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I have a friend that is not a Seventh Day Adventist, he's an Open Bible should i go out with him. And by extension what is being unequally yoked.  Please someone answer me i need HELP.

 

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Arlena

 

This is a common question.  Commonly it is seen to be just that of church membership.  However, being equally yoked, in real life, has much broader implications than that.  Follow are some examples, that I'm sure will be challenged.  But, these are primarily just areas to be looked at, not specifics.

  1. Of course the big one is whether both are servants of Jesus or not.  No marriage stands a chance if one believes in God and the other does not.  This is illustrated by the athiest and believer being discussed in another thread.
  2. The area of church membership is also important.  It is very difficult for one who wants to worship on Sunday and the other to worship on Saturday, to find cohesiveness in their home.
  3. Even in areas where both are of the same denomination, there can be inequality between the two.  For example, when my wife and I were considering marriage, we discussed our diet.  I told her that I felt very strongly about maintaining a vegetarian diet.  For a while, I was afraid that she was going to choose the hot dogs (her favorite) over rme.  But, I finally won out. LOL  But, it was close. LOL
  4. Size can be an area where the situation should be considered.  Oh, I have seen 6'4" men married to 4'6" women.  But, it does not seem like they have really achieved as close of a relationship that they could.  Or if one is severly obese and the other is slim and trim.  I could see the potential for some friction at some point in the marriage.
  5. Disposition can also be an area where incompatability can occur.  A mild mannered person married to a firecracker can create more than the good kind of sparks. 
  6. Commitment is another major area.  Some people seem to have a very lack approach to commitment, both spiritually as well as socially.  While others are very committed to what they commit to, others are not as much so.  If the gap is too great here, problems will loom on the horizon.
  7. Activity level.  If one person is an "outdoors" type person while the other has trouble letting the sun shine on them, they probably aught to look for someone more like themselves.  One couple I knew, he wanted to travel the world, she did not want to leave the house.  As I suspected, their marriage did not survive.
  8. Education.  This is one that many ignore.  But if one has their doctors degree and the other never finished high school, such a marriage is virtually doomed from the start, especially if it is the woman who has the higher education.  This was an aspect that my wife and I did not consider.  She was a professional Nurse, I had only completed a semester of college after graduating from high school.  Finally, I agreed to return to college and ended up with a higher degree than she had.  Then she felt uneasy about that.  It did not cause serious problems, but there was most the certainly the potential there.  Especially when the change occured after the marriage.  It is like buying one thing, then finding you have something you did not bargin on.

These are just some areas where two people can be unequally yoked.   At no time will  two people be mirror images of each other.  This is not good either.  However, just the differences between male and female is a big enough hurdle for most marriages to get over without adding too many other differences.  Differences can broaden the life experience of both.  One just must deceide before marriage if they can accept that broader view of life, or if it is even something that should be compromised.  Don't wait until after getting married to find out.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

Ray, you are out of order and are being disrespectful to Scott...as a professed Christian, you can handle this better.  If you can't respect a person's wishes then don't post or comment--let alone bring up his business here. The problem is too many here have no idea what it means to minister to someone who does not think like you--like Jesus did-- and don't care to learn.  SMH

Sarah

 

Wow, what an explosion. 

  • Where does "Scott" come into the picture on this thread? 
  • What personal business have I brought up on any thread? 
  • As for dealing with people who do not think like me, I was an LE for a number of years and one of the top ones in the union.  That is not achieved by not dealing with those who do not think like me.  So, you have made quite a number of accusations for which I can not see any basis for them. 

You posted:

"If you can't respect a person's wishes then don't post or comment--let alone bring up his business here."

Such a demand is an open door for Satan to bring in any and every wind of doctrine there is.  Many people are looking for a forum on which they can spread their private doctrines.  From my reading of the forum rules, that is not allowed.  So, have you written to the moderator to complain about this rule? 

 

As I just heard a sermon on 3ABN a few hours ago, the speaker was talking about the final battle as being between Athiest and genuine Christians.  This we are seeing right here.


  • Can you honestly stand before God and recommend that a sister Christian marry an athiest? 
  • That she enter into a marriage from which the clouds will never be lifted? 
  • Where she would have to sell her soul to the devil in order to have any kind of peace at all in the home? 

Is that what you want to recommend?

 

No, Sarah, I have seen far to much of this weak kneed positioning.  Where people are afraid to speak the truth because someone who is fighting Christianity might be offended.  In the miltary, such a response would be considered to be that of a traitor.

 

We have just seen an example of what happens when people are too weak kneed to speak out truth in the Casey Anthony trial down in Orlando, FL.  When we are afraid to call sin by it's right name, the guilty go free and the innocent are attacked. 

 

Either we are for Christ, or we are against Him.  The Bible has some strong language that it uses in regards to those who do not  believe that there is a God.  From courtesy, I did not print those statements.  Yet, those are the ones Jesus would have used.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

The counsel that was given was in order....by the rest of us!   I would encourage you to go back and read them. There was no sugar coating, but there was love and respect (Ephesians 4:15).  It how "we do what we do" and "say what we say".  Whatever you may have done in the past as an LE, there was no love represented---period.  1 Corinthians 13 says that it may whatever merit you may have had null and void. The Bible is not for the non-Christian, but it is for the professed Christian to live by.  That is what, based upon the information we were given, that this woman was and sought to minister to her companion/boyfriend/partner.

 

Accepting the information at face value, Scott and his girlfriend both were not Christians when they met and began dating...and it is a different situation than a person going into a relationship as a professed Christian with someone who is not.  They fell in love, and after several years she choose to become a Christian--meaning she changed.  The principle reference of scripture that Ezra made about staying with someone who is an unbeliever in 1 Corinthians 7:12-17 is in order.  

 

Why?  Even though they haven't had a marriage liscense, they have been have been in an adult relationship for several years, including the physical (implied in his post). Her pastor gave wise counsel and was real about the challenges, but ultimately leaving the decision up to him--which is what the rest of us did.  That's spiritual wisdom and spiritual discernment!  

 

How?  She has a connection with this man that can at some point minister to him and plant the seed that no one else may be able to---and more than likely will not.  Actually, she already has!  As a woman who has been there, you don't just walk away from a personal relationship as long as the person respect who you are becoming and you as you are becoming.  HIS SOUL is at stake and it is a very delicate situation--of which, based on the post, she has been very prayerfully handling very well up to this point.

 

Here is the real problem:  You can't play "god junior"!  You cannot coerce or scare a person into becoming a Christian, and you certainly do not have a right to tell someone that something is not going work.  As a Licensed Counselor, who currently has to counsel people who do not have the same belief system as me, I present both sides and allow the person to CHOOSE for themselves.  This bully religion that some are presenting is a disservice to Jesus--and is certainly NOT what he did!

 

I am personally disappointed how you responded.  We have to remember that the Lord is not just looking for the right response, but the right witness.  Legalism is legalism not just for the fellow Seventh-day Adventist, but for everybody.  Jesus died for the aetheist as well as for those who choose Him, as we all are sinners.  

 

Re-read your post and tell me that something you wrote would have encourgaged him to consider that just maybe he needed to try her Jesus.    

 

 

 

Sarah

 

Remind me to not send anyone to you for counseling in these areas.  Your response is anything but that of a skilled counselor who is current in this field.  Oh, I have met your kind before.  One of them almost broke up our happy marriage with her nonesense.  Finally, I had to take drastic action to counter her ignorance of the great controversy between good and evil.  Our marriage was saved, but I shudder to think of others that she counseled.  One I knew of first hand and her counseling caused a divorce between a friend of ours and her husband who was also a pastor.  She seemed to be focusing on pastor's familes and trying to break them  up. 

 

It really makes no difference, even if this couple has a child together, if they have not made that public commitment of marriage, they are living in  sin, they do not have a marriage.  Just like baptism, marriage is a public expression of a choice that has been made in the heart.  You can attend church all your life and follow all of the ten commandments, but if you are not baptized, you have not extablished a relationship with Jesus.  (Yes, there are some exceptions, but let's deal with the majority.)  So, two people can live together all their lives, but unless they have married, they are just two people living together.

 

See, marriage and the home is a God thing.  This is not a human institution.  It is not just copulating.  Many have been greatly confused by the idea that copulation is equivalent to marriage, it is not.  It is part of marriage, but it is not marriage.  Marriage is when two people make a commitment.

 

It is like a renter.  One can rent a home for all of their lives.  But they will always be a renter until they sign a contract to purchase the home.  A couple who are just living together without the benefit of marriage are just that.  Two people living in a life of sin.  As such, the counsel given by Paul does not apply.  That is for married people, not for two people playing house.

 

Note what God says:

    "Now therefore, our God, the great, the mighty, and the terrible God, who keepest covenant and mercy, let not all the trouble seem little before thee, that hath come upon us, on our kings, on our princes, and on our priests, and on our prophets, and on our fathers, and on all thy people, since the time of the kings of Assyria unto this day." Neh. 9:32 (KJV) 

God is a god of covenants.  When He makes a covenant, he keeps it.  He also expects His children to do the same thing.  but, a covenant is a two sided agreement.  Unless both parties are subject to God, their covenants are not protected, if you will, under the rules God has established.  Just like if I make a contract in Spain, the US laws will have no bearing on it.  The same is true of the marriage contract.

 

Scott knows the answers to the questions he asked.  As an example, Scott spoke of the fact that no other pastor that he had counseled with had any answers.  The reason is most likely because either Scott did not want to accept them or that they were afraid to spell them out.  I took the softest possible way to spell out the obvious and look at the criticism that I am getting for it.  God is not interested in people who pussy foot their way around hard issues.  In all of your counesling, have you never heard of "tough love?" 

 

God's love spells out the truth. Period.  Yes, people's feelings are hurt, but it often takes such a hurt to get them back onto the straight and narrow.  This is why trials come.  God allows the hurt that trials bring to bring us back to Him.  And His wisdom on these matters far exceeds yours, mine and anyone elses. 

 

Oh, I know that the mind set is that if you offend them, they will never become a Christain.  And this is true with needless offense.  However, they will never become a Christian if all you do is agree with them and only tell them what they want to hear either.  There has to be a balance between the two extremes.

 

When my oldest boy was just a little shaver, he inherited his dad's independence.  On one occasion, he was misbehaving in church.  After several warnings to behave, I picked him up and made a quick exit as he started vocalizing at the top of his voice.  He wanted things his way or else.  So, he got the "or else."  When out of the sanctuary, he got a few swats on the posterior.  However, they were more symbolic then hurting, for with his thick diapers, he probaly hardy felt them. 

 

An older lady in the foyer loudly objected to my disciplining of my child.  I excused myself, returned to the sanctuary and I had no more problems from my son.  After the service, this same older lady came up and apologized for her interference.  She commented something like this:

 

"I know that it is necessary to spank the children.  But it hurts so much to see such a sweet little boy being punished.  But I also realize that it is that punishment that makes him so sweet.  You have about the sweetest little boy I have ever seen." 

 

In the case of Scott.  He reacted the way he did because I had put my finger on a truth that he did not want to admit to.  Nor do others who are on the forum want to recognize. 

 

When Jesus met the demoniac who was living in the tombs by the Lake of Gallaliee.  He did not set down and have a counseling session with him.  He did not try to pshycoanalyse him.  He did not attempt to  help him put his life back together.  No, He commanded the Evil spirit to come out of him.  He did not recognize demon possession as an acceptable alternate life style.  For it is not.  Nor is Atheism an acceptable alternate life style.  It is a form of self-worship which is the heart and soul of devil worship.

 

When people sympathize with such people when their real situation is pointed out, it only confirms them in their sin.  Such misguided counselors do far more damage than good in such as situation.  I did not call him names, or make value judgements about him as a person.  I attempted to only address two issues.

  1. The vailidity of his claim of being an athiest, based on his own words.
  2. The wisdom of uniting with someone who wants to serve God.

Those are the ONLY two issues I dealt with.  If others want to extrapulate further issues into my comments, than that is their problem, not a problem with what I stated.  This is how Satan works.  He does everything he can to confuse the picture in order to make it seem like there is no clear answer.  In doing this, he succeeds in keeping human minds confused on important issues.

 

We saw this happen in the Casey Anthony trial, in Orlando, FL.  The defense attorney is a past master of inserting doubt and questions with no facts to support his questions.  Now it is coming out that they did not really beleive that Casey was innnocent themselves.  They were just being paid to help her escape her due punishment.  However, now the court of public opinion has spoken and she is running for her life.  She would have been much safer in jail with a life sentence, than out on the street.  But, she thinks she can lie her way out of this to.  After all, her lying got her off  of a murder, scott free, why not continue it?  This is what happens when evil is defended.

 

You wrote:

"I am personally disappointed how you responded.  We have to remember that the Lord is not just looking for the right response, but the right witness.  Legalism is legalism not just for the fellow Seventh-day Adventist, but for everybody.  Jesus died for the aetheist as well as for those who choose Him, as we all are sinners."  

  1. I am also greatly dissapointed in how you responded.  Even more so than how Scott responded.  His response was expected, due to his expressed motives.  He was trying to get Christians to support him in his attempt to keep his Christian girl friend/lover/mate.  He was trying to pit one Christian against another, and he succeeded very well.  You and others fell into his trap like dominoes.
  2. The "right witness" is telling the truth.  Nothing is gained by coddling sin.  An Athiest is the ultimate sinner.  Sin is doing things our way, contrary to God's way.  An Antiest is one who attempts to live his/her life on their own terms.  It is not a witness for God to console them, try to be "nice" to them. Handle them with kid gloves.  That is exactly what they want you to do.  When they do not get that self centered treatment, they cry crocadile tears about how bad Christians are and how terrible they were treated, just like Scott was doing about those Christian pastors who he had already talked to.  Are you not able to see the pattern there?
  3. Leagalism has no part here.  This is not a case of leagalism, but a case of self centerdness. 
  4. Yes, Christ died for Athiest as well as everyone else.  For in fact, we were all Athiest before we were converted. What is commonly known as an Athiest are just those who attempt to hid behind that label to escape the real description of their condition.

Let's look at how the Bible speaks of Athiest, i.e those who do not recognize that there is a God..

    "In the pride of his face the wicked does not seek him;
        all his thoughts are, "There is no God." Psalm 10:4 (ESV)  


    "The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."
        They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
         there is none who does good." Psalm 14:1 (ESV)  

The Bible tells  us how to deal with such people.

    "Answer a fool according to his folly,
        lest he be wise in his own eyes." Proverbs 26:5 (ESV) 

    "A fool despises his father's instruction,
        but whoever heeds reproof is prudent." Proverbs 15:5 (ESV) 

 
    "Do not speak in the hearing of a fool,
        for he will despise the good sense of your words." Proverbs 23:9 (ESV) 

 
    "Wisdom is too high for a fool;
        in the gate he does not open his mouth." Proverbs 24:7 (ESV) 

 
    "Answer not a fool according to his folly,
        lest you be like him yourself.
    [5] Answer a fool according to his folly,
        lest he be wise in his own eyes." Proverbs 26:4-5 (ESV) 


 Now, back to the theme of how a fool responds.

   

"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."
        They are corrupt, doing abominable iniquity;
        there is none who does good." Psalm 53:1 (ESV)  

     "You are my witnesses," declares the Lord,
        "and my servant whom I have chosen,
    that you may know and believe me
        and understand that I am he.
    Before me no god was formed,
        nor shall there be any after me." Isaiah 43:10 (ESV) 

     "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
        and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
    "I am the first and I am the last;
        besides me there is no god." Isaiah 44:6 (ESV) 

    "Fear not, nor be afraid;
        have I not told you from of old and declared it?
        And you are my witnesses!
    Is there a God besides me?
        There is no Rock; I know not any."  Isaiah 44:8 (ESV)  

     "I am the Lord, and there is no other,
        besides me there is no God;
        I equip you, though you do not know me," Isaiah 45:5 (ESV) 

    "But I am the Lord your God
        from the land of Egypt;
    you know no God but me,
        and besides me there is no savior." Hosea 13:4 (ESV)  

    "Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that "an idol has no real existence," and that "there is no God but one."  1 Cor. 8:4 (ESV)  

The Bible, who is a much greater authority that any Atheist, has a very low view of those who claim that there is no God.   What I tried to do with Scott was to point out, as did several others, by his own account, that in fact he is not the Atheist that he claims to be. 

 

Now, I have met some real Atheist.  In fact, I talk to one almost every week, if not at times every day.  (In fact, he just called me while I was writting this.)  He beleives that he is Jesus Christ.  That is about as genuine of an Athiest as you can get, placing himself in the place of God.  Others that can be cited would include the Pope, as he claims to be God on earth.  But even he realizes that there is a God that is superior to Him.

 

Here is the definition of an atheist.

"atheist n. a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings. atheistic, atheistical, adj. atheistically, adv. - Syn. ATHEIST, AGNOSTIC, INFIDEL refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular religious faith. An ATHEIST denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An AGNOSTIC believes it is impossible to know whether there is a God without sufficient evidence. An INFIDEL is an unbeliever, esp. one who does not accept Christianity or Islam; the word is usu. applied pejoratively."

In theology, when an "A" is placed before a word, it can mean that it is in place of or against.  So, when an "A" is placed in front of "theos," i.e. God, that makes "Atheist," i.e. one sho is against or in the place of God.  So, when one places themselves in the place of or against God, they are a real Atheist. 

 

As for Scott, I still do not accept his self applied title of an Athiest.  It is one that he is proud of, but I do not believe that he is really that.  Rather, he is one who in his heart knows that there is a supreme being, but is loathed to admit it or submit to God.  This is why I expected the responses he came back with.  A real atheist would respond in a different way.

 

So, Sarah, you are really in way over your head on this one.  This is a battle between God and Satan, not a counseling situation.  Such spiritual battles must be fought on the spiritual level, not with human wisdom.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

 

 

 

 

No...It is very easy to "tell a person no"....but a wise person allows them to figure it out for themselves.  Actually, Ray you were not only over your head, but out of order and it shows. Disappointing, but people are human.

As far as counseling is concerned, respectfully speaking, I am happy without your recommendation....as God sends people where and to whom they need to--even now.  let me leave this and get back to them.

 

Blessings! 

Hey Arlena! Its a good thing that you brought this up. I wanna share to you my opinion based on my experience. Ive dated and had relationships with non-Adventist men in the past but they all didnt work out because of the great differences. The lifestyle (they drink and smoke and eat pork and other unclean food that we are avoiding to eat ). They curse... go to clubs... etc. They go to a different church obviously...And when you are in a relationship with a man who is a non-SDA or will date one, you are prone to doing things that we shouldnt be acquainted with in the first place. Im not saying that if you date an Adventist, that the relationship is going to work out thouhg cos I had my fair share of failed relationships with an Adventist as well. My point is if you date an Adventist, you have things in common. First, you share the same faith. And that is importnatn because you can talk to him about your faith and you both can inspire each other to glorify God which you cant do with a non-SDA because he wouldnt understand. Second, the lifestyle. We take care of our bodies. SDA men dont drink and smoke (though there are some i know who does but generally we dont do that)...So in those areas, you dont have to compromise to make the relationship work. See what I mean? I advise you to date an Adventist man and when u are in a relationship with him, pray that the Lord will GUIDE the relationship because thats when Satan is gonna be working SO HARD to make it a failure. AWAYS PUT GOD FIRST. Take it from me. I hope I was able to make things clear for you and help you in any way as far as dating is concerned. GOd bless you girl :)

It sounds like you were involved with a person that was not a Christian....My experience at 42 has been that having a person who is a Christian and is going in the same direction as you is more important. There are people that I know who are Seventh-day Adventists who I am truly unequally yoked with in casual/friendships--even going to church with, and those from other Christian faiths that are more mature spiritually....Prayer is warranted, but we really need to ask the LORD what is the purpose of that person being in your life is.

 

I dated a guy (and later we became engaged) who at the time was agnostic and while we were dating, the Lord used me and he returned to the Seventh-day Adventist Church after 7+ years---and I was not "trying to convert him".  He then, ministered to his ex (years later) and they married.  This was the Lord's doing and His Will.  He would not have listened to anyone but me--and his now wife would not have received the message from anyone but him.

When we live for Jesus, and He lives in us, the Holy Spirit does the rest.  Everyone has a different purpose and not everyone is called to do what I was, but only the Lord can reveal that to us.

Amen to that Sarah! Yes I agree with you to ASK the Lord what a person's PURPOSE is to your life...Its VERY IMPORTANT to PRAY about it. And to your first statement.... They were all Christians.
No, Darell...They all "professed" to be Christians and went to church. =)
LOL. Yes..... 'professed'! Thar IS the right word Sarah! That was what im trying to say.... ^__^
Ask yourself first.. Do you have that strong faith that God will help you bring that someone closer to Him. If your answer is no, then I can't see any reason for you to proceed. If yes, then my prayers will be with you my dear. Having friends with someone that is not a seventh day Adventist doesn't mean you already being unequally yoked.. as long as  you stood for the right and would not compromise the standard God has given us. How could we spread God's word and show others how God intervenes our different lives if the persons were going out with are all seventh day Adventist?

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