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I'm not sure about these passages...  One says this, "No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake and your frequent infirmities."  1 Timothy 5:23 is this talking about new wine grape juice?

Also this text in John 19:29,30

"Vs 29 Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. Vs 30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, It is finished!"  And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

So is this sour wine grape juice, I don't think God wants us to drink alcohol-Old wine.  He wants us to wisely take in grape juice.  Do you think the Lord God drank grape juice at His death or was it vinegar as I heard before.

Thanks for respectful comments,


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Yes, we don't search the scriptures to support our beliefs, but rather we search and study and pray that we be lead to and find and believe and follow the truth, where ever it leads to.

It is unfortunate that most Christians put their denomination above God's Word. Many believers are abandoning the institution of the so called church, but following God in the spirit and fellowship with other beleivers in the home or over the phone. Many of the denominations are lead or even started by Masons, and the design is to prevent by false doctrine the truth and the operation and power of the holy spirit from being known. The Luciferians have infiltrated all the denominations, and they are in control at the top.

They denounce anyone who leaves their organizations, and many claim that something bad including eternal death will happen if you leave the organizational structure.

We are supposed to follow Christ, He is the head, from which the one body of Christ spiritually gets its direction and inspiration, and marching orders. Why is it that most so called Christians are carnal, not understanding that the church is all the believers who have holy spirit in them, not an organization which is a government sanctioned 501(c)(3) with a worldly corporate structure and not Biblically organized as in the one body of Christ.

The witchcraft and sorcery and false teachings have entered ALL the denominations, even if they were not there to begin with. They are in apostasy, a falling away from God. Even here at this site we discussed and it was shown that witchcraft has entered via not only doctrines, but even the logo and JohnB's all seeing eye identification, file name BigBrother, all confirmed by former witch Julie and confirmed by the holy spirit also. Several other people operating witchcraft have been noted here on this site, which is not unusual, as ALL churches have infiltration, and even those that are pastors are often practicing the occult, from visualization to even human sacrifices in the very church they preach in the day used at night for Satanic Ritualistic Abuse and human sacrifice.

Those often professing to be Christian are actually Jezebel spirited church destroyers causing havoc, sin and destruction. This is happening all over the world. These are the last days and Lucifer is pulling out all the stops, because he doesn't have much time left. Every day thousands of children are abducted, used for sexual and Satanic abuse and killed, eaten and their blood drank by Luciferians, and the churches say nothing about it whatsoever. Surviving victims have come forward, but the churches turn their back on it, don't believe it, and are apathetic about the important issues, including the systematic kiling of millions of Christians and others in Syria, all supported by CIA, the military and the White House and MI6 (British Intelligence).

Yes, I would not rely on EGW as a Hebrew scholar either.

Actually EGW never wrote or knew Hebrew, she was a prophet doing as she was told to write, the Bible is written in Hebrew, both OT and NT, what we have is GOD translating the Hebrew into English for EGW and the new Hebrews hoping for salvation, ie SDA in the end of time.....

For proof the Holy Spirit wrote Hebrew thoughts in her English, click here for my study of 100 words she used....



This is equivalent to religious subterfuge. You are obscuring fact with complicated and erroneous information. 



Subterfuge | Definition of Subterfuge by Merriam-Webster

Define subterfuge: the use of tricks especially to hide, avoid, or get something—subterfuge in a sentence
Your words are cruel....did you actually read my link? In fairness to you, I am doing a study comparing Martin Luther and EGW on just 10 words to see how both stack up against Hebrew meanings in Scripture, and so far in my studies EGW comes up 100% against Jeff Benner's Ancient Hebrew meanings for words, and Martin Luther is around 50%....
So far I found Luther really good for some words, but not all
For example

Thus the word Kirche (church) means really nothing else than a common assembly and is not German by idiom, but Greek (as is also the word ecclesia); for in their own language they call it kyria, as in Latin it is called curia. Therefore in genuine German, in our mother-tongue, it ought to be called a Christian congregation or assembly (eine christliche Gemeinde oder Sammlung), or, best of all and most clearly, holy Christendom (eine heilige Christenheit).

The Hebrew word qahal means assembly and in English "church", is confirmed by EGW and Luther, but Luther does this word best....

If your going to criticize a person's study you have to read the study, as I did for Kerry, I read his whole 450 page book against EGW, the attacking was relentless, but I emailed him about 4 times pulling his book apart piece by piece, after a while he gave up emailing me...he could not counter my points... sure you can discredit EGW as a person, but I prefer to study her words....they can be easily tested for Hebrew....and if you find a word that's not Hebrew in thought, she is no longer 100% inspired....



I am not attacking you, just your ideology. I think that your conclusions are very subjective and often so obscure that they are far outside of what is considered mainstream Christian ideology.


James is right. We need to follow Christ and be lead by the Holy Spirit. 

I know this will not be understood by most Adventists but, I drink a fermented drink called Kumbacha for the healing of my stomach and detoxification.  There is no alcohol or anything in it only the good bacteria and enzymes that are missing form the modern diet.  If I do not ferment this kumbacha enough, there is sugar in it. If I ferment it to much it becomes vinegar.  The reason I am setting myself up for ridicule here is that in the modern world and diet the healthy bacteria, flora and fauna that our digestive system needs is not there.  Even in the super vegan diet of many Adventist it is not what it should be.  In the ancient world, everything was fermented whether they wanted it or not.  So I would suspect that there was alcoholic wine and then there were various forms of juice in various forms of fermentation that was non alcoholic. 

Hello Bart

Or they may have consumed fermented drinks. We can perpetuate myths or teach the truth.


They did but there are ways to control fermentation and it would seem they understood well how to do it and what old and new wine was. There is no excuse for drinking alcohol.

Your previous comment was good Bart, but I would say Hebrew people did NOT know fermentation, as there is no Hebrew word for ferment, not even for bread, when they used yeast, the Hebrew word for this is "raise" not ferment....

As far as I know fermentation wine was rare, but it was known by some Roman times


Yes, in Galatians 5:9 and in other scriptures "leaven" is mentioned.  I do not know how the Hebrew people of that time leavened bread and I do understand that leaven does represent sin. I also understand that how we do it now for sour dough is to capture a yeast that works well in a culture called herman and then leaven the dough with this culture.  I am curious what you know of this and how Jews of that time did this.  Many people suffer from yeast called "candida". Everyone has this yeast but when it is out of balance with other fauna due to poor diet it can cause huge problems for the body.   I have really been studying this because my sister is very ill due to prolonged use of antibiotics and is trying restore what her body needs. 


How you make those statements is beyond me.  This is the Hebrew word for ferment תוצאות

תרגום לעברית עבור


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