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Pauls writings, is it above our messengers writings, EGW writings ? or possibly equal by Gods standards.

 

They are both inspired writings,  one is of the Bible, the other

is the Spirit of Prophecy. please  be patient with me, as i brought

this to our forum, for you to give and share  your opinion about these

two individuals, they are both sinners and both inspired by God.

your views are most welcomed.

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The Visions of Ellen G. White

W. C. White Statements Regarding Mrs. White and Her Work

(Remarks of W. C. White in Takoma Hall, December 17, 1905)

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As I meet our people in different places, the question is often asked me, "Does Sister White have visions just as she used to years ago? Are the matters she presents to the church now brought to her mind just as they were in the early days?"

In answer to this question, I explain that all the way through her experience, since she was called to public work and began to speak and write at sixteen years of age, matters have been presented to her just as they are today. In the night season the angel of the Lord would appear to her, and lead her to assemblies where she would hear the councils of the church, where she would see what was going on in the world. And then He would instruct her with reference to what she had seen. That method of instruction has continued all through the years.

Soon after she began this work, there was great confusion among Adventist believers, and there was great fanaticism and much unbelief. In order that man might know by physical sense that the visions given to her were from God, she was given many visions in which she would fall helpless to the floor, stop breathing, and yet her heart beat, and she would speak. Many times I have been present when she was thus in vision. I will mention only the first and the last that I remember.

The first one I witnessed as a little boy in the meetinghouse at Roosevelt, New York. Father had given a short talk. Mother had given a short talk. Father prayed; Mother prayed; and as she was praying, I heard that shout, Glory. There is nothing like it--that musical, deep shout of Glory. She fell backward. My father put his arm under her. In a little while her strength came to her. She stood up in an attitude of one seeing wonderful things in the distance, her face illuminated, sometimes bright and joyous. She would speak with that musical voice, making short comments upon what she was seeing. Then as she saw the darkness in the world, there were sad expressions as she spoke of what she saw. This continued ten or fifteen minutes. Then she caught her breath, breathed deeply several times, and then, after a little season of rest, probably five or ten minutes, during which time Father spoke to the people, she arose and related to the congregation some of the things that had been presented to her.

The last vision to which I was a witness where these peculiarities were manifested was at Battle Creek, in the house where we lived for many years, on the corner of Washington and Champion Streets. It was during a Biblical Institute, which began December 15, 1874, and continued for several weeks. The Review of December 22, 1874, says that there were about 150 in attendance at the Institute. During December a very severe form of influenza had been passing around. Several in the family had it, and it fastened itself upon Mother. She was prostrated and very sick. Father began to fear it was taking hold of her so that she would not have strength to recover. Therefore, as was his custom in such times of peril, he decided to call the elders of the church to pray for her. In response to his call, on the afternoon of January 3, 1875, Elders J.

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H. Waggoner and Uriah Smith came to the house with Father. Mother was brought down to the parlor and sat well-wrapped-up in a rocking chair. Members of the family, including Mrs. Lucinda Hall, Elder J. O. Corliss, and myself were present.

After a few remarks by my father, very earnest prayers were offered by each of the visiting ministers. Then Father prayed. After Father's prayer, Mother began to pray. She spoke with great effort in a very hoarse, labored voice. After a few sentences her voice broke clear and musical, and we, looking up, saw that a great change had come over her. Her hands were clasped, her eyes uplifted, as she clearly said, "Glory to God."

Then with a quick movement she threw aside the blankets with which she was wrapped and stepped forward, her eyes looking upward as if viewing something of greatest interest. Wringing her hands, and with a look of intense sorrow, she exclaimed, "Dark, dark, so dark!" Later, her face brightened and she exclaimed, "Light! A little light! More light! Much light!"

The scene presented to her at this time, as explained to us afterward, was first the darkness with which the world is enshrouded. A similar view led Isaiah to exclaim, "Darkness covers the earth, and gross darkness the people." As she viewed this darkness, lights appeared. At first she saw little glimmering lights, which grew brighter and clearer and stronger, until the whole world was full of light.

The disciples of Christ are to hold up their light, wherever they are. By them other torches will be lighted. Each is to burn brighter, and light other lights until the whole earth is illuminated with the love and knowledge of God.

This vision lasted abut ten minutes. During the last half of the time Mother had resumed her seat in the rocking chair. At the close she took three deep breaths and then resumed her natural breathing. She sat silent and appeared to be absorbed in contemplation of the vision. Father then kneeled by her chair and said, "Ellen, you have been in vision."

"Yes," she replied.

He then asked if she wished to tell us what had been presented to her. She said, "Not now." Then Sister Hall led her to her room. We all saw that she had been healed. But she seemed overwhelmed with the thoughts of what had been presented to her.

Father and Brethren Smith and Waggoner returned to their work at the Review and Herald office, in preparation for the general meeting. But a few hours later Father returned, and said to Mother, "Ellen, there is a meeting at the church tonight. Will you attend?"

"Yes," she said, "I will go." Soon she walked with Father to the meeting through the snow. The sickness, the weakness, and the hoarseness were gone. She was well again.

At the meeting Father gave a very short address, and then Mother spoke with ease and freedom about twenty minutes. On the following day she spoke again and at greater length about the broadening of our work. She said that the message must be carried to many lands, and that she had seen printing presses running in many foreign countries, printing papers and books containing the third angel's message.

At this point Father interrupted her, saying, "Ellen, can you name some of those countries?"

She hesitated a moment, and then said, "No, I do not recall the names, but I should recognize the places if I saw them. Only one name I remember the angel said, 'Australia.'"

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Elders Haskell and Corliss heard this and always kept Australia in mind, until in May, 1885, with several others they sailed from San Francisco and opened up the work in Australia and New Zealand.

Regarding the continuance of the visions. The remarkable physical manifestations which accompanied the day visions have not been seen in recent years. But the night visions have continued from 1844 until the present time. Frequently the angel of the Lord appears to her in connection with revelations of varied character.

Besides the night visions there are many ways in which instruction is given to her. Here is an illustration:

At one time there was a group of young people boarding with Mother in her Healdsburg home, some helping her in her work, and some were students and teachers in the school. A peculiar temptation came to one of the teachers. She had taken a nicely woven hair net of Mother's and put it in her trunk. Mother made diligent inquiry about this net. She searched the house for it, and said, "It must be found. It could not go away by itself." One day she was passing through a room to reach another and a voice said to her, "Lift the lid of that trunk." It was a thing so different from her ordinary life, to look into another person's trunk. But the voice said to her again, "Lift the lid of that trunk." She did so and there saw the missing net. Instead of telling what she had seen, she made inquiry again about the net, and said, "I am sure you will find it." She pressed the matter so hard that the one who had taken the net felt that she must get rid of, and so she destroyed it. She felt that she could not return it after what had been said about it.

One day as Mother was sitting at the fireplace, a picture appeared before her eyes of that young lady holding the net over a lamp and burning it. When Mother saw that there was a determined purpose not to confess the transgression, she told the young lady what she had seen, and she confessed it all. She said, "I do not know why I took it. I do not know why I did not bring it back when you first spoke of it." She was a young woman of beautiful character except one thing. All her life long she had been indulged and trained to selfishness. Evidently the Lord gave her that experience to reveal that trait. After this she made a decided reformation, lived a new life. The Lord meant that to save her from more serious things.

Many a time when Mother is writing, she stops, and as she waits and prays a thought is flashed into her mind, full of additional instruction as to what to write. As I speak of these things, you will recognize in each one of these forms of presentation parallels of the experiences of the prophets as recorded in the Bible. Many times when some matter of special importance requiring wisdom and judgment is about to present itself, sometimes when mighty decisions are soon to be made in a meeting, or important policies to be adopted in institutional work, she will live over the whole experience in advance. In a night vision, perhaps months before, the angel of the Lord is there to tell her what is coming and what to adopt. (The angel is the same one that she speaks of in her first writings as the "young man." She speaks of him now as "our instructor," or "our counsellor." Having passed through these experiences and heard instruction as to what course should be taken when the issue comes, and matters develop just as they were presented to her in the vision, she knows what counsel to give and what course to pursue.

Many things are presented to her in picture and in figure. Some of you will remember that beautiful chapter in the last of The Great Controversy in which is described the experience of God's people who have been in dungeons and hiding places, and as they come, a voice sounds forth, "They come! they come! holy,

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harmless, and undefiled." When Mother was writing the last chapters of The Great Controversy she was heard three times in the night uttering these words as the scene was presented to her over and over. One morning she said, "Now I have got it. I know where to place it. I have found its relation."

Sometimes important warnings are presented to her in figure, and it is not told her whether the act represented in the figure has occurred, or is to occur in the future, or whether it is a representation of that of which there is danger and which should be carefully avoided.

One time when we were far away from Battle Creek, which had been our home, we received a message that a brother had been disfellowshiped from the church. As I read the letter, I said, "Oh, Mother, Brother A has been disfellowshiped from the church." She said, "Yes." She did not seem to be surprised. I said, "Will you tell me what it was for?" "Yes," she said, "too much affection for a young lady." "Will you tell me who?" She named the person. I asked, "How did you know all this?" She said, "Some months ago they were represented to me as standing in a public place, he with his arm around her, and she looking lovingly into his face. I did not know at the time whether it was a picture of an actual occurrence or a warning as to something that they should avoid."

Sometimes the question comes to me, What would you say if you read a testimony of reproof for something that has never been done? I would say, Accept that as a caution and keep so far away from it that it might never occur. Let me tell you an incident along this line:

There was a brother with whom I was associated in Australia, who said to me, "Brother White, I am in trouble. I am in serious trouble, because your mother has written me a letter reproving me for something that I never did. I am in deep distress. I do not know what to do about it." Then he told me about the reproof.

"My brother," I said, "I am very glad that you have come to me for counsel, because I believe I can help you." Then I told him what I have just related, and many other things in which sometimes the chronology or the geography was not clearly presented.

I also told him how one Sabbath, at Basle, as I was reading Wylie's History of Protestantism, telling about the experience of the Roman armies coming against the Hungarians, and how a large body of persecutors would see a little body of Protestants and become frightened and beat a hasty retreat. As I read it to Mother she interrupted me and told a lot of things in the pages ahead, and told me many things not in the book at all. She said, "I never read about it, but that scene has been presented to me over and over again. I have seen the papal armies, and sometimes before they had come in sight of the Protestants, the angels of God would give them a representation of large armies that would make them flee." I said, "Why did you not put it into your book?" She said, "I did not know where to put it."

I said to this brother, "You and I draw very fine distinctions between the past, the present, and the future. We make a great difference between them. With God, all is present. You and I draw a very fine distinction between an act contemplated, thought of, dwelt upon in the mind, and an act performed. The Lord does not make so much difference as we do. He looks at the thought of the heart, and when He sees in your mind and mine a plan, a desire, to Him it is like the seed of a tree. In it He sees the tree bearing fruit.

"My brother, if you have received a reproof for what you have never done, I advise you to take it as a warning, and shape your course of action so far away from it that it will never occur. Do not flatter yourself that the temptation will pass with a few days or a few weeks. Remember the conquest of self is a life-long work."

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He grasped the thought and said, "I see the point. I thank you for your counsel. I have seen enough of your mother's work to know the power there is in it, the truth there is in it. I accept that as a warning, and I will keep so far away from the evil course referred to that men need never know that I was in need of this caution."

Some months after this complaints were brought to me that this brother was taking the very course regarding which he had protested innocence. For some time he argued that the charges were false, but finally confessed that he had for a long time been following the very course for which he had been reproved.

Technically, as men see and judge, he may have been innocent at the time when he first received the reproof; yet in spirit and motive he may have been guilty all the time.

Sometimes the question is asked, Was Dr. Kellogg reproved for erecting a building in Chicago that never was built? Was there a representation made of buildings there that never were constructed? Yes. Was there a representation made to Ezekiel of a city and a temple that never were built? Why was that representation made to him? Because it was possible that there should be such a city. If the people had walked in the light it would have been built. But they did not walk in the light and the city and temple shown to the prophet never were built. Ezekiel recorded what was shown to him.

While we were in Australia there was presented to Mother in visions of the night large buildings in Chicago, occupied by many enterprises, absorbing the time and energies of our people. It was shown her what it meant to the conferences and the missions in other lands to permit the gathering of means for these buildings. No one had ever written to Mother or told her that there were any such buildings. But she wrote what was presented to her. She saw the buildings, the many enterprises, and the result, and wrote the protest given here against it. I read that before it went, and thought the one to whom it was addressed understood her work well enough to understand its meaning and receive it as a caution. But instead of that, great indignation was stirred up over it. It has been often discussed and the letter quoted as showing the unreliability of the Testimonies.

For some years this was a burden to Mother, but in the summer of 1902, after the organization of the Pacific Medical Missionary and Benevolent Association, the perplexity was cleared away. One day Judge Jesse Arthur and Mrs. Arthur took dinner at Mother's house, and after dinner the matter of the Chicago building was discussed. Judge Arthur told us that he knew something about the plans that were prepared and discussed for a large building in Chicago, and that he had seen the plan that was drawn for such a building by Brother W. K. Loughborough. He told us that Dr. Holmes, who had done much to help in the Chicago work of the Medical Missionary College, and who was an active member of the American Medical Association, was deeply interested that we should have large and acceptable buildings in Chicago, because unless we had a suitable place for our work, it would be impossible to secure favorable recognition from the American Medical Association and the Association of Medical Colleges.

Therefore, Dr. Holmes voluntarily looked up a place and made suggestions regarding plans. Various places were examined; various plans were discussed, great and small. Dr. Holmes was continually leading on to plan for a very large building, and it was thought that the Medical College could occupy a part, part could be given to the dispensary, and several other kindred enterprises could be grouped in this large building. As Judge Arthur described in a general way the

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plans that were being considered for a building, Mother said, "That is what was presented to me," and then she took up the description of the building and went on with it for a while. "Yes," Judge Arthur said, and then proceeded with the description. The conversation was like that of two persons who had been seeing the same things, and in which one would tell a part, and the other would tell a part, and all in perfect harmony. It was considered important that the large building under consideration be erected as soon as possible, because the time was drawing near for the graduation of a class of students from the Medical Missionary College, and the friendly influence of the supervising medical associations was desired. Dr. J. H. Kellogg was in Europe, but his most hearty approval was expected. But on his return he at once raised the question, "Where is the money?" The testimony regarding the large buildings in Chicago had caused him to lose hope that he could raise the necessary funds for their construction.

The message had gone to Dr. Kellogg while he was in Europe. He was not only the leader but also the head and front of that work. It was his plans that gave shape to all that was done. When he saw the Testimony was against what he and his associates desired to do, he called a halt.

The question of personal influence is one that has perplexed many. Some have gotten the idea that personal influence can be brought to bear in such a way as to sway the tenor of the Testimonies this way or that way or the other way, according to the feelings and wishes and desires of those close to Mother.

Those who are best acquainted with Mother's work know that there is a solidity to it that cannot be shaken. There is a part which men have to act in connection with this as well as with every other part of the work of God. Ofttimes there is presented to Mother a view of the field and the work that lies before us. She is shown that if a conference, a church, or a group of men take such and such a course, the result will surely be of such and such a nature, and therefore she must give warning. Ofttimes she must ask our brethren with reference to the progress of the work, that she may know whether the time has come to give her testimony.

While we were in Avondale, struggling to build up the college there, there were great differences of opinion among the members of the board. We had a group of men trained in different schools of experience. They were strong men, and they had many differences of opinion. Some wanted to see rapid progress; others wanted to see great economy and caution exercised; and there were all shades of doctrine regarding finances and school management. I felt that I was well acquainted with Mother's views regarding school work. I had heard her counsels to the Union Conference Committee during the years we were searching for a place and locating the school. I had heard her statements regarding what the school might be. I felt a burden to hasten the work forward along broad lines. Some of the brethren felt that I was anxious to move too fast, willing to run too great risk, and that I was taking unfair advantage of my close connection with Mother to bring her influence into that work to carry out my wishes.

For the sake of those who were thinking along that line, as well as for my own peace of mind and assurance, I decided to keep far away from anything that could be a cause of perplexity to them or to me, and although I wanted counsel very much, I decided to adopt a perfectly safe plan.

In those days we did our school board work deliberately and thoroughly. Sometimes we would counsel for a week. Usually I went home from the board meeting late at night, and then I would tell the Lord before I slept my greatest perplexities and difficulties. Often I prayed, "Lord, guide by whom Thou wilt. If it is by giving special light to Brother Haskell, Brother Hughes,

Life-Changing Visions

Amazingly, in one vision, events concerning the yet-to-happen Civil War were revealed to Ellen. At the time of the vision, the firing on Fort Sumter, which marked the beginning of the war, was yet three months away. After this vision, Ellen solemnly surveyed the room and said, “There are those in this house who will lose sons in that war.” This is especially remarkable given the fact that the prevailing sentiment throughout the North and the South was that war was unlikely, and if it came, it would be brief and result in few casualties. Her extended predictions were astonishingly accurate.

Often highly personal information was revealed in vision. While in Oswego, New York, in 1850, the White family was conducting an evangelistic meeting. The county treasurer, also a lay preacher, was publicly demeaning James White. A young couple attending his meetings went to Ellen asking for clarification. In vision, Ellen saw that the troubled questioner would know within the month what to believe. Within that month it was discovered that the man had stolen $1,000 from the county and his credibility was ruined. The young couple became lifelong members of the church.

In another incident in the early 1870s, James and Ellen attended a camp meeting in Wisconsin. After arriving late, James sat down while Ellen walked straight to the front and stood before the pulpit where a man was preaching. Pointing her finger at him, she said that she had heard his voice in vision. She went on, “Brother, I know a woman in Pennsylvania with two little children. That woman calls you husband and those children call you father and they are hunting everywhere for you and they can’t find you. They don’t know where you are. Right over there is another woman with six children hanging to her skirts and she calls you husband and they call you father. Brother, you have no business in that desk!” The man lunged for the tent flap and disappeared. His brother remained in the meeting and confirmed the truth of Ellen’s words.

While none of these signs and wonders absolutely confirmed that Ellen possessed the gift of prophecy, they certainly drew attention to her ministry in a manner that prompted deeper investigation. For instance, today we can observe the long-term validation of her gift by science. Time and time again her counsels regarding health, spirituality, world events, and scores of other issues proved true.


   

Visionary Health Insight

Jesus said, “And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe” (John 14:29). Jesus doesn’t expect His followers to exercise blind faith. Our confidence in His promise is based upon evidences we have already seen of His goodness and power. As we exercise faith, it grows from a tiny seed to a strong tree that can bear the winds of falsehood and unbelief.

In His promise to the disciples, Jesus acknowledged faith’s cumulative quality. He capitalized on it by telling them not just what would build their faith, but how it would be built. They would see the fulfillment of His words, and they would believe. This would enable them to believe His words before they were fulfilled.

Seeing the fulfillment of the words of Ellen White works similarly. She is a mere vessel through which Christ’s Spirit has worked. Yet her words have been consistently proven true by science and experience. Let us consider her teachings in the light of modern-day research.

Tobacco

The fact that in 1864 Ellen spoke of tobacco as a “slow, insidious, but most malignant poison” doesn’t impress us today given the fact that medical science has so completely unveiled the deadly effects of smoking. But we must remember that it was not until 1957 that the American Cancer Society concluded that smoking was a factor in lung cancer.

When she gave her counsel, her words were not easily discernable. After smoking increased during World War I, it took about 20 years before its menacing harvest was reaped in the form of lung cancer and other diseases. Subsequently, medical science has proved the link between smoking and coronary heart disease, heart attacks, strokes, osteoporosis, chronic bronchitis, emphysema, and miscarriage — as well as lung and a host of other cancers. Amazing, given the fact that at the time Ellen gave her counsel, cigar smoke was used as a cure for lung disease!

Attachments:

we should study lest be found wanting

Attachments:

We should all read and understand that history will be repeated. WW2 was a test run for the world. It will happen again and its called by many names 4th Reich, the New World Order. We should all looking to follow God's order! Instead of man's order! 

http://www.ellenwhitedefend.com/subjects/visions.htm

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