What is predestination and how does our understanding of it affect our Christian walk?
I am not posting this to cause strive or a debate. I am seeking to understand what predestination is.
Please let us discuss out of love, whisper a prayer before you post
Kindly, reference any quote from SOP (Chapter and page) and from scripture (Chapter and verse) to make follow up easy
Do not be afraid of long posts, just make it as easy to follow as possible. I really appreciate detailed well explained discussions.
No sarcasm please.
thanks Dan for your comment. Especially for the proper reference given in this.
Wow, Ron, this is a beautiful way to look at it. Thanks for your response. It is true that God is all knowing and even when a foetus is forming in his mums womb, God already knows if he'll be lost or saved. I agree with what you have expressed here.
i have another question arising from this though, what do we counsel those who will then be comfortable that God knows those who are his and those who aer not and therefore there is no need of playing our part? There is no room for carelessness in Christianity. We are to be diligent, but most have skewed predestination to allow room for careless living.
Thanks for your comment.
thanks. I got an answer for this in one of your posts below. Thanks for answering it again.
God bless you Ron
Predestination simply means God choosing us before the foundation of the world and not the other way around we choosing God.
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
lol..it sure helps.
God in his greatness and infinite wisdom is precise in all He does.
Thanks Rob, God bless
How could I be blind to this? Thank God the Bible is clear and there is no contradictions in it. He foreknew, He predestained. This is true. I think in this you have also answered what I had asked in one of your earlier posts.
Despite that fact that God already knows who are His, we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
God bless you Ron.
Before starting this discussion, I was of the opinion that God has chosen all and died for all, and that those predestined for eternity are those who will accept the calling. Of course that is contrary to what is recorded in the 2 verses of the BIBLE you have quoted.
Thanks for shedding more light in this topic.
1Thessalonians 5:9, For God did NOT appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. God, knowing who would and who wouldn’t accept Him, still created us. He also made the plan of salvation available for WHOSOEVER will. I don’t see how this negates the story Bessy told about the train.
It’s a parable that the world is going to burn up but God has purchased a train that goes to heaven. He has purchased a ticket for every single person who ever lived on earth, all paid for by His Son Jesus Christ. Some people say, “No, I can’t possibly accept anything free. I have to pay my own ticket.” While they are busy earning enough money to pay for their ticket, the train leaves without them. Some people say, “Oh no, I can’t get on the train unless my husband or my child is willing to get on the train with me.” So the train has to leave without them.
Some people say, “Oh, I am such a wretched sinner. God could not possibly have meant this ticket for me. It must say my name by mistake.” And they don’t board the train. Some people are just about to board the train but they look back and like Lot’s wife, they miss the train. Some people say, “But this train doesn’t have luxury accommodations. I am too good to get on this simple train and rub shoulders with prostitutes, homosexuals, Sunday keepers and smokers. I will wait for the next train.”
The only thing I would add to Bessy’s train parable is that the train could be heading to heaven and we are 1/3 or ½ or 99% there and I say, “Stop the train and let me off. I decided that I won’t be happy in heaven because Jesus is what makes heaven lovely, and I really don’t love Him after all.” Some people divorce God and do not choose to remain His bride. That is also part of free choice.
The right to board the train is not based on anything I can do. It’s possible only by my taking the ticket and getting on the train. Matthew 21:31, "Which of the two did what his father wanted?" "The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.” It’s not my responsibility to decide who else gets a ticket for the train, or who else gets on board or is “worthy” to be aboard. The One Who purchased the ticket and purchased the train decides that. My job is to get on the train and stay on the train. The train will take us to heaven, not us. That is my limited understanding.
Thanks, Bessy, for this post.
very true Ron. It Got to be Jesus.
Hey, Ron, thanks for sharing your comments on this forum. When I asked the question, it was because we couldn't agree on the other forum. Thank God it is now clear. I was wrong on this.
Predestination is definitely a sure thing. I totally agree.
God bless you.
hey B, thanks for that. And thanks for adding more detail to the parable.
Actually, when I wrote that, I had it all mixed up. But now it is straightened up. Initially, I was of the opinion that all, everyone, is predestained for Heaven and we can accept the heaven gift or not . But Ron said Predestination is a sure thing, it is not variable. I now agree with what Ron said (coz its what is in the Bible), in that, it is predestination based on foreknowledge of what choices we will make, so it does not take away free choice. it is What is highlighted in the verses Ron and Leslie have quoted above is that There is Foreknowledge. as in, God in His infinite wisdom knows who will accept the free gift of salvation. Again, it is Him who chooses us, we do not choose Him. Because when we were lost and not knowing we are lost, He came looking for us.
i think this is also what is in Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
God bless you B.
Thank you for clarifying that Jesus is the train. I missed the most important part!
I have a personality like a Martha. God is always convicting me to be more of a Mary. Mary sat at Jesus' feet and chose the better part. Maybe a body in the pew is okay :)