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I would understand if anybody feels another thread on the issue of ordination is an overkill. I have posted previously in threads by Sis Sarah Sulton that the CUC action last Sunday in support of the ordination of women as pastors and elders opens the floodgates for major apostasy in the church. Perhaps it was hidden, but there is wording in the CUC vote that is extremely disturbing. Please reread it and you will notice the phrase "without regard to gender...". Perhaps unknown to many, the world has been pushing for the recognition of a third gender, which is normally associated with homosexuality. Please see below (I post this with sensitivity, appreciating that there are persons born with indeterminate gender, persons too who are welcome to the faith).

http://books.google.co.ke/books?hl=en&lr=&id=v_y4BEZUmOIC&a...

 

The fact that CUC voted against biblical counsel and ignored appeals by the world church leders is worrying enough. Perhaps inadvertently, or perhaps deliberately, the inclusion of the words "without regard to gender" reveals the direction that the apostasy is likely to take. In it, the homosexual agenda has found another window through which it will sneak into the church. I pray that time proves me wrong, and that the Adventist church will by God's grace survive this onslaught.

 

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Othniel

 

Thanks for posting that information.  Hopefully it will be accepted.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

Allow me to join the commendations to Othniel for posting this information, I have found it immensely useful in explaining how the church organs relate. It also helps me to see what CUC did in its proper light (or lack thereof).
Allow me to join the commendations to Othniel for posting this information, I have found it immensely useful in explaining how the church organs relate. It also helps me to see what CUC did in its proper light (or lack thereof).

It's very clear in so many examples throughout society that anyone who says homosexuality is "just a lifestyle" and not an inherent condition (or something like gender), would be accussed of being conservative and anti-gay.  But when liberals want to support a certain agenda, which is so obviously likely to lead to acceptance of homosexuality in the ministry, they change their colors and deny that it has anything to do with the issue of homosexuality, say they don't have any idea what we're talking about, even go so far as to claim they don't understand why it would ever be suggested that anyone would think homosexuality is anything more than merely a lifestyle choice.

 

I guess some people haven't been in tune with what's actually happening with this movement?  Or perhaps not aware that virtually all people on the side of the homosexuality vehemently deny that it's merely a lifestyle choice, and argue strongly that it is an inherent, inborn trait which cannot be changed. In essence, they are claiming it's very much like gender, even if they don't outright call it the third gender any more. 

 

I don't mean to be sarcastic argumentative or unkind in this statement, but I do believe it's important for people to be aware of the kind of illogical "tactics" that are being used by those who are trying to promote this agenda.  I would almost bet you that those in charge of making this decision, who worded this clause "without regard to gender," many of whom very likely support the acceptance of homosexuality into the ministry, would also use some of the same tactics and arguments- such as denying that this has anything to do with homosexuality, or trying to say they don't even know why we would ever bring it up for discussion because they think the two discussions are unrelated, etc.  These are things to be aware of.   The serpent, (Satan) has a forked tongue- he speaks out of two sides of his mouth- saying one thing, then saying something entirely opposite- just according to what is to his advantage for that moment, and like a cameleon who changes his colors according to the situation.  There are so many lessons from nature to warn us of the nature of evil.

 

 

Hi Vicky

It's very clear in so many examples throughout society that anyone who says homosexuality is "just a lifestyle" and not an inherent condition (or something like gender), would be accussed of being conservative and anti-gay.


thank you for your insights my sister.  I refuse to be caught napping on this homosexuality topic as God is clear on it.  Sadly, as you point out, the devil is busy, day and night, planting doubt in out minds, ... different tactics for different days including redefining the meaning of homosexuality/gay and therefore solution to (whether necessary or not is another matter altogether).

Here are some insights from the book of nature about the subject of the leadership structure in the church and home, that I posted recently in a discussion about women's ordination with CUC: 

God has done a beautiful thing in creating order and structure in the family and church. We all agree that every organization needs a leader, right? (That's not being discriminatory- unless we believe all leadership is inherently unethical and want society to dissolve into anarchy). So why is it evil to say that God chose men? Not only is the Bible clear from beginning to end that God chose men as leaders, but it is also clear that he has physically equipped them for leadership.  Basic common sense tells us that this is the reason why God made men taller, stronger and with naturally louder and more authoritative sounding voices than women. Not only did He do this, but He came to earth Himself and modeled the beautiful humility of servant leadership, so that no man should ever have any excuse to act arrogant and "lord it over" women in the name of Christ- because that would be totally contrary to the spirit of Christ.

 

I’ve known quite a few men who are shorter than I am, but they weren’t the slightest bit feminine. So, there is no logical reason for God to have made men on average taller than women, since they would have been every bit as masculine as they are now even if they were on average exactly the same height as women, instead of taller. The only logical reason for God to have made this distinction in height would have been that His intention was for it to be a sign of His designation of their leadership. This is a classic example of something that is "as plain as the nose on your face,” so to speak- so plain and so clear that it’s virtually incontrovertible evidence.

 

If those obvious manifestations weren't enough to help us understand, consider how God created in the anatomy of the human heart (symbol for love) this exact relationship of male and female- with the right side of the heart being more delicate and smaller, playing an assistive/receiving role, while the left side is stronger and larger and takes the primary role of ministering to the body by pumping blood out to the whole body.

 

One thing that is so beautiful about the model of the human heart, is that both sides are NEARLY equal. This can be seen all throughout the body in multiple examples- the hands, feet, brain, eyes, etc. are all similar examples, and give us deeper insight into God’s intentions for the relationship between men and women. In all of these cases, the two sides are nearly equal in every way, yet one takes a leadership role and one assists. In the hands, for example, nearly everyone has a slightly weaker, more feminine, delicate hand, and one that is stronger and takes the lead role with the other assisting. My right hand actually looks just slightly masculine and the left more feminine (because of the muscle development related to work).  The brain teaches us that God intended for men and women to communicate with each other and reach conclusions together- as we see that the two hemispheres have a huge communication device between them.  We see from the eyes that God gives greater depth perception when both perspectives are considered.  Anyone who tries to suggest that all decisions should be made by the man without considering carefully his wife’s perspective is trying to create a diseased situation which is more like what happens when someone has a stroke- and one side of the body, brain are completely flaccid and inactive. In the case of a stroke, even that eye on that side of the body is often blind or partially so.

 

We speak of the body of Christ, the example of the heart may be God’s intention to show us what a pastoral ministry team of men and women leadership together (ideally husband and wife) - with the man taking the lead role, and woman assisting, etc. because with both perspectives represented in the pastoral leadership the ministry is more complete. The heart ministers to the body (of Christ) by giving it the life blood- which in this case would be ministering the blood of Christ to each part of His body through the priestly ministry. 

 

These lessons also affirm the beauty and importance of the differences between the two genders, according to God's will.

 

 

Romans 1:20 KJV

 


The truth of "God" is known by nature, even in the creation story.

 

"Elohim" -- The Godhead -- Made in the "image".  What does it mean?  Why does it matter?

 

Does it say, "in the image of God...male and female", and who first called her "Eve", and at that, after sin had entered?  God call them "Adam".

 

See Gen. 1:27, 5:2.

 

Gen. 3:16 "...and he shall rule over thee".  If stated by God as a fact certain to be, what was the condition of things before?  And if Adventism is a system appointed of God to restore all things, where are we headed?

 

Does The "Lord" say now, "restore"?  See Mat. 17:11 KJV.

 

 

Mal. 4:4-6 KJV.

 

 

Take Care

 

Walt

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