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I am your average blue collar guy that became an SDA a few years ago.  Having grown up in both a Charismatic home and evangelical home I have heard many things about what the future holds all of which I rejected as un-Biblical according to that belief system. Now with a new president I am hearing at least 3 divergent  views by Seventh Day Adventist as to what is going to happen.  I am a little shocked by this because for quite some time when I started my studies, it seemed quite clear when you read Revelations 13 as to what is going to happen with the nation I am currently living in.  You listen to what the Pope is currently saying and what the Catholic church has been saying over the past few years and it seems even more clear.  It is as if most of the SDA church as been asleep and now that there was a shocking election, NOW things are going to happen? They have been happening for many years I just do not think people have been paying attention. Did it take an election before God could act? I find the idea arrogant. I have thought and been taught that we as a church, we need to be ready.

Below is the most balanced view on current events. It is to bad that some do not like Mr. Veith.

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Hello Raymond 

Yes an interesting subject you raise here, let me say at the outset that I was most surprised that Trump did win the election. Such a selfish man only interested in his own glory and most likely what he can gain out of being President of the most powerful nation on earth. 

But as we know the Bible talks about a political religious power taking control of the world and to me religion is not Mr Trump's strong suit. But let us wait and see  what will transpire. As E G White says when it happens it will happen quickly. So let us be ready at all times.


I am telling my age but I enlisted when President Reagan was still in office.  The cold war was scary business especially if you were infantry. I got to go to Berlin after the wall came down. I remember many crazy ideas about Russia from the religious world and I have just heard some crazy stuff from a few SDA brethren currently and Gene posted some ideas on another thread. That is one of the reasons for posting this. The Cold War and the fall of the Soviets was interesting times and I doubt many Bible students saw it coming. 

Everyone in SDA circles should be aware that Pres. Reagan and the Pope John Paul teamed up to bring down the former Soviet Union. What few are aware of is that God used this time to open up the east to evangelism from the west. Reagan did what he did and it is clear what path this put us on as did the successive Presidents and political leaders both on the left and the right.  What is not clear is how Trump fits into this.  He at this point is not a globalist and the elites both on the left and right hate him, nor does he share the Marxist view the current pope does.   The Trump plan seems to be reversing the climate change theory that was putting us on a path to Sunday law under Obama and not elected Hillary.  Trump the individual seems to be not as much an issue as does his Vice President Pence who is has an interesting past. Congress also seems to be something to watch, as they are the ones that make law.

One the other things I have been witness to is immigration. Catholic churches have been active in bringing in Catholic immigrants because the churches here in this area have been failing due to sex abuse scandals and falling revenue from angry Catholics. Catholics and liberals have joined hands and are quite happy that they have changed areas that were all Protestant to Catholic and they openly talk about it.  Even the Lutheran brotherhood where I live has been active in bringing all kinds of people except Protestant persecuted Christians. It has been so bad that it is a joke among locals that the Lutherans are helping ISIS. 

Maybe it is just the work that I do, and the number of people outside of the Church that I talk to, but many Adventists just seem to live in a bubble unaware of things going on around them.

True Raymond 

As I live on the other side of the world from you, it is interesting to see how disengaged most Adventists are to what happens in the world. The Trump Presidency seem to slam the prophetic landscape in reverse gear, I may be wrong as we know Trump is largely an unknown entity. The only thing I know about him is that he is a super selfish hypocrite, and we need to be prepared for the most unusual. 

As I live so far from USA the Vice President Pence is a unknown element here, But as it says be always ready, sadly as you say seems like many are fast asleep concerning what is about to befall the world.  

I think of King Nebuchadnezzar and how God worked with him, also King David.  How would the church and people of this time with their PC sentiments deal with a man who murdered a man for his wife and yet God calls him a man after His own heart.  Reading in other forums you will see that many Adventist have just discovered the man of sin is Trump.  Maybe he plays a part but I do not think it is as dire as some make it.  God is still in control.


America is a great nation, as a matter of fact it is the great nation the bible speaks of.

And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

No one can refute that America is a great nation, and that by it many nations have been blessed. But America is about to lose its greatness, which is it influence in the world; it will no longer be a blessing as it has been. In the coming years, another world power of influence will rise just as the bible has predicted.

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast….17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The  Ghost of W Herbert Armstrong speaks. Seems like Garth you like to mix up unrelated text and make up your own stories. But I guess we will see worse in time to come.


Thank you Gene. I love my nation but in a tempered way.  I have no allusions as to what Revelations 13 is talking about.

Hi Raymond, reading this brought to memory a quote from Ellen White I had just read a couple of days ago, "The work which the church has failed to do in a time of peace and prosperity she will have to do in a terrible crisis under most discouraging, forbidding circumstances. The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith." - which also prompted me to read the whole chapter, .. .. with all sincerity, God help me.

Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5
Chapter 52—The Church the Light of the World

Thank you for that Luis. That is true.  I have had a few experiences because I am now an "Adventist". I can see the heat being turned up as we progress. 

Luis a eyeopening read there indeed. I have not read this before, although what I have gleaned from EG White I have learned that most are not doing enough. Sadly some are to some extent no help as they indulge in the free masons and who know how many Jesuits we have infiltrated as well here?  


The Pope said that the new President deserved to be judged by his actions, not by “prophecies” of what he may or may not do.

In an interview with Spain’s flagship leftist newspaper, Pope Francis warned against rash judgments of President Donald Trump, noting that he deserves to be given a chance to prove himself.

An interesting read there Raymond I found his closing remarks most interesting 

The risk, Francis said, is that in times of crisis we lack judgment and people can begin to think, “Let’s look for a savior who gives us back our identity and let’s defend ourselves with walls, barbed-wire, whatever, from other people that may rob us of our identity.”

Considering that He and Trump will be the main players in the final battle. Almost Prophetic. 


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