Adventist Online

Can anybody help me understand, how are we to survive the little time of trouble if we are to sell up our houses? It seems you sell homes during the little time of trouble (Sunday law starts) and when greater time of Jacob's trouble starts (flee into moutains - death decree) so is this what the advice of Mrs White talking about ?               

 

 

EGW QUOTE"Houses and lands will be of no use to the saints in the time of trouble, for they will then have to flee before infuriated mobs, and at that time their possessions cannot be disposed of to advance the cause of present truth. I was shown that it is the will of God that the saints should cut loose from every encumbrance before the time of trouble comes, and make a covenant with God through sacrifice. If they have their property on the altar, and earnestly inquire of God for duty, He will teach them when to dispose of  these things. Then they will be free in the time of trouble, and have no clogs to weigh them down.  {CS 59.4}  (Is this not the greater time of trouble ?)

 


     I saw that if any held on to their property, and did not inquire of the Lord as to their duty, He would not make duty known, and they would be permitted to keep their property, and in the time of trouble it would come up before them like a mountain to crush them, and they would try to dispose of it, but would not be able. I heard some mourn like this: "The cause was languishing, God's people were starving for the truth, and we made no effort to supply the lack; now our property is useless. O that we had let it go, and laid up treasure in heaven!"  {CS 60.1} 


     I saw that a sacrifice did not increase, but it decreased and was consumed. I also saw that God had not required all of His people to dispose of their property at the same time, but if they desired to be taught, He would teach them, in a time of need, when to sell and how much to sell. Some have been required to dispose of their property in times past to sustain the advent cause, while others have been permitted to keep theirs until a time of need. Then, as the cause needs it, their duty is to sell.--EW 56, 57.  {CS 60.2}

 

I get the impression when SUnday Law starts we lives in the country in our homes, as SUnday law penalties get more extreme, God impresses us to sell our properties, to help advance the cause of witnessing, this has to happen BEFORE the restriction of buying and selling occurs on all saints....

The Sunday law increasing in severity from 12 months to 24  months, I am not sure, and I would appreciate in just what are the details SOP has given us.

 

Shalom

Views: 1862

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

I'm putting some work into this for you.  It will take some time and I don't know when I will have it for you.  I also will probably e-mail it to you directly instead of post it here.  

I want you to consider something as you study this for yourself, however.  SDAs ignore a great many biblical prophecy interpretation principles, and EGW herself falls into that trap, then exacerbates the problem by reporting her interpretation of what she was shown rather than a precise description of what she saw.  What I am about to show you now is nothing new.  I have shown this biblical principle on this forum a number of times; it is almost always ignored, and you, yourself, have rejected it as being true in all cases.  I have yet to meet a single SDA prophecy teacher who accepts it as truth, yet it is one of the foundational principles of prophetic interpretation and comes directly from God's mouth, not through symbolism given to a prophet.

In Numbers 12 we find the story of Miriam and Aaron rebelling against Moses and God's direct dealing with this problem.  God called all three of them to the tent of meeting and addressed them all together before punishing Miriam, who was apparently the ring leader in all this.  The basis of their rebellion was that both of them were prophets of God, God had spoken through each of them in the past, and as an excuse, they used the issue of Moses wife, a marriage they considered to be against the law of God.  After they arrived at the tent God told Miriam and Aaron to step forward and said, 

“Listen to my words:

“When there is a prophet among you,
    I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions,
    I speak to them in dreams.
But this is not true of my servant Moses;
    he is faithful in all my house.
8 With him I speak face to face,
    clearly and not in riddles;
    he sees the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
    to speak against my servant Moses?”

The anger of the Lord burned against them, and he left them.

When God spoke to Moses it was clearly, literally mouth to mouth (not face to face), and not in riddles.  By implication the visions and dreams of the prophet are riddles, given to them in symbolism and not plain language.  Ellen White apparently never looked at her visions as being symbolic, with the possible exception of the first few.  She has also quite regularly seemed unable to use many of the biblical definitions of prophetic symbols.  In the case of the time of trouble she has clearly ignored some of the most pertinent biblical explanations and definitions of what it is.  

This should be no big surprise.  We regularly identify her as "our" prophet, not God's prophet.  I've always known that this terminology was significant and prophesied of something important but I was not able to put my finger on it until today when I was listening to a lesson by Stephen Jones dealing with the Nazerites.  https://s3.amazonaws.com/GKMAudio/Individual/Nazarite.mp3  I had all the pieces of the puzzle in the past but until he placed them in order for me today I just couldn't bring them together.  

The office of the prophet had originally been a part of the priesthood. From the time of the judgment on Eli's house and the desolation of Shiloh the office would be separated from the priesthood.  

30 Therefore the Lord God of Israel declares, ‘I did indeed say that your house and the house of your father should walk before Me forever’; but now the Lord declares, ‘Far be it from Me—for those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me will be lightly esteemed. 31 Behold, the days are coming when I will break your arm and the arm of your father’s house so that there will not be an old man in your house. 32 You will see the distress of My dwelling, in spite of all the good that I do for Israel; and an old man will not be in your house forever. 33 Yet I will not cut off every man of yours from My altar to waste away your eyes and to grieve your soul, and all the increase of your house will die in the prime of life (or as men). 

The arm, or often translated as strength, of the priesthood was prophecy.  Because of the corruption of the priesthood the gift of prophecy would be removed from them and given to men (and women) directly answerable to God instead of to the high priest, and the (spiritual) eyes of the priests would waste away.  The prophet is God's prophet so long as he or she remains under God's direct covering and remains independent of the priesthood.  As soon as the prophet submits to the priesthood in any way he or she ceases to be a prophet of God and becomes a prophet of the church.  A prophet of God is generally always at odds with the priests (regardless of what we call them); only when she submits to them does she constantly find herself in agreement with them and with their preferred idols.  

In 1888 Ellen White was still a prophet of God, regardless of whatever faults she had, and there were plenty -- she had enough of her own personal idols that tainted the word God spoke through her.  After she was sent to Australia she wrote that she was instructed by God to submit to this.  I don't know if that is what God really told her or not, and from what I have read she continued to write that the wrong decision was made in 1888 when the denomination officially rejected the doctrine of Justification by Faith.  Yet this submission to the leadership of the denomination, regardless of the great blessings it brought to the world wide work of the denomination, made her fully "our" prophet instead of God's prophet and much of what she wrote did support the corruption in our own priesthood.  

Keep all this in mind as you research her writings for the meaning of these passages.  Do not look in her writings for the proper interpretation, although there are times when the proper definitions are given.  Frequently when they are there she is as likely as the rest of the church to ignore her own words and not realize what they mean.  Just as it is wrong to interpret the New Testament without the context of the Old Testament, especially the writings of Moses, it is also wrong to interpret the symbols used in Ellen White's visions separate from the context of scripture.  

The symbolism of house and land can rather easily be found in scripture and I encourage you to spend some time in the scriptures researching the meaning of house, household and land/inheritance.  It can give you some interesting insights to these things and it will considerably change your outlook on the meaning of what Ellen White was shown.

Furthermore, since this is all given in the context of the Sabbath law you need to look much more deeply into those as well.  As we approach the fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles the level of Sabbath that is most important is the Jubilee, not the weekly Sabbath, and not the Sabbath year.  SDA tunnel vision on this matter is a major curse that will keep them out of the Kingdom and numbered among the foolish virgins who lack enough oil.  The higher levels of the Sabbath still apply in their spiritual reality, and if they are not kept the keeping of the weekly Sabbath is just as much of a useless affectation as the keeping of any of the annual Sabbaths, their associated feasts or the eating of the sacrifices (Colossians 2:17.)  All of these things are only types and shadows of the spiritual reality.  It is time to start learning what that spiritual reality is, in spite of all the past effort you have put into avoiding doing so.

Adventists are very much an Old Covenant people, and work very hard to claim that certain of the Old Covenant symbols, not just the Sabbath, are the genuine article, that all these things are to be taken literally and nothing is to be seen as symbolic.  We have turned these "libations"  into idols (Leviticus 19:4)  -- maccekah can be translated either as libation, a ritual wine or the ritual performed with the wine, or as molten, as in the pouring out of molten metal just as the libation is poured out beside the altar.  When we make these libations into the end instead of the tool God uses to teach us of spiritual realities we cannot see we are just as certainly an idolatrous people as if we built an image of molten metal and worshiped it instead of the God of heaven.  It is time for you to start seeking the spiritual realities, not the physical teaching tools.

Myron, post your reply here please as I would like to read it as well. Thanks.

I may post it here.  I don't know.  I have 4.5 pages written so far, I've only scratched the surface so far, and I already know it is going to offend a large number of people here.  Even though I've just scratched the surface I've already found a major discrepancy between Ellen White and the scriptures on this issue, a discrepancy I've never been aware of before.  I can't tell yet if she has gone off on a tangent and overblown its importance or if everything she says on the subject is absolutely irrelevant because she is not talking about the same thing God is.  Either way its a problem, and SDAs are not open to having their doctrinal errors pointed out, as Ellen White discovered after 1888, and many others have learned since. 

Contrary to their constant claims, SDAs are not a bible believing people and do not get their doctrines from scripture.  They use scripture to support their doctrines, but cherry pick individual verses they can twist and turn to "prove" their doctrine, ignoring everything in scripture that proves their misuse of those few verses, and which casts doubt on their interpretation, or worse, very easily proves those interpretations false.  We are running head-long into one of those areas now, and Ellen White is the teacher who has so obviously misused some texts. 

I can handle myself with the people who will be offended and do everything they can to prove me wrong, but I really don't wish to deal with that publicly right now or in the depth and with the speed that such public discussion is likely to require.

Myron,  believe me, I'm not encouraging you to post.  But don't worry, outlandish theories are posted on Adventist Online every day.  One more won't hurt nor will it generate any publicity.

Don't worry about me, Jill.  This is not outlandish and as with the majority of my stuff is straight out of scripture with plenty of scriptural proof for the interpretations.  SDAs claim as their official doctrine that only scripture is to interpret scripture.  Unfortunately that is very far from their practice. 

I'm well aware of many of the outlandish theories that are posted.  A great many of them come from people who claim to be main-line SDAs posting official SDA doctrine and prove by a considerable number of their posts that they have no clue what official SDA doctrine is, and they have apparently never studied in any SDA schools.  I am quite straight forward about the places where my beliefs diverge from those of the SDA denomination and why. 

Kevin regularly whines that I write books.  I have over 850 posts on this site, most of them lengthy and detailed studies that took a few hours to research and write.  Since most of the rest of these people won't research anything, much less seek to make any determination regarding the actual truth or lack thereof of what they post, much less provide any support for their claims, I am not overly concerned about them being anything more than loud-mouths.  If they would provide studies to attempt proofs of their beliefs I would have to spend even more time in study before responding.  However, these studies always prove beneficial and always result in me learning things in scripture I never knew before.  I wish more people would put in the time.

If God wants this posted it will be posted.  If you had read any of my posts you would know I am not afraid of being controversial.  I'm just not sure this is the time or place for this particular material.

Mryon sounds like Samuel Bach. sounded. He is the prophet and EGW, well,.... according to Myron she fell into a trap. So who is the prophet ? Not only is he arrogant but he is windy arrogant and according to him no body out there really studied but he. 

I think he should just start a thread entitled "Thread for  Bashing the Testimony of Jesus and SDAs. "  We do not even go on Catholic forums and do that.

I sound like me.  I don't pattern myself after anyone.  Why are you so afraid to subject your beliefs to scriptural counsel, the writings of Ellen White and the official teaching of the SDA denomination?  Test everything by scripture, prove everything by scripture. 

Since you refuse to do this you are not SDA.  PERIOD!!!  I have chastised you before for your Catholic teachings.  Blind faith in your pope or prophet is something Jesus and the apostles never taught, nor is your misguided salvation by works teaching which you spew here quite regularly.  You are the Catholic here.

Don't you quote Sister White. I don't want you ever to quote Sister White until you get your vantage ground where you know where you are. Quote the Bible. Talk the Bible. It is full of meat, full of fatness. Carry it right out in your life, and you will know more Bible than you know now. (Spaulding-Magan Collection, p. 174). 

The testimonies of Sister White should not be carried to the front. God's Word is the unerring standard. The Testimonies are not to take the place of the Word.... Let all prove the positions from the Scriptures and substantiate every point they claim as truth from the revealed Word of God. (Evangelism, p. 256) 

The Bible is our rule of faith and doctrine. (Gospel Workers, p. 249)


Don't you quote Sister White. I don't want you ever to quote Sister White until you get your vantage ground where you know where you are. Quote the Bible. Talk the Bible. It is full of meat, full of fatness. Carry it right out in your life, and you will know more Bible than you know now. (Spaulding-Magan Collection, p. 174). 

The testimonies of Sister White should not be carried to the front. God's Word is the unerring standard. The Testimonies are not to take the place of the Word.... Let all prove the positions from the Scriptures and substantiate every point they claim as truth from the revealed Word of God. (Evangelism, p. 256) 

The Bible is our rule of faith and doctrine. (Gospel Workers, p. 249)

Myron, I didn't know your theories came with their own Public Relations Department. Jill gets to clean up the mess when everyone gets offended.

If you decide not to post certain portions…just message it to me.

I hope this can get at least 3000 replies here as is a current issue and have such importance too! I would post it but due my own record in replies is a ridiculous scored in similar subjects I prefer avoid posting and just stick on mere replies if the issue are worthy as this one now here!

Rob,

I've considered these things many times and am always left with unanswered questions.

What if, the powers that be, decide to use HAARP to prevent rain in your country location during the little time of trouble? How would one grow crops on that land? Your GPS location is known as well as your belief system.

If the little time of trouble is only 12 months (approx.), that would only be one season of growing. What about having a years worth of canned wholesome foods? Is this pointless due to the theft issue?

Also, does the sunday law bring on the little time of trouble or does the LTOT bring on the sunday law? How much value will a sabbath keepers land really have at that time?

Do you have more information that you can share regarding the time frame of the LTOT being approx. 12 months? At first glance it seems like a good possibility.

Myron I always respect your contributions, and others will as well. Hope you can help us understand this important concept. You would reckon us SDA would have it detailed by now ?

 

Chad, yes there are many unanswered questions...regarding the length of little Jacobs trouble and greater Jacob's trouble, are you familiar with the Marion Berry theory of faith on end of time events?

 

Sent a email to Back Top Enoch website, Dave Westbrook, possibly the best laymen authority on end of time events.....see his website and audio messages

 

SHalom

 

 

Rob,

I am not familiar with the Marion Berry theory of faith. Do you have a link to some written materials that you can post?

I have gone to the Back To Enoch website a number of times and looked at the sermon notes and some of the written work, but have never listened to the audio.

Does Marion Berry or Back To Enoch discuss a 12 month little time of trouble? If so, do you have a link?

Thanks for the help rob.

RSS

Site Sponsors

 

Adventist Single?
Meet other Single
Adventists here:
Join Free


USA members:

Support AO by
using this link:
Amazon.com

 

© 2020   Created by Clark P.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service