonement only happening on October 22, 1844, some 1813 years after the cross?
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It's not what I say that matters but what does the Bible say. The meat and drink are from the ceremonial offerings as found in Col 2:16 & Ez 45:17.

Ez.45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel:

Col.2:14-17 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

There's no more feast days for those in "the body of Christ". The feasts pointed foreward as a shadow of the coming final sacrifice, the Messiah.

Heb.10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Gal.3:24 Wherefore the [ceremonial] law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Eph.2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;

1844 was an event that took place in the heavenly sanctuary.

Acts 7:44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as [God] had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.

Hebrews 8:1,2...We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Hebrews 9:1,2 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.......But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.



Odette: Also, why do we abstain from eating pork and lobster, and should be abstaining from blood and fat if these statutes were nailed to the cross? Not too consistent is it not?
___

The health law was not listed as nailed to the cross. It has nothing to do with the sacrificial sin atonement. The health law is forever for all of the faith (Is.66:16,17).

What was abolished at the cross is found in greater detail than I'm posting at the following link if you need to study this all further. You take care Odette, I'm not changing the 7th-day.

Moses Law vs.
God's Ten
Commandments Law

by Joe Crews
Dear Odette,

As humans, we can only view things from a human standpoint. We were not here when God created our world, so we must take God's word by Faith. The Word is clear when it says: "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night.... " "Let there be" means previous to this statement "There was not" So this verse does detail the Creation of the Sun which is the light source of the day, and the moon, which reflects that light at night and other "lights" in the firmament.

So therefore we must take by faith that God created light which was not sourced from the sun on the first day. Because we don't see this light source now or cannot explain it does not mean it did not exist. Furthermore, the Scripture does not say "sunset" it states: "evening".

Also, Ps. 81:1-5 does not state that the feast days were given to Jacob, it states "a law of the God of Jacob". It also states: "This he ordained in Joseph for a testimony" When? "when he went out through the land of Egypt" and we read in Hebrews 11:22: By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones. When did Joseph "go out" through Egypt? He did not leave when he was alive. His bones were taken by Israel in the time of Moses (Ex. 13:19) Scripture is clear that Ps. 81:1-5 is talking about the commemoration of the feast of Passover, which was a statute given to Israel (Ps. 81:4 first part) by Moses.

Blessings,

Michelle
Thank you Michelle. You are well read. That was very helpful.
Dear Michelle,

Moses did not gave the Law, the Statutes and the Judgments to Israel, the Heavenly Father did. Read carefully Leviticus and Deuteronomy, especially chapter 5 of Deut. and you will understand that Moses was the writer but Heavenly Father was the Giver of the Law, the Statutes and the Judgments.

Please answer these questions if you agree with Hebrews 8:

1. How old was the pattern that Moses used to build the sanctuary in the wilderness?

2. Can you name the 2 angels on the ark of the covenant which helps to establish the answer to the first question?

3. If the sanctuary in heaven existed before Moses received the pattern at Sinai, was the calendar included in it or was it added at that time?

If you can answer these 3 questions, you might understand that this is not my human point of view but it is based on the heavenly calendar which was from eternity even before the foundation of the worlds. Lucifer was the covering cherub according to Ezekiel 28 and the SOP and he lost this position eons of years ago, as stated by the prophet, and was replaced by Gabriel who will crown Christ at His coming. Great Controversy the last chapters reveal this fact. Therefore the sanctuary in heaven has existed eons of years ago by conclusion. And Michael was the other angel [archangel]

As for the earthly sanctuary calendar, it was never an afterthought in the mind of God. It is the very physiology or functioning of the sanctuary which is a prophetical calendar of the plan of redemption from the cross (Passover) to the Judgment Hour (October 22, 1844) to the Coming of Christ (Tabernacles).....

To attempt to fit a Roman Pagan, Papal Gregorian Calendar 7th day rest in such a perfect pattern is nothing but the accomplishment of the man of sin who thought about changing times and laws through the power of the one who guarded the Law while still in his perfect state but later rebelled against His Creator and is still seeking worship for himself at his own invented time.

We have always expected to be tested on a Saturday - Sunday choice. What if the choice is between the fable and tradition of man with a total man made calendar and the perfect, complete, connected and harmonious calendar of the sanctuary? Except for Genesis 1:14, no grounded Biblical references has ever been used to demonstrate the presence of Saturday in the Bible and its Roman, Pagan, Papal, Solar based, January beginning calendar, because it does not exist in the Bible. But a Luni-Solar Barley Harvest Calendation was the basis of the Sanctuary Calendar as proven by Leviticus 23, Numbers 28 and 29 and later through the Millerites and the sanctuary Great Day of Atonement of the 10th of the 7th month.

This is not my own personal point of view. It is based on the Sanctuary calendar and the witnessing of the Millerites who were used by the Heavenly Father to restore His calendar that had been totally changed since the dispersion of the Jews and the Decree of Nicaea and Constantine in AD 325. These are Biblical, Astronomical, Chronological, Historical facts. Not traditions and fables of men.

With His love,

odette

It is my hope that we use the sanctuary calendar to answer all these questions, since this is the most connected, complete and harmonious system of truth of the Bible and since the foundation pf our faith is based on the sanctuary: this is the only way to reconcile the Creation Sabbath of Genesis 2 and the Creation Sabbath which Christ rested upon after His crucifixion and death.
I am here to let all of you know that I am listening to the Lord Jesus ONLY and it is He that I follow. Any one who says that Lunai Solar Calendar is in error has a direct responsability to prove that from the Holy Scriptures...you are leading others into strong delusions otherwise...
This church admits that they are Laodecia, the Lord says He will vomit this church out of His mouth because they are heaping up for themselves teachers, having itching ears, they are teaching the commandments of men as doctrine...if it is true what you are all saying then I challenge you to truly study this from the Bible and I mean study, look into the Hebrew, search and pray and knock and ask. Are you fighting for truth and for God's Word or are you fighting for your comfortable pew or your position or your "friends" or your BELIEF of what is the true church??? I will tell you it is not what you think it is...there are SDA Pastors who have stated that "it doesn't matter what day we keep" FACT, then why are we teaching that keeping Sunday is the mark of the beast? I also have had SDA Pastors state that "we must have the wrong dates for 1844 and AD 31 and all the other dates and not the wrong day" that doesn't even make sense, that means that there is no foundation in this church. I have had an SDA Pastor say "I don't care about that" while pushing the Bible away...and this attitude is all throughout the church, these are not isolated instances...let God the Father of all Creation be the judge. That is Who I answer to, not man and not man made false doctrines that are being taught just so that they can keep as many people in the church as possible.

Do you ask why this is happening? DO you ask if you have "arrived" or are you turning over and saying, "ouch that light is too bright, shut it off, let me go back to sleep...???

This is serious folks, this is the great shaking...this is prophecy...you cannot go by the looks of people who follow this, you cannot judge by the sound of people or the status that a person has, you cannot go by the intellect or the lack thereof in order ot see if this is so...you MUST study it for yourselves.

If it is false PROVE IT...from Scripture, proove it. Hey, on top of that you could get paid 1 million dollars to prove it wrong, so there you have it, you could take your vacation time, study this get paid 1 million dollars U.S. from Worlds Last Chance and then quit your job...or whatever...BUT if it is true, then you have taken the time well spent and you have saved your soul and Jesus did not die in vain for you... Is it truth, do you want truth? I want truth so anyone who has the whole truth, not conjecture and not half truths as we see in the statements that Pastor Bob and Dr. Gerhard Pfandl are stating...Pastor Ishmael Ali is repeating what he heard, and that seems to be an epidemic in the SDA Church, parroting and not studying...sorry to say but that has been what I have experienced.... Do you want to leave your salvation in the hands of men??? Or do you want to give up your crown after such a long time... are you giving up now??? Where is your first love? Where is that fire that you had in the beginning of your conversion??? I am pleading with you people do the studies, don't take anyones word for it.
You can get Hebrew word study Bible software for free online, Blue Letter Bible and
e sword are two of them...you can dowload Theophilos, but then you need to purchase their Hebrew word study, although it is worth it. So I say let us follow the Lamb wherever He goes, even if it is hard...the time is here, we have to ask the Lord, give us that Gold tried in the fire, make us to walk on Your path, dress us in Your armour, give us oil in our lamps Lord Jesus, make us pure and holy so that we may stand in the day when You come in the clouds, make us blameless Lord ...show the people Lord, that this is Your truth and that You are perfect and Holy and Your word is Holy that You died exactly on time and that You rose exactly on time and that all of time was created by You and that You did not leave us without the ability to know, You have provided, let us look to Your provisions and understand them...let the people see that Your time is nearer even at the door...may all see the Light and walk in the Light...Amen
"This church admits that they are Laodecia"

Sources?

"there are SDA Pastors who have stated that "it doesn't matter what day we keep" FACT"

Really? Source?

I agree that everyone needs to study for themselves. DILIGENTLY. But I am beginning to get sick of people that disagree with our church suggesting that we haven't studied enough. We have studied. And we have come to a conclusion. The week and the Sabbath are based on the 7 days of creation and God's sanctification of His Holy day. Nothing else. There is nothing in nature that dictates a 7 day week like is the case with days and years. God made the Sabbath and the week very easy to understand. We ARE worshiping on the correct day. It's the same Sabbath that Christ and Ellen White kept. I will follow their example.
Vincenzo, Are you so far out of the mainstream of SDA doctrine and thought that you need sources quoted for this denomination admitting that we are Laodecia? You cannot attend a Revelation (or other prophecy) Seminar without having that "fact" stressed. I don't recall the exact dates they give, but it seems it is with the capture of the Pope in 1798 that the Philadelphia church age ended and Laodecia began. The theory is that Laodecia continues until the second coming. Last I checked Jesus has not returned yet. Thus by every prophecy class in every SDA Academy, College, University and Seminary, we are Laodecia. You even hear this from the pulpit on occasional Sabbath mornings.
"Any one who says that Lunai Solar Calendar is in error has a direct responsability to prove that from the Holy Scriptures"
No, you have a responsibility to prove your demonic, specious theory from the Scriptures which you can't do!
This is in error and is straight from the evil one to deceive. satan doesn't care how he gets us to deny the BIBLE Sabbath and this plays right into his hands.
I can only pray that those on this forum who haven't bought into this unbiblical lie will have the sense to stay away from it.
BTW, world's last chance is a lunatic group that hates the SDA Church and if you are affiliated with them then you must have lied to gain entry to this forum, it is for practicing MEMBERS of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination.
Of course, it would show the kind of character those pushing this heresy have to lie in oirder to try and poison true believers with their soul-destroying trash. Using lies and deceit to gain entry...hmmm...that speaks volumes for their character and integrity doesn't it?
The lunies certainly came out in force, screaming like banshees once the article from Gerhard Pfandl got posted. Any idea how they got wind of that, Paul?
lunies...demonic

Again.. resorting to insults.... PATHETIC!

I think it be wise to stop the name calling PASTOR, and address the facts directly.

"He who slings mud loses ground fast"

As far as WLC, they just happen to have posted some of the very same a information and produced some videos that expound upon the Biblical soundness of this information.

As far as the quotes you are looking for Vincenzo, it is difficult to produce the videos and such for these statements were made with discussions with pastors, leaders and members in our own home, however at least my wife and I were both witnesses so there is no doubt in our experiences.

Bob, I can assure you that I am in fact a baptized member of the SDA church. I have been a member for close to 6 years. What I can tell you is that I have never stopped studying and will continue to study for I have found that there are many traditions of the RC church that have crept into the SDA church and have been accepted as fact.
Mike. Why do you then remain in a church that is according to you steeped in Roman Catholic traditions and worships on the wrong day?

I think the comparison of the two groups here is instructive. The invasion group is trying to shove their theory down our throats with threats and name calling and insults. Is this the Spirit of God? Or is it the spirit of the evil one? It is the Holy Spirit who convicts. Some here it appears are trying to replace the Holy Spirit. That is blashphemy.
Hello, Alexandria! Good question! In reply, here are some pretty big RCC traditions accepted by the SDA church:

1. Pope Gregory XIIIs calendar - the Gregorian calendar with its continuous weekly cycle.
2. The seven day planetary week adopted, not from the Jews, but from the Mithraists and standardized at the council of Nicea.
3. Christmas, Easter, etc.
4. What about the new touchy-feely way of referring to pastors? Instead of the respectful Elder Smith, Elder Jameson, it is now Pastor Jim, Pastor Joe, etc. Very like the post Vatican II way of doing it: Father Bob, Father Sam, etc.
These are just a few . . .

It continues to amaze me that we quote from Catholics to "prove" that they tried to change the Sabbath to Sunday, but when the Catholic quotes also confirm that it was done via a calendar change, we suddenly cannot accept quotes from Roman Catholic scholars! A bit inconsistent in my opinion . . . ;)
Demonic? A calendar system that God used in the Bible and instituted for Israel with only one change? You need to study your scriptures much more carefully before you call something unscriptural.

The one change God made was that the month of Passover, Abib or Nissan -- both names are used -- was now to be the first month. Previous to this Tishri had been the first month, and was still observed as the first month in the civil calendar.

Exodus 12: 1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 "This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. 3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb [a] for his family, one for each household.

That the New Moon was the first day of the month under this system instituted by God is a little harder to prove from the Law, but not impossible. The two silver trumpets were to be blown on the New Moon to announce the New Moon Festival: Numbers 10:10 Also at your times of rejoicing—your appointed feasts and New Moon festivals—you are to sound the trumpets over your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, and they will be a memorial for you before your God. I am the LORD your God."

The special burnt offering on the New Moon was: Numbers 28:14 With each bull there is to be a drink offering of half a hin of wine; with the ram, a third of a hin ; and with each lamb, a quarter of a hin. This is the monthly burnt offering to be made at each new moon during the year. The Sabbath burnt offering was only two lambs. If the value of the required burnt offerings is an indication the New Moon was a much more important occasion than the weekly Sabbath.

Numbers 28:14 With each bull there is to be a drink offering of half a hin of wine; with the ram, a third of a hin ; and with each lamb, a quarter of a hin. This is the monthly burnt offering to be made at each new moon during the year. This is the closest the Bible actually comes to stating that the first day of the month is the New Moon.

The New Moon will be celebrated in Heaven, and it is surprising that Adventists apparently don't know this, because the very texts they rely on to prove that the weekly Sabbath will be kept in heaven state that the New Moon will also be kept in heaven.

Isaiah 66:23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD.

Ezekiel 45:17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths—at all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel.

Ezekiel 46:1 " 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: The gate of the inner court facing east is to be shut on the six working days, but on the Sabbath day and on the day of the New Moon it is to be opened.

Ezekiel 46:3 On the Sabbaths and New Moons the people of the land are to worship in the presence of the LORD at the entrance to that gateway.

If the Bible states so clearly that the New Moon will be celebrated in Heaven, just as Israel was supposed to keep it, this cannot be a demonic and unbiblical concept as you so clearly state without quoting a single scripture for proof.

2 Timothy 3:16 & 17 says: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for REPROOF, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." I have not seen the article you are referring to. I don't know if they use Scripture to prove their doctrine or not. If they do, I do not know if they use the scripture correctly or if they twist it. What I do know is that you gave a strongly worded reproof which called their doctrine demonic, but which never once used a single scripture as proof. So then we are to simply take your word for it? Over God's word which seems to support their point of view much more closely than it supports yours?

Keeping New Moons in no way denies the Bible Sabbath. If anything it supports the keeping of the Bible Sabbaths since the weekly Sabbath was not the only Bible Sabbath and these higher level Sabbaths all point to progressive revelation of what the Sabbath really means, up to, including and especially the Jubilee, which Jesus stated as being the purpose of his ministry. In Nazareth he stood before the synagogue, opened the scroll of Isaiah and read:

1 The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me,
because the LORD has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim freedom for the captives
and release from darkness for the prisoners, [a]
2 to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor


This is a direct reference in Isaiah to the Law of Jubilee. God read Leviticus 25 sometime and see that for yourself. Jubilee is the highest form of Sabbath. I do not have the space to prove that here, but I will happily study the matter with anyone who desires to seek truth rather than dogma.

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