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What does the Bible say about self-defense?"

Under what circumstances is self-defense appropriate?

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I respect your passion Elijah but it would seem you do not understand prophecy.   I have been to battle fields in Europe and in the USA where thousands upon thousands of people died.  Not one of these blood soaked fields were caused by the a private gun owner owning a gun.  These wars and deaths by firearms were caused by government issued firearms given to soldiers in order to do battle and enforce will the will of a government on another government.  In Europe. more than in the US war was used to enforce religious belief or get rid of religious beliefs. 

If you are worried about something then you should look in to what our SDA faith believes concerning is the joining of religious and civil authorities.  The 2nd amendment is just a small part of the rights that will become void as EGW predicted.  Your concerns are misplaced and the blaming of law abiding citizens rather than the real problem shows to me that many SDA are just asleep.   

Mexico to the south of us, a Catholic nation with complete gun control is one of the most violent places, very dangerous. Unbelievable amounts of violence happen there and I hear about it because my step son along with many many family members live along the boarder where much of the Violence happens. Not much is reported on the news.  Who cares.  Not as sexy as California, Hollywood or Vegas. Right?   Maybe if Mexico passed laws against murder they would not have this problem.  Wait they do have laws against murder in Mexico.  They have laws against murder in the USA.  Wow does this mean that maybe the problem is problem concerning morality?!?!?     


We don't bow to the Queen in the same way that you do not bow to Trump Raymond. Also I have loved ones and good friends living in the US, Virginia, Texas(Groesbeck, stones throw from Waco of all places.), Arizona and Calfornia to be exact. so obviously I would be concerned about what happens in the US.

How do you bow to the queen?  LOL

The US president is not bowed down to.  Part of Protestant heritage that still exists.   I know where Groesbeck is.  You must be scared when you visit with all those gun owning Texans stomping around in cowboy boots.

20 years after gun confiscation in Australia violent crime is up in Australia.  Political leaders in Australia can not even define home invasions in Australia, which is happening at alarming rates.  You live in a very dangerous country mate, maybe more laws should be passed.  Virtue signaling is silly.

Thanks for your reply Raymond. Yes, it's clear that war and the right to bear arms does not have any relationship seen from our present standpoint.

The question though remains about the wisdom of the second amendment as it was written in the day of the Muzzleloader and the founding fathers had no idea about semi-automatic guns paired with a bump stock to make it virtually an automatic weapon giving the one who handles such a weapon the ability to fire 100's of rounds in a very short time.

I have not looked into what EG White says about the rights to bear weapons. What I do know is no weapon made by man can stand against the will of God. 

"20 years after gun confiscation in Australia violent crime is up in Australia"

Domestic Violence is problematic but then violence per capita is nothing compared with the US. Many of the people i know, friends, colleagues, church members have been living quite fine with out guns. Even though in this country who staunchly support Trump do not want our current gun controls changed because the benefit of it can definitely can be seen.

Trump currently has no effect on gun control either positive or negative at this time. Trump is living in you brain rent free. Obama increased gun and ammo sales like no other single person in history due to threats to the 2nd Amendment.  You listen to news and popular opinion too much, government combined with religion is what you should worry about, a private citizen with a firearm is of little threat.  

"access to guns with little to no control"

Who is in control?  The pope believes in gun control.

Does that mean that the average american is quite fine with a known extremist to have access to guns and ammo ? I noted a huge outcry for gun controls after the Las Vegas attack. Does this mean that the average American was quite okay that Stephen Paddock had access to so much guns and ammo ?

Stephen Paddock was a rich man, led off course by a Philipino woman who came from a land of terrorism, and was also an Australian National, where there is a hot bed of terrorism.  So, she convinced him to follow the path of terrorism, and played dumb when she came back.  I wonder how long it will be, until she incites more terrorism, or is her mission accomplished.

ZJ-You support "gun control" because you want peace. You have a belief that an mechanical object incites violence.   As I have shown Muslims are now using trucks to run over people. Did the truck tell the Muslim to run over the infidel?   You also have a child like belief that world governments are for the good of people and keep peace.  The Holy Spirit and his angels are what keep peace by restraining men.  Governments cause war and kill people in mass. Especially my nation under the Obama regime help caused the Arab Spring which lead to the deaths of many people and the rise of ISIS. 

Passing a law that makes people who have owned firearms with out violent acts as they did in your country of Australia, criminals, does not make people more moral nor does it change the hearts of a criminal.  Murder has been a crime since Cain. Did God declare that what Cain used to kill able be banned.  NOPE! because that is stupid.   Because terrorist Muslims run down people with trucks in your country should your wheels be taken away?   Again I will ask why does the Pope want gun control in the USA?  Does the Pope want gun control for peace? Maybe he wants it because it would be easier to control the people.  Just my thought on it. 

Quite right, Raymond, you got some common sense thoughts there. The other thing with Australia and America apart from the difference in gun control is the population in America is more than 10 times what it is in Australia. So if a mad Muslim runs down people with a truck here in Australia the chance for that to happen in America would be 10 times greater. But we do not hear of 10 trucks driven by crazed Muslims running down people. So yes you can not compare a very small apple with a very big one.  


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