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The Health Message is apart of the 3 Angels Messages. It is the "right arm" of the 3 Angels Message, which is the Everlasting Gospel. The Health Message is particularly connected to the 1st Angels Message, which tells us to "GIVE GLORY TO GOD". We give glory to God by reflecting His character and following His ways.

 

*Revelation 14:6,7---"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

 7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

 

...We give "GLORY TO GOD" by reflecting His character and following His ways. We also give "GLORY TO GOD" in how we look, dress, eat, and drink. 1 Corinthians 10:31 makes this more clear.

 

*1 Corinthians 10:31---"Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God."

 

...This is how the Health Message is connected to the 3 Angels Message, through the announcement of the 1st Angel, which is to GIVE GOD GLORY. We give God glory in ALL that we do, including "eating & drinking". This is why God gave His last day church the HEALTH MESSAGE. We are told that meat eating should be done away with and that we (SDA's) should NOT eat cheese or other dairy products. Most of us agree on meat-eating. But many of us have not seen the light on eating dairy products (cheese, eggs, milk, butter, cream).

 

The SOP says,

 

"

  • Pure Vegetarianism/Veganism

1868 "Cheese should never be introduced into the stomach." 2T 68

1883 "All the elements of nutrition are contained in the fruits, vegetables, and grains." HL 96

1889 "Years ago I had a testimony of reproof for the managers in our campmeetings bringing upon the ground and selling to our people cheese and other hurtful things." CD 329

1890 "The effect of cheese is deleterious." CH 114

1896 "The simple grains, fruits of the trees, and vegetables have all the nutritive properties necessary to make good blood." HL 98

1898 "In a short time the milk of the cows will also be excluded from the diet of God's commandment-keeping people in a short time it will not be safe to use anything that comes from the animal creation." CD 411

1899 "The light given me is that it will not be very long before we shall have to give up using any animal food. Even milk will have to be discarded." CD 384

1901 "The time may come when it will not be safe to use milk.... The time will come when we may have to discard some of the articles of diet we now use, such as milk and cream and eggs.... The time will come when milk cannot be used as freely as it is now used.... But I wish to say that when the time comes that it is no longer safe to use milk, cream, butter, and eggs, God will reveal this.... We see that cattle are becoming greatly diseased, the earth itself is corrupted, and we know that the time will come when it will not be best to use milk and eggs." CD 357-9

1902 "Let the diet reform be progressive. Let the people be taught how to prepare food without the use of milk or butter. Tell them that the time will soon come when there will be no safety in using eggs, milk, cream, or butter, because disease in animals is increasing in proportion to the increase of wickedness among men." 7T135

1903 "Vegetables, fruits, and grains should compose our diet. Not an ounce of flesh meat should enter our stomachs." CD 380

1905 "Cheese is... objectionable; it is wholly unfit for food." MH 302

1905 "Grains, fruits, nuts, and vegetables constitute the diet chosen for us by our Creator.... The grains, with fruits, nuts, and vegetables, contain ALL the nutritive properties necessary to make good blood.... The diet reform should be progressive. As disease in animals increases, the use of milk and eggs will become more and more unsafe... The people everywhere should be taught how to cook without milk and eggs, so far as possible, and yet have their food wholesome and palatable." MH 296, 316, 320-1

1906 "In grains, fruits, vegetables, and nuts are to be found ALL the food elements that we need." CDF 92, 310, 313

1909 "The time will come when we may have to discard some of the articles of diet we now use, such as milk and cream and eggs..." 9T162


 

"Let the diet reform be progressive. Let the people be taught how to prepare food without the use of milk or butter. Tell them that the time will soon come when there will be no safety in using eggs, milk, cream, or butter, because disease in animals is increasing in proportion to the increase of wickedness among men. The time is near when, because of the iniquity of the fallen race, the whole animal creation will groan under the diseases that curse our earth. God will give His people ability and tact to prepare wholesome food without these things. Let our people discard all unwholesome recipes. Let them learn how to live healthfully, teaching to others what they have learned. Let them impart this knowledge as they would Bible instruction. Let them teach the people to preserve the health and increase the strength by avoiding the large amount of cooking that has filled the world with chronic invalids. By precept and example make it plain that the food which God gave Adam in his sinless state is the best for man's use as he seeks to regain that sinless state{CD 460.5}"

 

 

 

...The last few words in the Counsels of Diet and Foods appendix, are those of James White regarding the counsels on health given to his wife: "...all changes in diet should be made carefully, one at a time. And while she [his wife, Ellen White] would say this to those who are in danger of making changes too rapidly, she would also say to the tardy, Be sure and not forget to change."

*Scripture says that you are to “Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15).

It is my hope and prayer that you will do just that.

 

QUESTION: Should SDA's Eat/Drink Dairy Products (Cheese, Eggs, Milk, Butter, Cream)???

ANSWER: NO!

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Replies to This Discussion

Freedom In Him: please see my proposal page 62. I think it is a good solution to the problem. Perhaps I should discuss or present less controversial subjects as it appears that no one understands my position, which I still believe is sound regarding the manifestations of holy spirit.

As I proposed below, I think that more positive posts about what is good about SDA would be good. If people get mad and disagree, well I don't have to entertain it or answer it. It is that simple. I believe in building bridges and in the unity of the one body of Christ. I also believe that the power of the holy spirit as I have seen personally over the decades is very much needed in all of Christianity. But if people don't want it or are not interested, then they are not interested, or don't understand my position as these are deep subjects. I have literally spent decades studying and operating with the holy spirit since 1975. I hope you believe my sincerity in this.

The holy spirit field is ripe with controversy among denominations and even within denominations such as the Pentecostals.

My ideas of writing positive things including on the Adventist Health System and areas that you would maybe appreciate that are less controversial I think is a good idea. Some people here like my posts, or at least some of them. I will not answer JohnB's Reply below, nor Elijah's, or Jason's or anyone else that gets combative. 

If you go into an SDA Church and start speaking in a babbling tongue you will, quite rightly, receive short shrift. This form of so-called "tongues" was virtually unknown in the Christian Church until the end of the 19th century and the Bible makes it quite clear that the tongues spoken by the apostles were known tongues - that is like it is supposed to be in the Gospel. (There is a thread on this topic if you want to discuss it further.)

Endlessly repeating your "proofs" are meaningless if they do not fit in with the Biblical pattern. You seem to base all your arguments on likeability - which are ego-based responses. The core of the Christian gospel is that we should renounce ego.

I repeat, the biggest problem is attitude and rejection of the Commandments of God. You fail the test on both of these areas. You speak of love yet do not reflect it. Look into the mirror of the Christian definition of love, do you reflect Paul's definition of love?

"THOUGH I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love in my heart, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love in my heart, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not love in my heart, I gain nothing. Love is long-suffering and is kind; love does not envy; love does not make a vain display of itself, and does not boast, Does not behave itself unseemly, seeks not her own, is not easily provoked, thinks no evil; Rejoices not over injustice, but rejoices in the truth; Bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is imperfect shall be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abides faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love." (1 Corinthians 13:1-13 Lamsa NT)
Without love, you have nothing.

Its basically allowing confusion or outright demons to come in.

James Said.

"You JohnB and Elijah do not hold a candle to them. You two are nasty, thats all I can say. If I have what I say I have, important information and insight into the holy spirit field, then you will have to answer to God for ignoring me"

Strange words from someone who claims to be a super Christian. The Bible says:

 

1Jn 3:11  For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12  not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous. 13  Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14  We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15  Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 16  By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.  

The words you used there are filled with hate. Therefore you are not the super Christian you try to pass yourself off as. You say you have important information about the Holy Spirit. The Bible says:

1Co 6:19  Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20  For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which is God's. 

Seeing you claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit. The fruits you display is not the fruits of the Spirit. to me, they look more like the fruits of the flesh.  

Therefore one can dismiss what you say as not from God. 

Ok, well in spite of pleadings etc. Elijah you are like a dog with a bone..sorry..but you will not let things go and this will continue and continue..well..fight on..I will leave you to it..I will return whenever. Since I have just been informed that noone is there administrating to deal with these things..there is no point me staying while 2 adults carry on like children.... right fighting and people on some kind of self made pedestal. I did not come back here for this.....between different doctrines and fighting etc...again, this is no place for someone wanting to learn etc. I should have known better than to come back.

Sorry to see you go, Freedom. I guess you just want me to turn the other cheek, and say nothing. A thing that I find most difficult. 

Yes, very true no one tends to do any censorship here at all. It's self-censorship and our friend James have scant regards for that, in fact, he disregards any rules here what so ever. He is lawless in every sense of the word. 

 

Freedom In Him: Sorry to hear you are leaving. I get along with most people here and they with me, despite doctrinal/practice differences. Elijah, Jason and JohnB being the exceptions.

I am praying for Elijah as difficult as that is. It is not pleasant to be hated and ridiculed constantly and despised.

I do see some pretty heated discussions between SDAs here also.

I think that differences in doctrines and practices should be discussed without the attacks. When someone constantly says I am evil and going to hell, basically discounting most of my whole adult life and efforts for the Kingdom, it is disheartening. I too am human and can get angry for cause. 

What if I refuse to address these three named above, would that keep you here on the forums? I refused to discuss anything with Elijah for a while. It is difficult to refrain from doing so. But this may solve the problem. He gets satisfaction out of attacking. I prefer friendly and peaceful discussion.

I have a Jewish friend who believes in the Messiah, but he does not believe that Jesus is the Messiah. We have a good relationship and we discuss without arguments. I think that is impossible with Elijah, Jason and JohnB.

If I don't answer their attacks or responses, they will not be satisfied and the fire will not be fanned. Would that keep you here on this forum. I would not like to be responsible partly even in driving someone out of here.

I also have more valuable things to do than to argue and fight. I do enjoy research and writing, but that could be done in a more productive way.

I also have excellent experience with the Adventist Health System and believe that it is the finest witness for the SDA church and plan on making very positive post on such in the near future. I have seen the most wonderful service and attitudes of the love of God and helpfulness in that system, from all levels. It is an excellent corporate culture with a healing atmosphere due to not only the technical medical help, but also the bedside manner etc. I have given them a good review elsewhere on the web.

I am critical of general Christianity in many areas from my research of the Bible, as well as individual denominations, including the SDA. But there are a lot of things I like about the SDA; Sabbath School, Foot washing and the friendliness and love of God I say towards me when I attended for several years a local SDA church before I moved to the mountains. Many of those people are my friends as well as some friendships made here. I have prayed for and with them as well as they for me, and we have excellent fellowships, we discuss but do not argue even when we disagree. It stays friendly and loving.

Some of the finest people I have met are SDA members. I have a high regard for their character and respect them even though we may differ in some areas of doctrine and practice. Elijah does not seem to have the capability of friendly discussions despite differences.

Please reconsider your decision to stay. I think my solution is of God and will help alleviate the tensions and atmosphere that is not healthy here. I frankly do not like the confrontational and hateful atmosphere. I need to stay positive and upbeat. 

Give it a go, see if it works. If anyone else gets nasty with me, I will ignore them also. We are supposed to seek peace and love and a soft answer (or no answer in my case) turneth away wrath.

God bless you Freedom In Him. Please don't go. I am offering the olive branch per se and I want the combativeness to cease also.

Says the main combatant. 

Freedom In Him, before you leave - if you haven't left already - I would ask that you give some more time for the Spirit to work. It has been good to see an old "face" return to the group and you have contributed to this site since your return.

Sometimes we have to be longsuffering. I understand the frustration and I also take breaks from the site to get away from the bad attitudes that are shown. It is sometimes hard to see a humble Christlike spirit at work here. There are some who find it almost impossible to self-moderate (or apparently make no attempt to do so) and it is this constant lawless, holier-than-thou, attitude that is so destructive. How unlike the meek and lowly Saviour that we all claim to represent.

We all suffer from allowing self to rise up at times, it is, after all, the human condition that we strive to overcome. So, I do ask that you relent, for now at least. The more voices of moderation that we have, the better this site can be. I often doubt that this site can return to the way it was a decade ago - but even then, there has always been strife on this board. I believe that because of the diminished numbers it has increased and perhaps has shown that the owner of the site was right to leave it to its own devices albeit without moderation.

Perhaps you can give us a little more "probation time" before you depart?

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