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It is my belief that many here have never

had the opportunity to study the condition

of the church from its early beginnings.

So I think it would be a good thing to do

a year-by-year assessment of the condition

of the church since 1855. This assessment

should give us a better perspective as to

where we are now. God bless. sky




From 1855 to 1862


1855: "I have seen an angel standing with scales in his hands weighing the thoughts and interest of the people of God. In one scale were the thoughts and interest tending heavenward; in the other were the thoughts and interest tending to earth. Oh what a solemn thought! The angels of God standing with scales, weighing the thoughts of the professed children of God--those who claim to be dead to the world and alive to God. The scale filled with thoughts of earth, vanity, and pride quickly went down, notwithstanding weight afer weight rolled from the scale. The one with the thoughts and interest tending to Heaven went quickly up as the other went down, and oh, how light it was! Said the angel, 'Can such enter Heaven? No, no, never. Tell them the hope they now possess is vain, and unless they speedily repent, and obtain salvation, they must perish.'" Testimonies, Vol.1, p.124-126, 1855.


1856: "I was shown in vision some things that concern the church. I was pointed back to the years 1843 and 1844. There was a spirit of consecration then that there is not now. What has come over the professed peculiar people of God? I saw conformity to the world, the unwillingness to suffer for the truth's sake... 


1856: "I saw the dreadful fact that God's people were conformed to the world, with no distinction, except in name... I saw that Jesus was wounded and put to an open shame. Said the angel, as with sorrow he saw the professed people of God loving the world, partaking of its spirit, and following its fashions; 'Cut loose! Cut loose! lest He appoint you your portion with hypocrites and unbelievers outside the city. Your profession will only cause you greater anguish, and your punishment will be greater because you knew His will, but did not do it...'


"God will have a people separate and distinct from the world. As soon as any have a desire to imitate the world, just so soon God ceases to acknowledge them as His children. They are the children of the world and of darkness." Testimomines, Vol.1, p.127-137. May 27, 1856.


1857: "The Lord has shown me in vision some things concerning the church in its present lukewarm state, which i will relate to you. The church was presented before me in vision. Said the angel to the church: 'Jesus speaks to thee, 'Be zealous and repent.' This work, I saw, should be taken hold of in earnest. There is something to repent of. Worldly-mindedness, selfishness, and coveteousness have been eating out the spirituality and life of God's people." Testimonies, Vol.1, p.141. 1857.


1859: "The church is in the Laodicean state. The presence of Christ is not in her midst." Notebook Leaflets, p.99.


"The figure of spewing out of His mouth means that he cannot offer up your prayers or your expressions of love to God. He cannot endorse your teaching of His word, or your spiritual work in anywise. He cannot present your religious exercises with the request that grace be given you." Testimonies, Vol.6, p.408.


1862: "The distance is widening between Christ and His people, and lessening between them and the world. The marks of distinction between Christ's professed people and the world have almost disappeared. Like ancient Israel, they follow after the abominations of the nations around them."


"Those who will be heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ to the immortal inheritance, will be peculiar. Yes, so peculiar that God places a mark upon them as His, wholly His. Think ye that God will receive, honor, and acknowledge a people so mixed up with the world that they differ from them only in name?" Testimonies, Vol.1, p.274-87.


to be continued

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I'm not saying they don't mean anything.  Far from it.  I'm saying you are presenting a biased and unbalanced view by choosing only negative quotes.  Finding only quotes that support your own personally held beliefs (get rid of the Adventist church structure)  and avoiding other quotes that support the church is not the correct way to know what the Lord really wants of his people.


Emphasizing perceived wrongdoing from 100+ years ago seems to be majoring in minors.  It tells no one about the Good News of Salvation given to us by Jesus.

Please tell us, Clark, which ones of these reproofs and warnings do

you consider not to be the breathing of

unutterable love?


All His promises, His warnings, are but the breathing of

unutterable love." Steps to Christ, p.55, bottom line.



All these quotes are from the Lord through E.G. White.  I believe all of them are genuine truth and apply to their specific place and time.  Some might even apply beyond that place and time.  We can learn a great deal from them.  But in your posts, you ONLY quote negative warnings about our church.  You never post the about the love God has for His church or His wonderful promises.  So you are presenting a biased view.  That is not how we are to interpret God's will for us.  We are to read ALL and then come to a balanced and true understanding.

Okay then Clark, go ahead, show us how to do this. The Lord gives us a warning and then we counterbalance that warning by searching a smooth statement of peace and safety? is that it Clark?


But you haven't answered my question. Which ones of those statements of warnings and reproofs are not the breathing of unutterable love?



I received a private message last nite asking for the

next quotes. We have reached as far as

the year 1890 in this assessment regarding God's

warnings and reproofs to His professed people.  

There are many more warnings and reproofs before

and after 1890. Warnings and reproofs kept being

sent to the professed people of God until Mrs. White's



When I started this thread, I would read and

re-read the statements. As I read them I began to

realize how solemn is the time we are living in as I

applied them to my own life.They made me feel my

need of the grace of the Holy Spirit like never before. 

Instead of seeing anything negative in these statements,

I saw an opportunity for self-examination and a call for

deeper repentance. I didn't expect these warnings

would be perceived as being "negative". And now

I am told that these quotes are way too "one-sided" and

therefore presenting an "unbalanced" picture of the

condition of the church.


I am being ask to "reconsider" because all I am

doing is bringing "negativity" to this site. I am not

being positive, only negative! Yet  the Testimonies tell us

that God's warnings, like His promises, are but the

breathing of unutterable love! (S.C.55)


I could be wrong but I feel like I am being told,

"You stop what you are doing or else." I have

broken no rule and I have made every effort

to be respectful to all, even to those who

object to these posts as being an "attack"

upon the church!


When one takes a good an honest look

at everyone of these statements, he will either take

them to heart or reject them altogether.

Everyone should be free to read them and decide

for himself.


What do you think?


sky :)


 I'll give that a drum roll.

Excellent John.

Well stated.

We can also be like the fool spoken of in the proverbs

who gives an answer before listening. I am not

done with these posts. Before applying the cure

it is good to know our condition. Personally

I know the cure. My purpose was to present

an almost year-by-year assessment of our

condition as a people and then apply the cure.


But you, John, began to criticize the moment

the first post appeared on the board.


I would like to cover the years after 1890

and then I will share from the same source

what is the cure to all our ailments.


Can I be allowed to do this?




I did mention in the introductory

post that this year-by-year

assessment would give us a

better understanding as to where

we are now and that implies our

condition and then apply the cure.

We are all sinful and will always be till we see His Face at the second coming. That is a given.


But rather than rubbing what we know in our face ... a better solution would be to:


Spend a thoughtful hour each day on the life of Christ.

"Christ is the cure" is a mere "cliché" among us and

in all Christendom.



Of course Jesus can cure from physical maladies.


I am talking about a cure from sin.


"Faith is the condition upon which God has seen fit to

promise pardon to sinners; not that there is any virtue

in faith whereby salvation is merited but because faith

can lay hold of the merits of Christ, the remedy provided

for sin." F.W.100,101.


This is the faith that brings the soul into harmony with God

but it is a fountain untouched.


"Many have a nominal faith in Christ, but they know nothing

of that vital dependence upon Him which appropriates the

merits of a crucified and risen Saviour." 1 S.M.389.


This is the faith of which the apostle Paul says

works by love to purify the soul (Gal.5:6) for it brings the

love of God into the soul.


"God will accept everyone that comes to Him

trusting wholly in the merits of a crucified Saviour.

Love springs up in the heart." 1 S.M.354.


This is the faith that is very little known among us.

How do I know this? For the last ten years I have

had the opportunity to share this faith, not only

online, but occasionally from the pulpit and during

S.S. discussions, and invariably, the same questions

come up, What do you mean by the "merits" of Christ?

Can you tell us what are the "merits" of Christ?



1892: "I saw that Jones and Waggoner had their counter part in Joshua and Caleb. As the children of Israel stoned the spies with literal stones, you have stoned these brethren with stones of sarcasm and ridicule. I saw that you willfully rejected what you knew to be truth just because it was too humiliating to your dignity. I saw some of you in your tents mimicking and making all manner of fun of these two brethren. I also saw that if you had accepted their message, we would have been in the kingdom two years from that date, but now we have to go back into the wilderness and stay forty years." Written from Melbourne, Australia, May 9, 1892.


40 years! It has now been almost 120 years since this statement was written.


We need to understand the past if we are to understand the present and the future.




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