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I'm not sure about these passages...  One says this, "No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake and your frequent infirmities."  1 Timothy 5:23 is this talking about new wine grape juice?

Also this text in John 19:29,30

"Vs 29 Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. Vs 30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, It is finished!"  And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

So is this sour wine grape juice, I don't think God wants us to drink alcohol-Old wine.  He wants us to wisely take in grape juice.  Do you think the Lord God drank grape juice at His death or was it vinegar as I heard before.

Thanks for respectful comments,

Andrew

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Wine and other alcoholic drinks are frequently mentioned in the Bible. If something sinful or beneficial exists about these beverages, then the Bible will show it. What does the Bible really say about wine and alcohol?

The bible talks of two types of wine in the bible.  One is fermented the other is unfermented wine.  Proverbs 20:1 clearly states that, "wine is a mocker."  But also using principle of first mention- Wine is first used to get Noah drunk and uncovered.  Secondly wine is last mentioned as the wine of abominations that incurs the wrath of God.  This wine of abominations is clearly not good.  So it is likened to abominations in Revelation.  I hope this helps.

Blessings,

Andrew

Andrew

In the ancient world people drank fermented drinks; fermentation was the only available preservative. The wine was fermented in wine skins, which would expand as the juice produced gas as it was fermented. The wine was often mixed with water and consumed. The alcohol content was probably less than modern alcohol, but drinking large amounts of wine did produce intoxication " and said to her, "How long are you going to stay drunk? Put away your wine." 1
1 Samuel 1:14. Alcohol was a part of the Jewish culture and still is, and wine was utilized as a drink of offering and celebration. 

Deut 14:23-26 "Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away),  then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice."
Many Christian religions adopted abstinence in the United States. In the industrial era where many other alternative drinks were available and potable water became common place; temperance became popular. It was then that many Christian organizations began to advocate for banning alcohol. The SDA Church was formulated during this time, and also adopted the policy of abstinence. I believe that this was a wise choice because of the preponderance of alcoholism that began to pollute the United States. I think it was a bad idea for the government to ban alcohol because it should be an individual choice. But, churches should be active in helping addicts and should continue with strong abstinence policies.
Yet, it is disingenuous to misrepresent the word of God. We must tell the truth about how alcohol was used without justifying its contemporary use.   The bible gives provisions for slavery, polygamy, and relegates women to a place of servitude. These actions are a result of man's sinful ignorance and we have thankfully grown to understand Gods true purpose. It makes better sense to be honest about the use of alcohol and to tell Christians that there are better options for consumption, so it should be avoided because of the risk that it carries.
Leon

Leon

This is a difficult text context////

Study all scriptures, not one in isolation

Andrew

Grape juice is a superior anti cancer cleanser, but unfortunately cannot be obtained from stores any more

It must be fresh, squashed by feet and stored raw .... not reconstituted water stuff...and not alcoholic

The gall stuff given to Jesus was a pain killer, He refused to take it...

These questions are best answered studying Hebrew culture first try Jeff Benner, Ancient Hebrew

Shalom

Rob

You are indicating that I am taking these text out of context? I am not advocating for the use of alcohol, I am don't imbibe. Yet, I do think honesty is the best policy. We shouldn't take the path of propaganda which let to the poor decisions of prohibition. We cannot lie and legislate morality. Instead we should be pragmatic in our approach to advocating for sober living.

And Rob, the majority of Hebrew scholars agree that alcohol was a part of Jewish culture.

Leon

The best Hebrew scholar I trust is EGW
Hebrews did not drink alcohol.....as a majority rule...
drc.whiteestate.org
drc.whiteestate.org/files/609.pdf
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
cluded that the born—again Christian will abstain from alcoholic beverages. ..... Hebrew: kal makhmetzeth lo tokalu, "everything fermented ye shall not eat.".
drc.whiteestate.org
drc.whiteestate.org/files/609.pdf
whiteestate.org
whiteestate.org/godsmessenger/lesson_plans/9-12/11-12/.../csa_14.pdf
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
ically her stories about Daniel and his Hebrew friends in Babylon. I now have adopted the .... parents had emphasized abstinence from alcohol. They had.....
Shalom

Herbert, you are correct regarding wine and alcohol in the Bible. IT IS NOT THE DRINKING OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES THAT IS A SIN, IT IS THE OVER-CONSUMPTION OF SUCH THAT LEADS TO NOT ONLY DRUNKENNESS, BUT SOMETIMES OTHER SINS; OF SEXUAL SINS, VIOLENCE ETC.

But the same could be said of food, it is not the eating of food, but the over-consumption that leads to heart disease etc. that is bad. Would you say we should stop eating so as to avoid heart disease? Of course this is ridiculous idea. Yet SDA has this unhistorical notion about grape juice, the so-called two wine position. The Hebrews, the Romans, the Gentiles, even Jesus himself drank wine with alcohol. PERIOD. Sorry Rob, your just not accurate.

I am not impressed at all with either some of the SDA "Bible Research" and those doctrines that are slanted towards EGW irregardless of truth, true Biblical meanings and principles of the Bible, as well as flying in the face of true history. Other examples are the holy spirit field, including the 9 manifestations and especially the SDA complete lack of understanding or experience with not only speaking in tongues, but all the manifestations of holy spirit. I have stated many times that the word gifts was added in reference to the manifestations of holy spirit which anyone can check by using a Greek Interlinear to the authorized KJV 1611. But that is also a problem with most of Christianity, who also most cannot even get the day that Christ was on the cross and the day he got up correct. The state of Christianity is mostly a lot of religion mixed in with a little bit of truth.

Adult Christians who walk by the spirit should be able to control themselves in drinking moderate amounts of alcoholic beverages if they choose to do so in accordance with safe driving and using time to regulate their consumption as state departments of motor vehicles give guidelines for such. These are things that adults should be able to decide what they should do like with everything else. Banning all alcohol lead to the roaring 20's and the advent of the Mafia, gang land killings, similar to the war on drugs which has also been a great failure and has partially been responsible for the loss of our rights due to these wars on alcohol, and drugs. The do-gooders ban of things leads to the black market for such leading to crime, and gangs and government tyranny.

Thank you do-gooders for helping to destroy the country through such means as prohibition. I am not for use of drugs for recreational use, but ok for medical, and we should be able to use whatever we want, even foolishly, as long as we don't harm anyone else, that was how the Constitution handled these matters until the UN decreed the drug war which Nixon started, in accordance with the UN policies, again New World Order encroaching again, while the same New World Order and the US government is involved in smuggling drugs, and banks launder the money. CIA etc. benefit, and the putting of millions of people in prison for possession etc. of drugs is insane, and the private prison system, the lawyers, the judges, the police etc. all benefit from the law enforcement growth industry, at the expense of the country.

The country is going to hell and most Christians sit on their duff and do little, most churches don't even offer any form of deliverance for demonization by alcohol, drugs, and all the other multitude of demons, and 99.99% don't know the first thing about such matters, are afraid, ignorant and fail to walk by the spirit of God in power. Sorry to be so critical, but it is true. Like Sex, alcohol can be both good or bad, depending. I don't drink much, I have gone years without any alcohol. Sometimes I will have a few beers on a hot summer day, or a hard drink once in a blue moon.

I never drive even after only having one drink. I do not become belligerent after drinking on those rare occasions when I do, and have not harmed anyone due to alcohol use, or for any other reason for that matter. There are tons of references to wine and its intoxicating ability. No where is wine prohibited in the bible except for the sect of the Nazarenes as far as I know. Only prohibition on drunkenness. Chapter and verse please?

Interesting article James

So the Bible allows for us to damage our health, and thus our minds become dysfunctional on alcohol....is this how our Bible reads health issues ?

Pr 20:1 ¶ Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Both Yayin and Shekar mentioned here as a poetry parallel, one is to avoid drinking

A simple clear text don't you think ?

De 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

This is the only context allowing these two Hebrew words, the context I am not sure....

All other verses condemn the use of these two Hebrew words

SHalom

Rob

There are many more verses indicating the use of alcohol than those that condemn it. The responsible thing to do is to present the truth, and to give the best advice according to the current guidance of the Holy Spirit. I believe it makes more sense to abstain from alcohol. There are much better options. One could argue that it is present in scripture, and I would counter with the many issue that are caused by alcohol consumption, and that it is no longer a necessary drink due to many other options and in most places an abundance of potable water.

Leon

Show me some verses Leon of alcoholic wine in positive light in Scripture

Only in context is yayin sometimes with alcohol

A Hebrew word meaning fresh juice

 Song 8:2 I would lead thee, and bring thee into my mother's house, who would instruct me: I would cause thee to drink of spiced wine of the juice of my pomegranate.


 Isa 49:26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob. {sweet: or, new}


 Joe 1:5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.

A Parallel of Yayin with Fresh juice..... interesting....


 Joe 3:18 ¶ And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim. {flow: Heb. go}

Fresh juice is a simile of milk in terms of goodness.....


 Am 9:13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. {soweth: Heb. draweth forth} {sweet: or, new}
(KJV)

Yayin is made by treading out the juice

Isa 16:10 And gladness is taken away, and joy out of the plentiful field; and in the vineyards there shall be no singing, neither shall there be shouting: the treaders shall tread out no wine in their presses; I have made their vintage shouting to cease

There is no verse indicating they fermented yayin

There is a Hebrew word for SWELL for bread rising, but they did not use the word for ferment....

Grape juice left stored too long goes racid and sour, not nice wine.... maybe sometimes they got lucky, but there is no Hebrew word for ferment

Shalom

Rob

Ellen White did not claim to be a Hebrew scholar, so it is unwise to rely on her as an expert. What you are doing is gathering the evidence that supports your point of view. It is opinion based evidence that is inconsistent with scripture.

Leon

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