Response to...Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings.
According to certain atheist 'friends' of mine. "Science flies you to the moon but religion flies you into buildings."
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Permalink Reply by Travis on
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But Mordecai's "conspiracy" was posted on every bulletin board in Persia. Unlike most wacky conspiracies people come up with.
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Permalink Reply by Carlos on
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It's sad to know that many people, because of their ignorance, will be fooled by Satan's final deception.
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Permalink Reply by rush4hire on
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Mordecai did not form a conspiracy. Haman did. You're trying to say that Haman posted his conspiracy in all the newspapers? He wanted to kill all the Jews without them finding out about it, till it was too late. He didn't publish it. It was secret.
Esther 3:8 And Haman said unto king Ahasuerus, There is a certain people scattered abroad and dispersed among the people in all the provinces of thy kingdom; and their laws [are] diverse from all people; neither keep they the king's laws: therefore it [is] not for the king's profit to suffer them.
3:9 If it please the king, let it be written that they may be destroyed: and I will pay ten thousand talents of silver to the hands of those that have the charge of the business, to bring [it] into the king's treasuries.
Mordecai also prevented the conspiracy to assassinate the king. And it was because of this that he was able to expose the 2nd conspiracy.
Esther 2:21 In those days, while Mordecai sat in the king's gate, two of the king's chamberlains, Bigthan and Teresh, of those which kept the door, were wroth, and sought to lay hand on the king Ahasuerus.
2:22 And the thing was known to Mordecai, who told [it] unto Esther the queen; and Esther certified the king [thereof] in Mordecai's name.
2:23 And when inquisition was made of the matter, it was found out; therefore they were both hanged on a tree: and it was written in the book of the chronicles before the king.
I would recommend you just read the whole book of Esther.
And Travis, learn from books. Don't learn from uneducated people who spend all their time watching football and sitcoms. Learn what a word means. The word "conspiracy" simply means "when 2 or more people come up with a plan to pull off a crime".
And the prophets always expose conspiracies. They do not cover them up. God does not justify the wicked.
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I know it was Haman who was behind the conspiracy.
Esther 3:12-14 says that the decree was sent to all the people in the kingdom so that they could prepare for the massacre. It was hardly secret. If it was secret, then nobody would have known to kill their Jewish neighbors on the 13th of Adar.
And yes, I understand that Mordecai prevented the conspiracy to kill the king. But neither conspiracy involved Nazi pharmacists or equally crazy things. The first was a straightforward murder attempt. The second was a royal decree.
I have read the whole book of Esther, thanks.
...I know what a conspiracy is... Where did I confuse the term?
Thinking that a certain idea is beyond ridiculous is not "covering up" a conspiracy. It's disbelief. I need proof before I start accusing people.
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I don't know anything about the drug testing. But you might want to read that article that was posted.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,406942,00.html
But I'm not talking about that. But you did say "But Mordecai's "conspiracy" was posted..."
The thing is I get upset if people call a "conspiracy theory" a "conspiracy". I can't butcher the English language like that. Ellen White calls Satan a "chief of conspiracy", ({GC 670.1}). That doesn't mean he likes to come up with "conspiracy theories".
I guess it may be possible that those decrees in Esther, where published also in the Jewish towns as well. But you would think they would want it to be a surprise. But I don't think they knew Hamon was behind it. They met in secret, and it was King's decree, not Hamon's.
Esther 3:13 And the letters were sent by posts into all the king's provinces, to destroy, to kill, and to cause to perish, all Jews, both young and old, little children and women, in one day, [even] upon the thirteenth [day] of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar, and [to take] the spoil of them for a prey.
3:14 The copy of the writing for a commandment to be given in every province was published unto all people, that they should be ready against that day.
3:15 The posts went out, being hastened by the king's commandment, and the decree was given in Shushan the palace. And the king and Haman sat down to drink; but the city Shushan was perplexed.
Weird.
He also met in secret with his friends and family and formed a conspiracy:
Esther 5:14 Then said Zeresh his wife and all his friends unto him, Let a gallows be made of fifty cubits high, and to morrow speak thou unto the king that Mordecai may be hanged thereon...
That's a lot of hate.
A similar thing happened in the Holocaust. A similar thing will happen in the future to us:
This argument will appear conclusive; and a decree will finally be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death. {GC 615.2}
When the protection of human laws shall be withdrawn from those who honor the law of God, there will be, in different lands, a simultaneous movement for their destruction. As the time appointed in the decree draws near, the people will conspire to root out the hated sect. It will be determined to strike in one night a decisive blow, which shall utterly silence the voice of dissent and reproof. {GC 635.1}
Do you believe this, Travis?
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Where did I confuse "conspiracy" with "conspiracy theory"? I dislike butchering English even more than you do, so please tell me. When I said "Mordecai's conspiracy", I just meant the conspiracy that Mordecai was involved in.
I think the Jews were aware of the decree. I mean, how secret can you keep a plan to exterminate an entire race? Mordecai may have discovered that Haman was behind it, but the decree itself was not a secret. Even if nobody knew who was behind the decree, Mordecai still could have stopped it. So the conspiracy in question was nothing like "the Jesuits infiltration" or "evil Nazi pharmacists".
Yes, I believe those quotes you posted. Are you assuming that because I don't believe every conspiracy theory I hear, that I don't believe in conspiracies? I certainly do believe I exist, but I'm not willing to believe them without proof.
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Permalink Reply by Przemek on
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@nishaun: I should probably clarify a few things.
1. I am not an American, nor do I generally find Americans any more trustworthy than the Chinese or Indians.
2. I find radical socialism is just as destructive as radical capitalism. Both are necessary in a balanced and well functioning society that cares about the fate of others. Good examples: Norway, Finland, New Zealand.
3. In general, scare mongering by throwing terms intended to belittle people who disagree makes one look desprate and as one with nothing of value to actually say. Shouting doesn't make you sound more intelligent.
@rush4hire: Evolutionary theory is not a useless leech with no contribution. As with all the best lies, there is a large amount of truth mixed in of course. For example, the concept of natural selection is a major component of evolutionary theory that any creationist scientist will tell you is solidly grounded in fact.
Evolutionary concepts have helped to guide biological study in combating pathogens (the theory may be crude but it can often be helpful). The concepts have also been extended to fields like computer science and electronic engineering to come up with novel solutions to problems.
Of course that doesn't mean Darwinian evolution is the truth, there are many problems when you try to stretch the theory this far. However dismissing evolutionary theory in its entirety reminds me of those Christians who insist dinosaur bones are a hoax... who in turn remind me of the flat earth society which to this day claims the earth is flat and Australia is a made up continent, I kid you not :)
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I didn't say untrustworthy. I said, no less trustworhty than the Chinese or Indians. Believe me, the fires down here right now are real. I could be part of the round-earth conspiracy though ;)
I didn't say evolution was a great scientific theory, but elements of it are based in reality and those happen to be constructive to scientific research. Other elements are based in philosophy and assumption and tend to be less usefull (though often not completely useles... generally any kind of framework even flawed, tends to be better than no framework at all).
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Gravitation is also a theory. It can not be proven without the assumption of causality. And the only real reason to have a firm belief in causality is because of a belief in the existence of an orderly God.
Really, any scientific theory comes down to the assumptions you make. This is why the theory of evolution is limited in utility because of some incorrect assumptions (some not all).
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Travis said:
Are you assuming that because I don't believe every conspiracy theory I hear, that I don't believe in conspiracies?
Are there really individuals who believe every conspiracy theory they hear? I guess anything's possible. I marvel to imagine.
Travis said:
I certainly do believe I exist, but I'm not willing to believe them without proof.
Who would believe anything without proof? I'm just curious, Travis. What do you call proof? Take for instance the World Trade Center towers and WTC7. All three buildings came down, supposedly because of fire. The first three, and the only three, steel frame buildings ever to collapse because of fire came down all in the same day. Where are our probability experts?
Do you believe that? Is there proof that it's even possible that a steel frame building can come down by fire? If it is possible, then why has it never happened ever before. These buildings have endured white hot fires for over 20 hours and have remained standing. If you can bring down a skyscraper by just starting a fire, then why do they spend tens of thousands of dollars on demolition experts? Why don't they just go up there and start a fire?
Think of how ridiculous such a thought is. And there are so many other facts, including these few:
1. The enormous heat signature that was there for months after the collapse, which is characteristic of high tech explosives, such as would be necessary to bring such a building down.
2. The "pop pop pop" sound that was heard by over 50 eye-witnesses and caught on video.
3. The 8 second collapse which could only have occurred in a vacuum, such as would have been created by the explosions.
4. The individuals who where murdered, in cold blood, for exposing the truth.
I wonder how much evidence you would need to justify an investigation.
Travis, do you love justice and truth? Or do you love evil men who will sacrifice thousands of our children for $billions in profit? Jesus said he comes to save men's lives. If we expose these wicked men, they will have to think much harder the next time they start a needless war for profit. And that will save lives.
Should we be their cattle?
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You can hopefully find some answers at http://www.debunking911.com. I'm sure that being as truth-loving as you say you will not automatically dismiss everything that any reputable person says.
So, sorry, you'll need better proof.
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