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I would understand if anybody feels another thread on the issue of ordination is an overkill. I have posted previously in threads by Sis Sarah Sulton that the CUC action last Sunday in support of the ordination of women as pastors and elders opens the floodgates for major apostasy in the church. Perhaps it was hidden, but there is wording in the CUC vote that is extremely disturbing. Please reread it and you will notice the phrase "without regard to gender...". Perhaps unknown to many, the world has been pushing for the recognition of a third gender, which is normally associated with homosexuality. Please see below (I post this with sensitivity, appreciating that there are persons born with indeterminate gender, persons too who are welcome to the faith).


The fact that CUC voted against biblical counsel and ignored appeals by the world church leders is worrying enough. Perhaps inadvertently, or perhaps deliberately, the inclusion of the words "without regard to gender" reveals the direction that the apostasy is likely to take. In it, the homosexual agenda has found another window through which it will sneak into the church. I pray that time proves me wrong, and that the Adventist church will by God's grace survive this onslaught.


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I relly find it hard these days to imagine how the adventist church will overcome the incessant attacks but only one thing keeps me moving the church is built on the rock that shall last for edges JESUS CHRIST but lets not forget our part in ths work sigh and cry for the abomintions done in Jerusalem

I Kings 14: 22-24

22 And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins  which they had committed above all that their fathers had done.

23 For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree.

24 And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

For clarification:  are you implying with your text that women in ministry are sodomites?  Just want to be clear.

Thanks for your answer, even though not directed at you.  It speaks loud and clear.

Dan wrote:

Perhaps it was hidden, but there is wording in the CUC vote that is extremely disturbing. Please reread it and you will notice the phrase "without regard to gender...". Perhaps unknown to many, the world has been pushing for the recognition of a third gender, which is normally associated with homosexuality. 

There are clear differences between gender (which is visable and cannot change) and lifestyle/behavior (which is transient and does change).  Homosexuality is condemned directly as sin because of the lifestyle/behavior.  CUC was and continues to be very clear that homosexuality is not being endorsed, suggested, nor is being entertained any in way, as they believe in the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and most importantly, as followers of the Living God.

If there genuinely that concern, an amendment to the vote can specify that transgendered individuals are excluded.  But be clear:  There is no way anyone can get gender = homosexuality.....because it does not.  Frankly, they are two separate issues, and the hype in trying to put them together is ridiculous.



For a long time homosexuals were known as "the third gender". Although the use dropped off around the time of the gay rights movement it is still in use in some quarters. It is also very much in use in India, Nepal and parts of SE Asia.

You may recognise it as being hype but as the term has been in use for over 300 years I doubt that your denial will prevent it being used.

If one looks at the history of WO in other denominations it emerges as a pattern that as soon as women are ordained there are calls to recognise their female partners and the relationships that they are in. The next step is the movement towards the ordination of openly gay men and women.

This is the pattern whether one likes it or not. Once you destroy a Biblical basis for the "priesthood" it is gone forever. The next step will be for the ordination of gay men and women on the basis that it is unfair and unloving to discriminate against them just because of their sexual orientation. It will be pointed out that if a male priesthood has been replaced with a priesthood without regard to gender then there should be no discrimination because of gender-attraction, i.e. that sexuality is also unimportant to God.

I see no reason why the SDA church should follow any other pattern then the one that has gone before. Once the Bible is removed as the touchstone for behaviour then all we have left is opinion - and it was opinion that was the basis for the removal of gender-qualification.

We will see how long that last. He is right about the creeping compromise.  Unless the document defined gender, it is open to interpretation.

This whole issue comes at the heals of the release of the Seventh Gay Adventist movie.

All this controversy is coming in flux.  If we do not need biblical support for woman ordination, then we do not need it either for homosexual ministers.  Do no think they will sieze this event to help their cause, whether you agree with it or not.


You correctly stated:

"If we do not need biblical support for woman ordination, then we do not need it either for homosexual ministers."

And you can add to that, "we do not need biblical support for which day of the week to worship on. 

This started when permission was given to wear the wedding ring.  Some of us at that time warned as to where it would lead.  Right on cue, it has led to ordaining anyone who will.  And on cue, it will lead to ordaining homosexuals, a change in the day of worship, etc. 

As others have said, this is just one more step in the pattern of creeping compromise.  When humans can place their opinion above what God has said, there is no place that they will stop in the headlong drive to follow Satan and his program. 

As we are coming into the end of time, those who refuse to submit to God's instructions will be allowed to serve Satan.  With the withdrawal of the Holy Spirit, Satan will have full control.  Oh, they will protest that they are only making one change, but that is all it takes to start down the road to eternal destruction.  A road that the CUC has now defiantly embarked on.  July 29, 2012 is a day that will go down in infamy.


Maranatha :)



Yes Ray and Jay, and the list can go on;;; right?  simply because there is no Biblical support as argued or the Bible is silent.



Not so, in fact, Dan is right on target.  Homosexuals have already been ordained as local elders and I believe at least in one case as a pastor.  So, this is history, not somthing that will come.  Dan is correct that this is where this movement is headed.


Maranatha :)

It is not.


If I may quote someone. 

"In your opinion."




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