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Pope Propaganda... If you didn't believe in conspiracy theories before, maybe now you should.

See article below; The political situations seem perfectly "set up" for the Pope to wade in and save the day.  Glaringly obvious propaganda promoting the pope everywhere...

I think it might be time to start believing in a few conspiracy theories (though not all, of course, there are some crazy ones out there).  Reading through this article I am amazed at how it seems there are a lot of situations in American politics that seem perfectly "set up" to make the Pope look like just the hero we "need" to wade in and "save the day."  For example, since when did anyone in the US go to jail over their Christian "faith"?  Never- until a month before the Pope's visit!  Now to a lot of people he might look like a glorious savior when he makes all these kind of "wise" and "reasonable" statements about it.  The other thing that sets things up to receive the pope is all the crazy presidential candidates.  GOP candidates, esp the front-runner, are off the wall with crazy ideas which make you think the whole country might soon fall apart if they got elected.  On the other side, you have the email scandal with Clinton.  Here in this article the Pope addresses Trump's ridiculous idea of building a wall between US and Mexico with what appears to be "wise" and "timely" words.  

I just can't believe that all this is mere coincidence how he is being made to look like a wise, mature and wonderful father figure who has just the right thing to say to bless and benefit all the squabbling children of American politics.   They're making him look wonderful and this must be all part of the plan.  If you notice carefully in a lot of news stories and publications there really was a lot of PROPAGANDA going on with this papal visit- trying to get everyone to like him - positive and glowing reports about him and everything he does.

This fits the picture that we have been given in scripture that says how the Pope will be made a world leader just before Christ comes. Psalms (chapter 2, I think) says the nations will "conspire" together.  Revelation 18 indicates how much occult satanism enters political organizations toward the end of time.  I have already posted about how the UN has connections with Alice Baily and the occult - working together with Lucifer (Lucis/Lucifer Trust UN NGO, etc.), the illuminati is setting up everything in the United States to get people to accept Pope Francis as a world leader.  They are creating problems that he can solve and give "counsel" about using the wisdom of obvious truths - but it is all for the purpose of furthering an evil scheme to bring in one-world government and eventually one-world government under Lucifer.

The Vatican is very closely linked with Lucifer and the occult through symbolism and rituals.  Any leadership the Pope has to offer our world would not be for the benefit of humanity.  He is a self-proclaimed infallible God on earth, which the Bible prophecies of as being a blasphemer.  The Pope/vatican is the antichrist.  His official title adds up to "666."  He is the "man" that the Bible says the number 666 is about.

Don't be fooled by this man's apparent "wisdom"....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/govt-workers-have-right-to-refuse-...

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True, Derrick! There are very obvious links and occult symbolism with the Vatican, which also links to the Illuminati/ Free Masonry.  Thanks for sharing.

That article about the Pope's view is excellent Vicki.   We need to remember that processing marriage certificates is not a threat to our religous freedom.  If the government forced us into a gay marriage that would violate our freedom.  If a government worker can not follow the law then he should quit his job.

I agree.

Hello Shannon,

I don't quite understand your perspective if you say it's excellent (as in agree?), then argue for an opposite point.

In regard to saying "we need to remember," that is a phrase that is usually said in regard to some Bible verses or scriptural principle, rather than about something that is merely your viewpoint.

I'm sorry to say, but it is utterly absurd and contrived to say that the only thing in regard to laws about homosexuality which could violate our religious freedom is if the government forced us into gay marriages. What kind of example is that?  How do you call this logic? 

That's obviously something that would likely never happen on Earth in any country at any time in history (for a government to make a law to force anyone to marry a homosexual) - so you have created a test for yourself with such a small likelihood of coming to pass that you will never have to worry about taking a stand for your faith on this issue. 

The thing about being a Christian is that we are to follow Christ and the standards that He sets for us- not creating our own rules according to what will be easy and comfortable.   Truly, if you believe it fits within your faith to legally marry homosexuals then you are making excuses for moral compromise which will never stand up to God's judgment. 

Take care,

Vicki

Shannon 

It seems like you do not have a lot of compassion for the lady who has been forced to do something that her religious conviction forbids her to do. I have seen in earlier posts that you do not think that this has any bearing on how it will be when the Sunday laws will come about. You right in the way it is only affecting the lady and no one else. 

However I do see this as a parable of what will come about when Sunday laws will be enacted. Then all will be forced  to choose if they will follow the directions of the Man of Sin or God's Law. 

Joshua  24:20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good. 21 And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD. 22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses. 23 Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel. ....... 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Vicki,

Would you take a job in liquor store and then claim the right not to sell liquor since it against your religious beliefs?  We all have things that we consider immoral and we shouldn't take a job where we have to do them.  I would not conduct a gay wedding either.

Religious freedom is about your right to worship as you choose, the lady in Kentucky wants to deny that freedom to people whose religion favors gay marriage.  

Gay marriage is not the endtime issue, we know that because our prophet clearly tells us that it will be Sunday laws.  Being forced to worship on Sunday is clearly a violation of our religious freedom, just as being forced into a gay marriage would be.

Hi Shannon,

Well, talking about the question of issuing gay marriages wasn’t really the focus of this post, and it has been discussed on several other threads (such as this one; http://www.adventistonline.com/forum/topics/judge-jails-kentucky-cl...).  And I don’t have a lot of time for discussion, so my intent was not to get deeply into this here.  But I will address a couple of things you have mentioned.

You said “Would you take a job in liquor store and then claim the right not to sell liquor since it against your religious beliefs?”

First, the United States government is not a liquor store.  As I have discussed thoroughly at the above link, the Bible makes it very clear that even secular governments do have some responsibility to the Creator God because of His general revelation of Himself through nature and common sense.  This also explains why all just laws in the world of every government are based on the 10 Commandments.  Governments are not to legislate religion, but they do have some responsibility to be just and fair – and all true justice and fairness originates with God.

Secular governments are not as close to God as the church, and God doesn’t hold them accountable to the more specific requirements that He does the Church, such as Sabbath keeping, which the church has through the “special revelation” of His Word.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 says “He has put eternity in their hearts” and Romans 1 says all men are “without excuse” for not comprehending the attributes of God which are “clearly seen”;

20 “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.”

It’s true that church and state should remain separate in regard to specifics of religion such as day of worship, etc., but it’s also true that all human beings have a measure of responsibility to their Creator and that when nations turn to corruption and evil which becomes very hurtful to the people and society they will be judged by Him. 

You said “Religious freedom is about your right to worship as you choose, the lady in Kentucky wants to deny that freedom to people whose religion favors gay marriage.”  

Religious freedom is about our right to worship as we choose within reason, as long as it fits within common sense guidelines (as discussed above).

For example, the church of Satan chooses to perform human sacrifices or cut someone’s heart out and put it in a box as part of their worship services – but they should not be allowed to do that because it violates the common sense awareness of truth and justice based on principles of the 10 Commandments which God has revealed to mankind through nature and their consciences.

But it’s not just murder that God has given us the common sense to recognize as being obviously wrong, though. The Bible also makes it very clear that rampant homosexuality is one of the corruptions that mark the filling of a nations “cup of iniquity” and nearing close of their probation.  God has judged non-Christian governments with fire and brimstone for the sins of sexual corruption and homosexuality. 

This means that to a certain extent sexual purity versus corruption must be part of the conscience/common sense which God has placed in all men’s hearts, part of the basic “invisible attributes” that are “clearly seen.”  (Ecclesiastes 3:11, Romans 1:20-21). Any child who’s been abused can tell you this is true – they didn’t need a Bible to know they have been violated.

Common sense also tells us that two persons of the same sex cannot produce children, that homosexuality is weird and corrupt, that in the absence of having the ability to sexually unite no marriage can occur.

When sexual immorality and homosexuality takes over the nation and the world it is clearly a sign of impending doom and judgment of God.  So it is not reasonable for Christians to proclaim that homosexual people should have the perfect freedom to “marry” and that Christian government workers who assist them are guiltless.

~

Whether or not gay marriage is “the endtime issue” or not doesn’t give us an excuse for moral compromise.  Homosexuality has been a sin throughout earth’s history.  Participating in giving “marriage” certificates to homosexuals is participating in marrying them - whether or not you actually performed the ceremony.  Christians will be accountable to God for doing something that the Bible condemns.  There can be no excuse before God to be involved in something so corrupt.

In regards to the question of whether or not gay marriage is an end time question – it is too simplistic to proclaim that it’s not an end time issue based on the fact that Ellen White speaks of Sunday Laws being the last crisis.  Obviously there could be other issues before that final crisis.  Not only in theory, but pointed out clearly in scripture.  Consider what Jesus said, Peter, Jude and others.  They all make clear comparisons between Sodom and the final judgment of the world – and that clearly indicates that homosexuality will without question be an issue of the end times;

Jesus;   Luke 17: 28  Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Peter;  2 Peter 2:5 (God) did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly...

Jude;  7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sister White, also said plenty of things she says that makes it extremely clear that world-wide corruption like Sodom and Gomorrah, and generalized sin as the days of Noah, are to happen just before the end of time.  Here’s an example;

"The people are dreaming of prosperity and peace. The multitudes cry, 'Peace and safety,' while Heaven declares that swift destruction is about to come upon the transgressor. On the night prior to their destruction, the cities of the plain rioted in pleasure and derided the warnings of the messenger of God. But that very night the door of mercy was forever closed to the careless inhabitants of Sodom. God will not always be mocked."

 

"The great mass of the world will reject God’s mercy and will be overwhelmed in swift and irretrievable ruin. But those who heed the warning shall dwell 'in the secret place of the most High,' and 'abide under the shadow of the Almighty.'" Psalm 91:1. {From Eternity Past (EP) 105.5}

As we see these things coming to pass, we must prepare our hearts and minds - to present ourselves as a living offering/sacrifice to God, that we may stand before Him blameless on the day of His appearing...  because the signs show us it is obviously coming very soon.

Take care and God bless,

Vicki

That will not work.  People will just take their prejudices and call them religious beliefs.  Under your approach someone who thinks the Bible prohibits inter-racial marriage (and there are Christians who think that) could refuse to issue a marriage license on those grounds.  Religious liberty gives you the right to worship as you choose, not the right to choose what you do on your job.

This is what Adventist evangelist Kevin Paulson said:

But while Bible-believing Christians share Ms. Davis’s conviction that homosexual behavior is sinful, her refusal to grant the same liberty of conscience to others that she seeks for herself makes her profile as a martyr for religious liberty seriously suspect in many thoughtful minds. Ms. Davis is neither a church official nor an employee of a religious institution. In such settings as these, her refusal to endorse or perform gay weddings would be fully within her Constitutional rights, and any attempt by the state to force her to bless such relationships would violate those rights. But as an elected official of a non-theocratic government, she is obligated to serve the interests of all. Her use of civil power both to deny marriage licenses to those whose lifestyle contradicts her religious beliefs, even more her refusal for a time to even permit her deputies to issue these licenses, is more in harmony with papal practices during its years of medieval supremacy than with those martyred for their faith during the same period.

I am not arguing that people should have the right to refuse to do their job based on every little thing they might think the Bible says.

My point is that things like murder and gross sexual corruption do not fall "within reason" of things that should be protected as religious freedoms in our country.

I have said that the government should protect religious freedom within reason - as long as the practice of that religion does not violate some basic and obvious common sense rules that should be evident even without the need of a Bible to figure them out (things that are evident in nature and our consciences which God has revealed to all mankind through general revelation - as opposed to special revelation which God gives to the church through the Bible).

--

In the case where someone has a specific belief about what the Bible says which conflicts with what their job requires them to do, in most cases they should step down and find another job, unless it can otherwise be worked out somehow (like how many SDA's petition to be free from the requirement of belonging to labor unions, etc).

But in the case of something involving gross sexual corruption or murder - such as being asked to marry homosexuals or being asked to allow human sacrifices (abortion, satanic rituals) - it is the government that is wrong and corrupt for requiring anyone to do that as part of their job, and it should be protested even if the worker must go to prison or death for it.

Kevin Paulson is somewhat extremist, as is evident by the statement you posted here.   His statement is a highly intellectual sounding denial of common sense and truth

God bless you, Shannon, as you study this.

Vicki,

Do you have information that Pastor Paulson is extremist other than that you do not agree with him?  I'm not being snarky, I truly don't know anything about him.

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