Does anyone have any Biblical quotes or from the spirit of prophesy regarding this? Please share.
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A simple biblical reply to that ridiculous statement is:
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not make trial of the Lord thy God.
Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, Again it is written, Thou shalt not make trial of the Lord thy God.
There is a difference between having faith in Gods plan for us, and being stupid, it seems that u are the one making up ur own tests.
Oh, so you are saying, that you want to oppose all firearm ownership, but you want to camouflage your position on the matter to blend in with those that own firearms. so that you can try to obtain the same amount of protection from harm? But, protection from harm is exactly why many people own one. So, your demand that no one own one, yet your desire to hide your position from the world would seem incongruent. Especially, considering the fact, that in essence you have declared to the entire web community all over the world that you do not own a firearm.
What would you do if your neighbor did this for you?
@Rush,how is Rowan being combative? It is up to each and everyone to decide whether they want to follow the spiritual guidance of the SOP.
It is true that in the last days,Christians will be persecuted for their beliefs. And under no circumstance should we believe to be sealed and have the latter rain if we cannot withstand persecution which means "total humility" just as Jesus did.
If we are to have Jesus' character reflected upon us,then we must take this issue very seriously.
Jesus could have fought back during the crucifixion but He did not .Have you given that any thought?
The point here is,that Jesus gave us the example of the type of character we ought to have during persecution. Not that of a combative nature.
However; this is a slow process. I am not condemning anyone for their decision to bear arms. But this is an issue which each of us individually will have to face very soon in order that we may reach salvation.
Owning a firearm is NOT a salvation issue.
That may be true, but total trust in God forsaking the world, and the idea that we can help ourselves is!
So, you never lock your doors, windows, car doors, or set an alarm? If something bad were to happen at your home would you summon the local law enforcement? Essentially, you would be summoning a firearm to your home. If you did that, would that not be inconsistent with your position? Do you go to a doctor when you are sick?
If you do any of those things, then your above position would be hypocrisy. Now, if you are serious about this in all things, then at least there is consistency.
It kind of reminds me of this story:
"A man was trapped in his house during a flood. He began praying to God to rescue him. He had a vision in his head of God’s hand reaching down from heaven and lifting him to safety. The water started to rise in his house. His neighbour urged him to leave and offered him a ride to safety. The man yelled back, “I am waiting for God to save me.” The neighbour drove off in his pick-up truck.
The man continued to pray and hold on to his vision. As the water began rising in his house, he had to climb up to the roof. A boat came by with some people heading for safe ground. They yelled at the man to grab a rope they were ready to throw and take him to safety. He told them that he was waiting for God to save him. They shook their heads and moved on.
The man continued to pray, believing with all his heart that he would be saved by God. The flood waters continued to rise. A helicopter flew by and a voice came over a loudspeaker offering to lower a ladder and take him off the roof. The man waved the helicopter away, shouting back that he was waiting for God to save him. The helicopter left. The flooding water came over the roof and caught him up and swept him away. He drowned.
When he reached heaven and asked, “God, why did you not save me? I believed in you with all my heart. Why did you let me drown?” God replied, “I sent you a pick-up truck, a boat and a helicopter and you refused all of them. What else could I possibly do for you?”
Again,Heisenberg, you are pushing your ideas and belief on others. While ideas, comments and decisions vary,I ask that you respect each decision, whether it is that of bearing arms or "trusting God". It is up to each person to decide. So please don't try to push your ideas in a manner which is intended to belittle, blaspheme, humiliate or undermine anyone's intelligence.
What you are saying, is you are Rowan should be allowed to push your ideas and beliefs on others. When called on it, you have resorted to an ad hominem attack. I am merely exploring the idea and looking for clarification. Is asking for a defined position so divisive that you must accuse me of blaspheme and humiliation? Would you have me drink hemlock rather than continue asking questions? I am merely looking for clarification of a blanket statement that we must have faith in God and the retort that owning a firearm would send me to everlasting perdition. I think such a position is worth exploring, especially since I have been told my very soul is at stake. I have never said that of either of you.
Though, I do find it most curious the people most ardently opposed to anyone owning a firearm want to be surrounded by them for protection. That seems to be a strangely illogical position:
Heisenberg,as always your remarks advocates violence not only against society as a whole,but for us SDA's.
I suggest you re-think what you are saying.
No, I am advocating defending against violence. Please, I am not some sort of soybean sensitive pseudo-male trying to get in touch with my feminine side. If your intention is to feminize me, it is a loosing proposition. The irony is your words are violent..
Consider them, "blaspheme, humiliate or undermine anyone's intelligence."
I would retort, you are full of violence, at least verbally.
You raise your voice when you should reinforce your argument..
I have been watching this thread for some time and it grows to far too many posts to read, and I don't usually get involved, but this time I might add something, not sure if anybody else has already....
God deals with people where they are, warts and all and leads them into a progressive truth and whatever speed they handle, for you are judged by the light you receive....and live by....
There are many different levels of the will of GOD, and God accommodates different cultures a people where they are in the light they understand....
For example in Moses marriage with women was lightly considered and divorce for trivial reasons rampant, Moses even wrote teachings for this, but was this Jesus ideal for marriage ? No it wasn't....so why was the teaching included ? Because the people were hard of heart and stiff necked...
When the disciples challenged Jesus with self protection they said they had two swords (short fish knives I guess) and Jesus went along with their understanding of culture for that time....question is was that Jesus ideal ?
Mt 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Again the answer suggests Jesus has powers beyond swords we do not understand, that He could have used, but chose not to....
For example, an army encompassed Jerusalem one time and a prophet blinded them, led them into the city, opened their eyes, gave them a feast, and sent them on their way home....
2Ki 6:21 And the king of Israel said unto Elisha, when he saw them, My father, shall I smite them? shall I smite them?
22 And he answered, Thou shalt not smite them: wouldest thou smite those whom thou hast taken captive with thy sword and with thy bow? set bread and water before them, that they may eat and drink, and go to their master.
These passages suggest God has an ideal will, and other lower non ideal circumstances He tolerates in others less trusting in His Name and power.
Can those not following His powerful Name in full be saved ? Yes....but that is not to say they could not open their eyes and increase their faith in Jesus.
I have been held at gun point with a shot gun to my head and I trusted Jesus, and He allowed me to live for another day....So I choose to trust in His power, and train myself daily to increase my faith in His power....
that is a better use of my time, than training daily to use a gun or weapon that requires time, practice and constant use to keep myself in training....my time could be better spent practicing and training myself to call on Jesus Name when that power is required and use His power instead....
Hope that helps
In summary no answer is above or subservient to another....
Live in Jesus as you can, in your culture, Jesus will accept you....
But as for me and my house, we train ourselves to serve the Lord...
May God bless us where-ever we are in life, and however we see things....
God does expect us to work intelligently....
God feeds the birds but they must work in finding food....
God protects us daily but we have to be diligent and as wise as serpents
God gave us common sense, and we should protect ourselves as much as we can according to how you see your life in your faith....
Hope this helps
Some go overboard with the Eden vegan thing....real food, but do we drink Eden water too, and avoid UV rays too ? Balance is a key....
if you feel a need for gun protection, than use one I guess
Is not Gods ideal of faith and His power, but that's OK for you....
We walk in a world of dysfunction and function,
moving along a spectrum of non ideal will of God towards His ideal of power for us, where you are and where you are moving is up to you and your GOD...
My advice, if your going to train yourself in protection, practice the training for increasing your faith and using Jesus power....I have yet to see faith in Jesus that heals sick people immediately...I do believe in miracles, so I suggest we are living in a world of less faith....Jesus said when He comes will I find faith on the earth? O for the days of Peters shadow that caused healing...for a Jesus flow of power like that....you wouldn't need a gun, would you ?
It seems so many are OK with the Government pointing and using guns and are always saying "obey, obey" and backing it up with scripture, but for a private citizen to own a firearm that is heresy. My guns have never been pointed at anything other than a paper target, but the man above has killed many people and innocent people and yet with great hypocrisy people support this man and tell me I cannot own a firearm? Please! Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than any firearm that I own.