Adventist Online

Hello!

Within the last few days, a few posts have referred to a new position statement taken by the Biblical Research Institute regarding the lunar Sabbath teaching.

Just this last weekend, a friend of mine attended Garden Road SDA Church in Calgary, Canada, where Pastor Ishmael Ali said he just came back from a ministerial meeting and that we have an official position that the BRI has made on the heresy of the lunar Sabbath calendar that he could present and he would do so next week. Pastor Bob also posted, "I was at pastors' meetings just this week in which Gerhard Pfandl addressed this theory and presented the evidence as to why it is not Biblically tenable and why the Biblical Research Institute has rejected it." He has graciously promised to post the full critique when he gets it. (Pastor Bob - are you in the same conference in Canada?)

I have wished for some time to hear an official stance on the lunar Sabbath from the BRI and was happy to hear what Pastor Ali and Pastor Bob had to say. In my eagerness to obtain the information, I just now called the BRI and spoke to a lovely lady by the name of Brenda Flemmer. I asked if I could receive this information and she said, "No, there is no official church stance. There are GUIDLINES, but nothing has ever been voted on. I do not know if they will vote on it - I have not heard of anything along those lines."

While this was very disappointing to me, I would like to offer a gentle word of caution to everyone involved in the disucssion of so vital a topic as the holy Sabbath: We are not the Roman Catholic Church and the Biblical Research Institute is NOT the "Holy Office for the Defense of the Faith" (aka, the Inquisition.) Angel Rodriguez is not the Grand Inquisitor whose decrees should be taken as the Word of God Almighty. As we all must answer for ourselves at the judgment bar of God, there certainly is room to allow each other religious liberty in our beliefs. Some of the name calling that has occured, "lunies", etc. does not honor the belief which the one doing the name-calling claims to espouse.

Whether you are for or against the lunar Sabbath belief, let us all allow each other sufficient liberty of consciense to study for ourselves what we believe. The findings of the BRI should be taken under consideration in the context of one's OWN study - not as the final end-all-be-all of the discussion, for that would make us no different from the Ropman Catholics who do not feel the need to study for themselves as they just have to believe what the Grand Inquisttor has studied out FOR them.

I, personally, would like to see an official position taken on the lunar Sabath. If any of you agree, I would encourage you to call the BRI and request it. Of course, this can only be done by the GC in session under vote, but there would certainly be opportunity for that iat this next session this year. The phone number of the BRI is 301-680-6790.

In the loving and gracious spirit of Christ, Brothers and Sisters, let us study for ourselves.

God bless!

Views: 4233

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Mr. Robertson,
OF COURSE any suggestion that says we are keeping the wrong day as Sabbath is "demonic". It is from Satan and Satan alone. It is intended to fracture the church.

God bless
Vincenzo,

Denominationalism is what fractures the church, and I have seen a considerable amount of that fracturing in this thread, and I have not even read the entire thread yet, even though I have been trying for the last few weeks.

10I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas[a]"; still another, "I follow Christ."

13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into[b] the name of Paul? 14I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
1 Corinthians 1

1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? 4For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere men?

5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

16Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 17If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
1 Corinthians 3

The entire church (not just one denomination) is the body of Christ.

14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

21The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
1 Corinthians 12

Compare this with Colossians 2

18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

I'm going to expand on Paul's thoughts here, which can be a dangerous thing, but the idea does seem to exist in these passages even if it is only implicit in them. If a denomination goes to the extent of calling itself the only true believers ("I am a follower of Cephas (Peter)" or "I am a follower of Paul," or "I am a Seventh-day Adventist,") they have actually cut themselves off from the head and are no longer a part of the body. Even if they are still a part of the body, such behavior is divisive, attempting to cut others off from the head, and thus is a destruction of the body and a fracturing of the Church.

Examining these things that others present in good faith does not fracture the Church. In fact, if they have a strong and compelling basis for their arguments, refusing to do so would be the real problem. When Paul went to a new city the first place he went was the synagogue. Some believed, others behaved as you, calling him satanic and a divisive influence attempting to fracture the established Church of his day (Jesus was also treated the same way.) But not all who believed were looked at the same way by Paul (and presumably God himself) for Luke said of the Bereans, 11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. Acts 17:11.

Everything is to be compared with scripture, and there has been way too little of that in this thread, although more recent posts do seem to be getting better at it. But in this case, not only scripture needs to be examined, but the historical record as well. I have looked at much of the evidence presented. While some of it does seem to have a very sound scriptural and historical basis, there is much that also seems to be speculation which is neither provable nor disprovable, and more that appears to be easily disprovable speculation.

But given that they do have a respectable amount of Biblical support, it would be a greater problem to dismiss this opinion out of hand than to give it some well considered study before rejecting it as false (or at least unproven and unlikely, which is my opinion.) Who knows, you could even find that the majority belief is the falsehood. It would not be the first time that has happened, and Jesus himself proved that many times over during his ministry.
During the time when the church is in the process of a split we will not find unity. Most of the threads appear to be having a problem with unity. This is to be expected, although not desired. There will come a day when the church will be triumphant and the split will have taken place. Unity will return. While we don't want to try to cause the split or the disunity, it cannot be helped. To try to have forced unity at the expense of truth is ridiculous.
Dear Vincenzo,

Your response was given to me by the Pentecostal Pastor of the Church I belonged to while I was reading the Great Controversy in 1982. It is interesting the Catholic Church says the same thing about anyone who keeps other days than her own man-made SUN-DAY. SATURN-DAY which proceeds from the same calendar reckoning.

At this time of earth history, it is wise to search all things Biblically, Astronomically, Chronologically and Historically, in order to give an answer to those who ask the reason for our faith.

Although most Adventists claim the reason of our faith is the 7th Day Sabbath Saturday, it is not!

"The correct understanding of the ministration in the heavenly sanctuary is the foundation of our faith." Ev. 226.

The 7th day was introduced by Mrs. Oakes, an Anabaptist. And although the Luni-Solar Barley Harvest Mosaic Law Calendation was restored through the Millerites in the 1800's, it was lost again till the 1930's when the SDA church was attempting to prove the October 22, 1844 date of the Great Day of Atonement, contrary to the Jews who kept September 23, in 1844.

The General Conference Committee set up in 1938-1939 proceeded, through the Grace Amadon Collection, to prove this unimpeachable date and stumbled upon a Saturday Sabbath because, according to the way of calendation of the Millerites, based on the Luni-Solar Barley Harvest Calendation, and the words of Andreasen, the 7th day cannot always fall on Saturday, and it is an astronomical fact. Not DOCTRINAL OR DEMONIC.

Surely, SDA with all our advanced knowledge, scientific accomplishments and educated scholars, could gather together and admit to this technical fact:

The Gregorian Calendar, at the request of Pope Gregory, was ordered to replace the Roman Julian Calendar. It [Julian Calendar] simply started in January rather than the Spring season as first instituted because of a legislation of the Roman Senate.

Not wanting to differ from the previous calendar, Rome ordered the calendar to start in January --- in honor of the rising sun ---

If you want to call something coming from the pit of hell -- the Gregorian calendar is! Lucifer is the one who thought about changing times and laws (Dan. 9:25). And he accomplished this through not only Sunday keeping, but Calendar reckoning. How clever!

Now, one big argument is: Why did Sister White was not told this and kept Saturday?Question: Was Sister White a prophet in 1869, yet still eating pork, which is an abomination unto the Lord? The Health Message came at that time!

Answer: Absolutely, she was a prophet.

So was Daniel, yet he never told us the 2300 days terminated in October 22, 1844.

It was not for his time, neither did Sis. White received that important information because:

a. she was dealing with a people that had lost their faith in October 22, in 1844, and received the information in 1845 by Mrs. Oakes through Brother Bates.

b. they kept the Sabbath from 6 p.m to 6 p.m. for 10 years, before the angel spoke to her and told her to: "Read and your will understand but not yet, not yet." 1T116.

c. why would she receive more light when the people were already at a Laodician state by 1865.

d. and then refused the message of righteousness message in 1888 and obedience to all His law, statutes and judgments.

She was dealing with a people of the same spirit of insubordination as Israel. Did Israel received more light while in rebellion? On the contrary they were always sent in captivity. And this is where we have been, from 1844 - 1888 -- then she was shipped (literally) to Australia by the church in the early 1900. While she obeyed and the Lord blessed her in other continents, she knew it was not His will, but they will to silence her there after they refused the re-organization in 1901 as revealed to her.

Then in 1939, the reckoning of His calendar was re-opened to the church and put in archives till 1995 where a Committee was appointed by the General Conference under President Folkenberg, to re-open the Grace Amadon Collection. A committee of 7 who checked all the archives on this important Collection -- then closed it again till 2007. I, along with 3 others, was able to get over 3000 pages of the Collection in 2007. It is Biblically, Astronomically, Chronologically and Historically prepared and I have just made a series of 10 DVD which are on u-tube, to explain the value of the Luni-Solar Barley Harvest Mosaic Law Calendation, with references for your perusal.

So, I ask you brother, to do your studies, Biblically, Astronomically, Chronologically and Historically before calling it from the devil. It is an old Catholic Tactic to argue with such feeble premise as you submit.

Interestingly enough, many Saturday keepers have never taken the time to prove Biblically from the Sanctuary, as I have done on my DVD, how a Saturday reckoning would fit wih the Levitical law of calendation according to Lev. 23 and Numbers, chapters 28, 29. The reason they have not done so is because it cannot be done. Saturday did not exist in the Mosaic Law which proceeds from the heavenly sanctuary. The other worlds do not keep Saturday but they do observe the 7th day. (Isa. 66:23).

Another amazing point, noone of the 7th day Saturday proponent has ever presented any scriptural evidence to demonstrate how to prove a double manna falling on the 6th day, based on Exodus 16 verse 1, which gives a precise date for the arrival at Sinai and the beginning of the weekly manna.

Neither did any 7th day Saturday keeper able to prove the date of the flood based on a Gregorian calendar. The reason is very simple: it cannot be done.

The Bible was never written under a Roman, Pagan, Papal, Julian, Gregorian Calendar.

It was written with the Luni-Solar Barley Harvest Mosaic Law Calendation as restored by the Creator in 1844 through the Millerites. So before, calling "demonic" words on those who have done Biblical, Astronomical, Chronoligical and Historical studies, it would be wise to answer the same way for we know that "he who speaketh before he heareth it is folly and shame unto him." This is from the Word, not from myself, so let us study to be found approved. Please, make sure to check me out on: calendar counterfeit unmasked grace amadon collection on u-tube and tell me where I err please, for I love His church and I am not against His teaching but if it speaks not according to His word, we must choose His word.

The Spirit of Prophecy has more proofs, except for those few quotes on Saturday and Friday night preparation, in favor of a "7th Day Sabbath" than a Saturday keeping -- especially in the conflict series. I love the SOP and would not deny its base: the Bible, and it does not deny the Bible.

I believe I have done my homework in showing this.

With His love,

odette
Dear Nikoa,

The 1888 statement called for by the prophet on the subject of insubordination was directly connected with 1888. I did not make it out and it does reflect the spirit at that time. Especially when you read the many statements following 1888. I totally believe in the message of 1888 as being the beginning of the outpouring of the Latter Rain. And I do not need to write everyone of them since you seem to have access to all her writings as well. Remember, Israel rejected the guidance of the Great King at the time of their highest prosperity: David was the chosen king of Israel by God. Saul was not and was rejected for "obedience is better than sacrifices."

Than Solomon came on the throne and although gifted with wisdom as no other man ever possessed, his kingdom was divided under his son because of all his sins of aldultery, worshipping other gods, setting up groves to the heathen gods, and taxing Israel without mercy.

It is not because a nation or a church is young or old that makes it a rejected one: it is her capacity to obey and receive what the Heavenly Father in His kindness, sends her.

There is new truth for every generation, and while quotes have been submitted from the SOP in favor of Saturday, I have not read one from the Bible except a moon being created on the 4th day from Genesis 1, which I responded that the sun was also mentioned in the same verse therefore, it cancel the evaluation of any preceeding days till the 4th day based on a sunset to sunset reckoning and thus cannot be right. The sun and moon along with the stars were created the first day and were appointed their function for signs, seasons, days and years in verse 14 of the same chapter. And this is exactly the science of astronomy -- to appoint time.

It is our duty to study these important information at this time as the calendar issue is once more discussed at the political level as in the 1920 era. A new calendar just like in the 1920's era should be on in 2012 if they have their way and the Heavenly Father may very well let it go through this time.

And that will place the Sunday and Saturday keepers in a very vulnerable way as it moves these days... Unless they learn how to do Gregorian Reckoning based on the Solar cycle. Better still, maybe they can ask Rome to keep it up for them since it comes from Rome directly!

To defend ourselves in court with "Sister White kept Saturday, therefore Saturday must be right, is a feeble statement."

Please show Biblically, Astronomically, Chronologically and Historically proofs that the present day calendar reckoning is correct.

Jonah ran away from his assigned duty,
Elijah quit his post being scared of Jezebel,
Jeremiah claimed he was to young to be a prophet,
David committed adultery and murder,
Solomon had 1000 wives and concubines,

And Peter denied his master,
Paul compromised by submititing to the Jewish purification law and closed his ministry sooner than God intended,

And Sister White ate pork till the Heavenly Father showed her the Levitical Law in chapter 11.

They were all prophets, yet light were given to them progressively and depended on the spirit of the people they delivered the message to.

Even Isaiah and Daniel, did not received all the light and yet were blessed of God.

All these great men of faith were men of passions as we are and were obedient to the Word as revealed to them.

Those of us who have studied the 1844 reckoning, did not look for new light, but as we read the way of calendation of the Millerites, it is evident they did not used the Gregorian calendar to arrive at their unimpeachable conclusion that October 22 was the Great Day of Atonement in 1844, not September 23 as the Jews claim to this day.

Anyone able to show the reckoning of these dates, and why October 22nd is the right date, will understand what the Luni-Solar Barley Harvest Mosaic Law Calendation represents. Patriarchs and Prophets, chapter 52, Great Controversy chapter 22 and Exodus 9, 13, Leviticus 23, Numbers 28, 29 and many other chapters of the Bible can be used to prove this system of calendation.

The Word is written line upon line, principles upon principles, precepts upon precepts. One cannot use one quote to prove a point applying this principle.

The Biblical, Sanctuary Sabbath was not only Lunar, but LUNAR and SOLAR, combined with the barley being ripe for Passover to wave the sheaf at Firstfruits, it was a dependable, scientifically, astronomically, seasonal based method that was given by the Creator but changed by the man of sin and the Jews who compromised after the destruction of Jerusalem and this was a direct judgment as per Lamentations 2:6.

God forbids we repeat their history at this time again.

"He who rules over the calendar rules over the Nation."

Choose ye this day whom should rule over you.

With His love,

odette
Dear Odette,

You said:

"There is new truth for every generation, and while quotes have been submitted from the SOP in favor of Saturday, I have not read one from the Bible except a moon being created on the 4th day from Genesis 1, which I responded that the sun was also mentioned in the same verse therefore, it cancel the evaluation of any preceeding days till the 4th day based on a sunset to sunset reckoning and thus cannot be right. The sun and moon along with the stars were created the first day and were appointed their function for signs, seasons, days and years in verse 14 of the same chapter. And this is exactly the science of astronomy -- to appoint time."

You also had a similar statement previously on the thread where I responded, which I don't know if you have had the time to read so I will re-post:

As humans, we can only view things from a human standpoint. We were not here when God created our world, so we must take God's word by Faith. The Word is clear when it says: "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night.... " "Let there be" means previous to this statement "There was not" So this verse does detail the Creation of the Sun which is the light source of the day, and the moon, which reflects that light at night and other "lights" in the firmament.

So therefore we must take by faith that God created light which was not sourced from the sun on the first day. Because we don't see this light source now or cannot explain it does not mean it did not exist. Furthermore, the Scripture does not say "sunset" it states: "evening".


Blessings,

Michelle
Dear Odette,

First I want to say that I respect the fact that you are a very scholarly person and with an IQ that is probably way higher than mine... and I say this seriously. Maybe it is for this reason that what you are sharing is very confusing to me.

So why would God make the Sabbath, which is the test of the end of time something so difficult to comprehend that we must now cross-reference Scripture with Astronomical, Chronological, and Historical studies to arrive at this important truth? I would argue that most people in this world are simple-minded- so... does it sound fair for God to make His Truth understood only by a small percent of earth's population?

I do truly believe what Jesus said with all my heart- that His gospel would be as simple for a little child to understand (Matt. 11:25). "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." 2Tim. 3:15

Also, we know that Scripture alone is all that is necessary to know the Truth. There is much talk about how HIstory has been changed through the years... and there is no arguing that calendars have changed- but God's Word remains the same. "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. Rom. 16:25-27

Also, I have found Scripture to be so beautifully clear. The weekly cycle was given at Creation with His Seal of Creatorship on the 7th day. The sun, moon and stars were given "to divide the day from the night; and.... for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" (Gen 1:14)

Scripture is clear that there was no astronomical event given for the weekly cycle, therefore the Sabbath is not dependent on any astronomical event. No matter how much satan has tried to confuse man, the weekly cycle remains unchanged.

I believe it is a matter of Faith for us to trust that God would preserve His Sabbath untouched throughout the 6000 years of sin on this planet, and that all the faithful have kept it throughout the ages. E. White states:

I am instructed to say, Gather from the Scriptures the proofs that God has sanctified the seventh day, and let these proofs be read before the congregation. Let those who have not heard the truth be shown that all who turn aside from a plain "Thus saith the Lord," must suffer the result of their course. In all ages the Sabbath has been the test of loyalty to God. "It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever," the Lord declares.--Gospel Workers, pp. 148, 149. (1915) {Ev 226.1}

The Lord has been pleased to give His people the third angel's message as a testing message to bear to the world. John beholds a people distinct and separate from the world, who refuse to worship the beast or his image, who bear God's sign, keeping holy His Sabbath--the seventh-day to be kept holy as a memorial of the living God, the Creator of heaven and earth. Of them the apostle writes, "Here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."-- Letter 98, 1900. {Ev 233.3}

As the Sabbath was the sign that distinguished Israel when they came out of Egypt to enter the earthly Canaan, so it is the sign that now distinguishes God's people as they come out from the world to enter the heavenly rest. The Sabbath is a sign of the relationship existing between God and His people, a sign that they honor His law. It distinguishes between His loyal subjects and transgressors. {6T 349.3}

Ellen White is clear in the above quote that the Sabbath was a sign "now" or during the time she wrote the quote- so that would mean that God's people were keeping the true Sabbath.

Blessings,

Michelle
Dear Michelle,

Sorry for the delay in responding. I had a wonderful time at the GC, meeting old friends and making new ones as long as hearing positive reports and sermons.

I have just returned to Canada last night to Toronto and I am on my way to Montreal then back to Alberta so I apologize for the in between response considering I am driving.

While I appreciate your point regarding my understanding of the so-called matter, I can easily explain it. The Grace Amadon Collection I have had the joy to read and study for the past 3 years now has been my instructor. Although I am a chemist and massage therapist and a few other things, I have never learn astronomy before. But thanks to that Collection and the Millerites way of calculating October 22, 1844, according to the Luni-solar Barley Harvest Calendation, I have learn the terminology and I am simply repeating it.

One advantage I have is that I love reading, studying and researching thousands of pages of material contrary to many who rather like short, simplified reading or studies.

One other fact I would like to assure you of is: chemistry and physic are more complicated than astronomy. The main reason is: chemistry is MICROscopic were astronomy is MACROscopic. Meaning: chemistry is a science you cannot see the basic material: atom, proton, neutron, electron -- you can only see their chemical reactions, that is with the naked eye. But astronomy is observable with the naked eye: like a new moon crescent on a clear sky, a first quarter, a full moon, ect. The same is true for barley being ripe.

One does not need to be a rocket scientist or an astronomer to see that. And that is what I love about our Creator: He put His witnesses right in our sight for all of us to see, whether from Adam time to our time!

The same moon Adam, Abraham or David observed the new year or the new month, is right up there as long as we lift up our eyes and want to see. This has been done for generations by heathen and believers alike. Except for one thing: they did not interpret it all the same way as we are encountering here today. Same moon, same stars, same sun: different interpretation, different conclusion.

I often teach children all this, using a planisphere to show the sky and the stars and the ecliptic line on which the sun and planets travel and I always attempt to adapt it so they can understand the way our world up there functions, the same as they understand the brain nerves are 12 pairs and are related to the 5 senses.

Of course it requires knowledge but it can be kept simple so a child can understand it. The Creator did not intend it to be complicated but our finite mind needs practice in these fields in order to understand. If you live in the country, I am sure you can find Orion easily in the fall or winter and other constellations in the sky. They have been there for centuries on top of our head but we are often so earthly minded that we forget to look up. Well! we might do well to start looking up for our salvation draweth nigh and He is coming again through Orion this time.

All sciences of course require some studies. I love sciences because I believe they reveal His great Infinite Mind. Sciences are no God but they are representing the way He thinks and in His love for human kind, He has been willing to reveal them to men. I do not believe sciences are from the enemy since he only counterfeits everything he has learn from the Creator. Although sciences have been mis-used for destruction, they were meant for our welfare and simply, for knowledge.

Astronomy is the science of time. The tribe of Isachar was the keeper of time. They were gifted with that knowledge. It can be acquired in order to understand the counterfeit from the genuine and that is why the Millerites were given that gift in 1844 and I believe it has been forgotten after the Great Disappointment and more than once the Heavenly Father has wanted to restore it since.

If you care for more understanding, I have prepared a series of 10 dvd which I put on u-tube, on the calendar and sanctuary, based on the Bible and the SOP. After my 3 years of study of the Grace Amadon Collection and reading on this forum that people do not care about long dissertation, I attempted to shrink 3000 pages of the Grace Amadon Collection, many more of the SOP and BIble into 60 minutes of study on the subject hoping it can bring some light on the matter. You can find it on utube: calendar counterfeit unmasked grace amadon collection. You will get file 9 but will want to start with the intro and go on from there. I also have made a dvd of it for those who want their own material.

To say that the Luni-Solar Barley Harvest Calendation is complicated is probably justified by the fact that we are no longer living in the country for most people and are accustomed to live under artificial light and this is a fact of only this century because as you know, for thousand of years, humankind lived under natural light and did not always mostly lived in the cities as we are today.

Therefore the knowledge one may seem to possess maybe simply because of these factors. Organic farmers totally agree with the conclusion we present on the moon although they know nothing about the Sabbath. I have also found that the Asian people like the Chinese or the African do not have any problem to understand such a calendar as their grand parents still use it for birth date and agriculture.

The 7th Day Sabbath is the sign that distinguishes God's People to enter the heavenly rest. I have never contradicted that. Notice she does not say Saturday leaving at this time the opportunity to re-visit the sanctuary calendar restored for us in 1844 through the Millerites who have given us the Great Day of Atonement and bringing us into the Most Holy Place under the luni-solar barley harvest calendation reckoning. I am not the one who has come out with this. The Millerites did under inspiration and she said in the Great Controversy that this date was unimpeachable.

On one hand she ackowledged this date, the event and the calendar they used to reckon that date. On the other hand she kept the 7th day according to the Gregorian Calendar.

There is no contradiction since the Word prevails and is confirmed by the sanctuary. Therefore the conclusion is not that complicated: wait for a time is coming where people will not have to choose between Saturday or Sunday but between the Gregorian Calendar or the Benedictine Calendar, which is another man-made calendar like the Gregorian calendar. It is the same calendar submitted to the League of Nations in the 1930's but rejected by the Jews and Christian Denominations.

At that time the SDA church had an opportunity to present the true calendar but did not and then came WWII and the calendar discussion was revived by President Carter but was never pursued. But the same organization is pushing the same calendar now and I hope this time the church will stand up to the challenge.

Yes it is a big shock at this time to discover we may have kept the wrong day all this time including Sister White but at the time of our ignorance God winks the eye. The pioneers kept the Sabbath from 6pm to 6pm for 10 years and that is exactly what the angel said to her in 1T116. The frown of God is not on His people when they are ignorant.

It is not a sufficient excuse to continue in ignorance though when new light is revealed. We must investigate it without delay and pray to be revealed if it is light. We have the Bible, and yes, astronomy, chronology and history to help us in our research. Noone needs to be a scholar or a scientist to understand His calendar. He has it in His two books, the Bible and Nature, He always does that.

Check and you will see what I am saying about the shifting of Saturday in the near future if the Heavenly Father allowes it this time. Claiming Sister White kept Saturday will not be sufficient proof. Or better still some people may want to keep track of the old Gregorian calendar like the Orthodox Church have done to this day with the old Julian Calendar, but that is not a proof they are keeping the right calendar. Or better still, maybe some can ask the Vatican to continue issuing the Gregorian calendar since it comes from them, a fact unknown to many Protestants including Adventists.

I am not here to create trouble in the faith of many regarding Saturday. I believe we have enough instruction to prepare for this issue which is right at hand. It was supposed to come out in 2006 according to that website I mentioned above, but after speaking to the President of World Calendar Organization, he explained to me that it was postponed till 2012 and they are hoping this time it will pass.

The Grace Amadon Collection obtained at the Center for Adventist Research at Andrews showes all that. So this is where I seem to be so knowledgeable, but it is because I have read 3000 pages of it for 3 years and I am simply repeating what I studied. This Collection was re-studied in 1995 by a Committee appointed by the President of the GC formed of 2 GC representatives and 5 Andrews representatives. But it was closed again till we ordered it my friends and I in 2007. I am sure you could get it or part of it if you wanted it as well. We paid about $1200 US. But it should have cost millions in value. I believe it is the second trunk in William Miller dream as reported in page 81 of Early Writings. Blessings.

With His Love,

odette
Alexander,

This sounds like a nice excuse, but unfortunately it is wrong. God places the burden of proof on every believer, not simply the one presenting a new idea. Of course, if they cannot produce compelling evidence you need not waste your time. These people do have a considerable amount of evidence, some compelling and some junk, and it is unwise to simply dismiss it as most who argue against it in this thread have.
Sister Heather
You have said what it was supposed to ,you were soo true in what u said but we need objective people to listen to this,we need objective people to study for themselves.Yes,it is true that those people of the church want to keep their positions and friends and so on BUT don't want Jesus!!!!!!!!!what can we do is to pray for them only..........although i feel very sorry when i see that they refuse even to hear about the topic,may God open their hearts to know his wisdom.Amen
Heather, you mentioned something very important that we should prayerfully study the word of God on our own and not rely on others for interpretation. But it would be more beneficial if--instead of a lengthy plea--you explained using bible text why you are convinced with the theory of lunar sabbath. I have just watched part of three months in a raw from worlds last chance but i did not see any proof that the weekly sabbath was tied to the lunar calender. (I will finish watching it)
You need to understand that the weekly sabbath was instituted at creation not in the wilderness or at Sinai. This is very important because the sun, moon, stars etc were created on the fourth day and God rested on the seventh day thereby instituting the sabbath. Now, how was the first or second sabbath dependent on the moon? God would have had to count seven days from the fourth day of creation (when he created the moon) and named that day the sabbath day. The weekly sabbath is not dependent on the new moon, it is dependent on creation events. God spent six days creating and on the seventh day, he rested and commanded man to rest on every seventh day of the week, which is the last day of every week. I would be happy if you present me with concrete biblical evidence that the weekly sabbath is dependent on the new moon. You can send it to my inbox (If you don't provide it, i will assume you are still trying to find it)
Like you said, we need to watch and pray, the devil is coming up with all sorts of deceptions and distortions of God's holy word, all who trust their understanding and intelligence will be deceived and will follow one of the many deceptions the devil is channeling out!
God would have had to count seven days from the fourth day of creation (when he created the moon) and named that day the sabbath day.

You have extreme weakness in your argument on this point. I'm not arguing for or against 6 literal days of creation. But when this argument does come up this inconsistency almost always comes up from those insisting that it must be literal 24 hour periods. Time as stated in the creation story is counted by evenings and mornings. Evenings are defined by the setting of the sun and mornings by the rising of the sun.

You say that God could not have based the weekly Sabbath on the New Moon because the moon was not created until the fourth day. Yet the sun was not created until that day either. How was it that God was telling the time in terms of days? Your argument is extremely weak on this point and as a result you do as much to disprove your own claim as that of the people you are arguing against. Clearly God was defining evenings and mornings in some other way before the Sun was created, and if he was doing that, he could also define other cycles in ways you do not know or understand as well.

I have never before encountered this moon theory quite as it seems to be presented here so I am not arguing in favor of it. If you people are presenting it accurately here it certainly has problems fitting the Biblical teaching concerning the New Moon Sabbath, but that also certainly does not invalidate the New Moon Sabbath, which is not to be celebrated instead of the weekly Sabbath, but along with it, as well as with the sabbatical years and Jubilees.

RSS

Site Sponsors

 

Adventist Single?
Meet other Single
Adventists here:
Join Free


USA members:

Support AO by
using this link:
Amazon.com

 

© 2019   Created by Clark P.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service