IN THE ARMY, THEY TRAINED US TO KILL WITH OUR BARE HANDS IF NEED BE.
TRUE. I SAW A DOCUMENTARY ONCE ON THE HISTORY CHANNEL ABOUT HOW MANY COUNTRIES AND THEIR MILITARY HAVE STUDIED THE BIBLE/ISREALITE WAR TACTICS AND HOW IT IS INCORPORATED INTO MODERN WAR STRATEGIES. COOL. CHUCK ONE UP FOR GOD.
I think people have a hard time understanding the meaning of words. The words "self" and "defense" are stuck together and mean defense of one's person or interests Most take self-defense to mean violence with fists, guns, tanks, swords and such, but how many here practice self-defense or to put in another way defense of self. Defense of selfish ideas, defense of ego, defense of favored sins. I know I am guilty. Do we act like Jesus when we defend our self? Defending others (not violence or force) cannot be called self defense because when you defend others you are not defending self. If your neighbor is being bullied and you step in and speak up for that person and / or take the beating to save your neighbor you are not defending self. You are acting the way Jesus would have you act.
We are to always give a defense for the faith that is in us with meekness and fear. But also we are to allow Jesus to fight our battles for us. "The battle belongs to the Lord."
Look into it study it out and find out the answer that is righteous.
The topic is not about fight for land but rather about self-defense. It is a good question, at what point should we say this far and no farther.
Her is an example from the Bible that is not a fight over land.
Genesis 14: 14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.
15 And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.
I know you don't respond to me but may be you could give an out line of scripture.
When have I said I "don't respond to you, Bart? I just did, above, when I said "good point".
Psalm 82:4 'Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.'
Proverbs 24:11 'Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter.'
Psalm 144:1 'Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight'.
Psalm 18:34 'He teaches my hands to make war, So that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.'
Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'
Genesis 9:5-6 5 And surely your blood, the blood of your lives, will I require; At the hand of every beast will I require it. And at the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the life of man. 6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: For in the image of God made he man.
1 Chronicles 28:3 "But God said to me, 'You shall not build a house for My name, because you have been a man of war and have shed blood.'
1 Chronicles 22:8 But the word of Jehovah came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build a house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.
Leviticus 24:16-17 16 'And whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall certainly stone him, the stranger as well as him who is born in the land. When he blasphemes the name of the Lord, he shall be put to death. 17 ' Whoever kills any man shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 20:13 You shall not murder.
Exodus 22:2-3 2 "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. 3 "If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed.
Nehemiah 4 17 Those who were rebuilding the wall and those who carried burdens took their load with one hand doing the work and the other holding a weapon. 18 As for the builders, each wore his sword girded at his side as he built, while the trumpeter stood near me. ... 21 So we carried on the work with half of them holding spears from dawn until the stars appeared. .... 23 So neither I, my brothers, my servants, nor the men of the guard who followed me, none of us removed our clothes, each took his weapon even to the water.
Esther 9:1-5 ...the Jews themselves overpowered those who hated them. 2 The Jews gathered together in their cities throughout all the provinces of King Ahasuerus to lay hands on those who sought their harm. And no one could withstand them, because fear of them fell upon all people.... 5 Thus the Jews defeated all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, with slaughter and destruction,
Luke 22:35-39 And He said to them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." 36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 "For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end." 38 So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." 39 Coming out, He went to the Mount of Olives, as He was accustomed, and His disciples also followed Him.
Matthew 26:51-56 51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear. 52 But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 "Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? 54 "How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?" 55 In that hour Jesus said to the multitudes, "Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs to take Me? I sat daily with you, teaching in the temple, and you did not seize Me. 56 "But all this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled."
John 18:10-11 10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. 11 So Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?"
Psalm 44:6-7 'For I will not trust in my bow, Nor shall my sword save me. 7 But You have saved us from our enemies, And have put to shame those who hated us.'
Nehemiah 4:14 "Do not be afraid of them; remember the Lord who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your houses.... 20 "At whatever place you hear the sound of the trumpet, rally to us there. Our God will fight for us."
1Sam 17:47 '...the LORD does not deliver by sword or by spear; for the battle is the LORD's."
Rom 12:19 'Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord'.
Luke 6:27-30 'But I say unto you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to them that hate you, 28 bless them that curse you, pray for them that despitefully use you. 29 To him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and from him that taketh away thy cloak withhold not thy coat also. 30 Give to every one that asketh thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.'
Proverbs 3:31-32 'Do not envy a man of violence, And do not choose any of his ways. 32 For the crooked man is an abomination to the LORD; But He is intimate with the upright.'
Proverbs 1:16 'For their feet run to evil, And they make haste to shed blood.'
Romans 3:15 'Their feet are swift to shed blood;'
And a salient quote found in another discussion on this on the Internet: "Though we see sanction and even a qualified directive from Christ to possess personal weapons, we must remember three points. First, in the remainder of the New Testament, we have no further examples of believers taking up the sword. Secondly, the emphasis in the remainder of the New Testament is decidedly not geared toward the issues of physical self-defense or righteous use of lethal force. Rather, we see more emphasis on Godly living, suffering affliction and persecution for Christ, and grasping the precious doctrines of Christ and the Gospel. Thirdly, possession of weapons and acquiring the skill to use them in self-defense is permitted but not required by Scripture."
Bart, this is not every applicable text, but an overview, showing some that seem to go one way, and others that seem to go the other way. That is the point of this discussion.
When have I said I "don't respond to you, Bart? I just did, above, when I said "good point".
Sorry I was speak to Andrew I should of been more clear thank you for doing what he did not expand on.
The Bible says:
"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." -- 1 Timothy 5:8
If this is true then where does it state or imply that a man, the head of the house, is not to provide protection for his family from violent criminals that would seek to enter his home and do harm to his loved ones? Is he to merely stand by and turn his cheek as his wife is raped in the presence of his children when he has the capability to use his God given strength and skills to thwart the attack using violence if necessary?